Derryn Hinch, as part of an interview, said he was not concerned about the two Australian drug smugglers in Indonesia. He gave a "double standard" response to their killing in my view.

You can hear his "double standard" views at: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/video/id-R2eGNyczo8DCsG4ogPdvQQQIvCp6aiM8#itm=adv%7Chome%7Ccontent-2%3Anarrow-heading%3Ashowcase-video%7C3%7Cheading%7Chomepage%7Chomepage&itmt=1425555972952

He says: "your'e either against it (sounds like) 'impidly' (entirely) for everything or your'e not." (Re killing) - referring to a country and its laws. Another "double standard".

I say "double standard" being vegetarian. Derryn, animals are being killed, daily for 'human consumption' suffering extreme violence - when they don't have to. Are you Darryn, against killing (entirely) in terms of the laws of a country, or are you against killing in principle?

I believe no killing = no violence. Maybe it's time to be a bit more respectful Darryn and not kill these people? No more "double standards" please.

Dear Nathan,

Not only is there a double standard - there are in fact multiple standards.

In the highest standard (which I do not follow), you don't hurt a fly, not even a mosquito or a snake which are about to bite you.

Which standard to follow is personal and much depends upon one's level of spiritual progress. Being vegetarian for example, which I too am, is not for everyone, though I would expect almost everyone to avoid killing animals for fun.

One should therefore differentiate between what one does in person, according to one's own standard versus what others do according to their own standards. Certainly you and I would refuse, even on threats of being killed ourselves, to participate in Indonesia's firing squads, but that doesn't make those who do participate wrong - only different.

Nathan, you may interested to learn Hitler was a vegetarian and the Dali Lama eats meat.

You cannot judge anyone by what they eat or expect the world's population to follow one way. Your choices are for your personal life journey, others have a different path. All roads lead to Nirvana (some just take longer to arrive).

I am opposed to the death penalty, and find Indonesia's actions both barbaric and inhumane.
The stance taken by Tony Abbott and Julie Bishop, both personally and at a governmental level, in relation to the pending executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran along with several others is deserving of praise.
Derryn Hinch, the human headline, with his usual pitch to the bottom feeders in society is worthy of our strongest condemnation.

G'day there PAUL1405...

In principle I couldn't agree with you more on either of your views. Mr HINCH does try to generate a headline or two, purely to enliven his fading media image I suspect ? His only stance that I support unconditionally is his strong views on crimes against children.

I accept Indonesia does have the sovereign right to render any punishment for crimes against their statutes, by however mean's they wish. It doesn't mean we have to agree with them, notwithstanding how bad these two drug runners are. Why not lock 'em up indefinitely, that would send a very strong message to other potential drug runners. Life without any possibility of parole - in an Indonesian 'gaol'? Emmmm?

ConservativeHippie,

The vegetarian argument re Adolf Hitler was nothing more than propaganda campaign put up by his direct associates (at the time) of his rule, to improve his perception and image, in terms of Mr Hitler being a strong leader, and as a promoter of peace.

He did eat vegetables at times, just like a lot of other people did, and do now. He still ate non-vegetarian foods, on a regular basis such as Bavarian sausages, ham, liver,game and other meat products. He was therefore not vegetarian (in principle) - and ate some vegetarian foods for health reasons - later in life.

Adolf Hitler did not believe it was wrong to kill animals and look at he had done to the human species - in terms of animals - this was not positive - and that is an understatement.

In the Derryn Hinch interview, Darryn is asked if he would agree with the proposed (killing in Indonesia) and if it was to be put onto one of his children - he directly didn't answer the question - a "double standard" in terms of of human life.

NathanJ,

The interview you refer to was yet another case of the media interviewing the media and making news.

All a part of the 24hr news cycle where speculative gossip is the order of the day. TV channels are using their own 'personalities' (got to laugh at the pretentious us of 'personality' to make news. An example could be the TV channel that had its own presenters' reactions (scripted no doubt) to the Martin Place hostage crisis as the 'news' for the day - make that days.

There is no need to be a part of the circus. The baying mobs manipulated and led by the media.

What about getting your teeth into government mandated indigenous hunting methods that are devastatingly cruel to marine turtles and Dugongs? Just Google.

Harpooning the gentle creatures and cutting parts off to incapacitate the turtles to 'store' them for when needed.

-where the government mandates cruelty for gentle giants in Australia.

OTB,

You might find this interesting/strange

"11. In the development of framework agreements to facilitate treaties and other formal agreements that recognise the inherent rights of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island peoples in New South Wales;"

it's from the Greens NSW policy statements.

I wonder what traditional rights Torres Strait islanders had with the NSW tribes, one would think that the mobs in what is now NSW wouldn't have traveled far enough north to be considered traditional Island enemies/tucker.

Is Mise,

The Greens are about narrative. Facts, numbers, only get in the way.

Guy's most of them probably think the Torres Strait near Wollongong somewhere.

Or for another take on narrative https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5OlBT2OcGg

R0bert

Yes, lets condemn indigenous for what by our standards are devastatingly cruel hunting methods of marine turtles and Dugongs. Closer to home, unfortunate some voices such as the Shooters and Fishers Party NSW were deafeningly quite when Greens MLC John Kaye recently exposed the entrenched cruelty of the Greyhound Industry in this state. The barbaric baiting of dogs with live rabbits, possums and even piglets. Not content with the torturous treatment of defenseless animals, these greyhound types in their never ending pursuit of a fast buck from dogs, force these poor animals to "race" in packs around a track at break neck speed, often the poor animasl suffer horrific injuries, broken bones, torn muscles and even death, all for a so called "sport"! If a poor unfortunate greyhound should be deemed too slow to race, or its racing days are over, the dog is often disposed of with a bullet to the head, possibly a quick death, but at other times an agonizingly slow death awaits the unfortunate animal. It has been known for some slow dogs to be clubbed to death to save a bullet, Where were the Two Bobs from the Shooters and Hooters Party when John was exposing this vile "industry", most like down at Wenty having a punt, and rubbing shoulders with their "industry" cronies!

Beach where do you and Joe stand on this one?

http://www.greyhoundcruelty.com/

Paul1405,

As you know from previous replies I am not and have never been a member of any political party.

So you are just going to have to address the facts of government-sanctioned cruel, unsustainable indigenous killing of sea turtles and Dugong.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northern-territory/dugong-deaths-on-par-with-whales-activist/story-fnk0b1zt-1227038321516

Of course the cruel practices don't only apply to Dugong and sea turtle, do they?

The double standards of political correctness and indigenous politics in our own backyard.

As for Australia's so-called 'strong laws' and 'strong law enforcement', not only is a blind eye turned courtesy of the policies of multiculturalism but the laws can even mandate for the cruelty to occur.

The same happened with ritual slaughter and is still happened. All hidden under the rug and nothing said, then a shocked, "We didn't know" (Yeah, right!) from BOTH sides of government. However SFA is done and it all continues. All because the political correctness of indigenous politics and multiculturalism and to buy vote margins in contested electoral seats.

The arrant hypocrisy of activism. -Speaking of which, the Greens are in it up to their ears.

Conservativehippie,

You can view a youtube titled "What Did the Buddha Say About Eating Meat" at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSjKt3fSziM where a Buddhist monk attacks vegetarians, with a lot of his arguments, verging on strange, crazy, hypocritical and bizarre.

Being vegetarian what have I done wrong? I keep my killing as low as possible. I had put down in my high school newsletter that I would be running an insect welfare shelter - as a joke by the magazine committee. Please note, I don't like killing insects - but am I about to kill two people in Indonesia - and leave their parents permanently damaged mentally and emotionally for the rest of their lives? No.

My dad worked in a meatworks. I honestly don't how he or any other of the workers in the factory did the work required. An animal alive one minute and killed the next.

Sorry Mr Hinch - but saying the Prime Minister has spent too much time trying to address this issue is unfair - or I could easily lecture you to bits (on a chopping block) - about the meat industry. I would assume you eat meat, so let the Prime Minister get on with trying to save these people's lives.

Beach,

Read your article from the 'NT News' and I'll have to bow to the superior knowledge of Colin Riddell on the subject of dugongs. Unlike you who has superior knowledge on everything, including dugongs, and without hearing anything from the other side of the argument I'll go along with Mr. Riddell for now.

How about the greyhounds, no comment?

Paul405,

Your red herrings never work. It is obvious that the hypocritical NSW Greens are choosy as to what animal cruelty they sensationalise, or ignore.

The cynical Trotskyist 'Watermelon' Greens, see-through green on the outside but Marxist red all of the way through, routinely support the political correctness of extreme multiculturalism that ignores and even mandates cruelty to animals.

Harpooning and taking two hours to drowning a Dugong to death, or taking the preferred pregnant females, or cutting off the flippers of sea turtles and placing them on their backs to 'store' them for consumption later that could involve removal of prized body parts while alive, are practices that were known to the Anna Bligh Labor government and Labor (with Greens preferences support) introduced the responsible law that mandated cruel slaughter to happen.

As for greyhound racing, it is not something I support for many reasons, of which animal cruelty is just one. Whereas the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens are hitching a ride on merely one aspect of cruelty in the industry to get headlines and ignoring everything else.

The NSW 'Watermelon' Greens policy is to increase the aerial drops of cruel and dangerous 1080 poison in State and national parks. 1080 is a horrific poison that affects non-target animals as well. The Greens are hypocrites and more so for their ignorance and overbearing arrogance.

Australian 1080 poison (NZ footage)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrCQZ1B4ks0

Paul,

As you are a Green and know the difference between a policy statement and a media release, perhaps you could explain the meaning of Policy Statement 11. "In the development of framework agreements to facilitate treaties and other formal agreements that recognise the inherent rights of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island peoples in New South Wales;"

In particular how Torres Strait Islanders have traditional rights in NSW.

Hi there IS MISE...

Now that is an interesting question;...'how Torres Strait Islanders have traditional rights in the state of New South Wales...' ? It very nearly slipped through to the keeper ?

Beach you are all over the shop on this animal cruelty issue, everywhere from the Northern Territory to New Zealand, always pitched with some stinging diatribe against The Greens. On another thread you were lampooning The Greens for failing to win even one seat in Queensland and on this one you are crediting them with legislation in that state re credulity to dugongs and turtles. I don't believe you give a rats about crudity to animals and have singled out indigenous hunting as it presents another vehicle to attack non whites in our society, peppered with your usual anti Green stance.
You had little to say about the greyhound industry and their friendly and supportive polititions. What do you have to say about how unborn calves are slaughtered in the dairy industry and their friendly and supportive polititions in the National and Liberal Parties?

http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html

Care to comment before you put the milk on your next bowl of 'Coco Pops'.

Is Mise

Take note of how detailed Greens NSW policies are, the most detailed of any party contesting the up coming election, unlike some so called parties, The Shooters and Hooters Party for one, you could wright all their policies on the back of a postage stamp! "If it moves shoot it". Liberal and Labor are not much better.
As for Torres Straight Islanders in NSW. Pop into a certain pub in Redfern and you can have a drink with 'Willie' a TSI. I much prefer the term Indigenous.

Paul,

"Take note of how detailed Greens NSW policies are, the most detailed of any party contesting the up coming election, ...."

Detailed, yes, and absolutely unfunded.

But that aside, kindly answer the question posed by Policy Statement No. 11.

Is Mise, I am appalled! You would rather nit pick a one liner from The Greens yet remain totally silent on the cruel and vile goings on in the so called Greyhound Industry in NSW. The Shooters Party, a party that in my view supports animal cruelty by supporting 'Rambo' recreational shooters in National Parks, frequented by families and children.
Why don't you step up and condemn this barbarity, or like the 'Two Bobs' are you giving it your support through silence?

Paul,

It's not nit picking, I really would like to know how the Greens see that Torres Strait Islanders (all of the Islanders not just the 'straight' ones that you seem to single out*) have any traditional rights in NSW.

Just answer the question.

As for the dog racing industry the sooner it is phased out the better but with due regard for jobs and legal investment.

*Perhaps an investment in 'Spell Check'?

"Add Spell Checking to virtually any text box on your web site. Visit www.webspellchecker.net for details".

Ha, ha, ha, a typical conservative, putting profits before every thing else! <<but with due regard for jobs and legal investment.>> What a cop out. In other words keep that cruel bastardy industry going there is a quid to be made, as I said a typical conservative.

Unlike you who is more concerned with pennies in the pocket, I would rather make 1,000 spelling mistakes if it saved just one poor animal from these vile people. Got that straight!

Paul,

Do please answer the question and I am appalled that you consider the 11th of the NSW Greens Policies to be a 'one liner'.

Unfortunately there is not a "comprehension Check" that you could install; my desire to see the dog racing industry phased out is hardly a desire to keep it going.

It would seem that you are letting your emotions, laudable as they are in this case, spur your typing finger rather than your brain guiding it.

@Paul1405, Saturday, 7 March 2015 12:47:17 PM, "unborn calves are slaughtered in the dairy industry"

I very much doubt the authenticity of that report. It would not be the first time that animal liberation activists have put up fabricated and staged evidence.

However, in the very unlikely event that a cow foetus is killed in a legal works in the West (much less Australia), would that be any less moral and involve less suffering for the foetus than the legal aborting of a human foetus?

Annually there are thousands of legal abortions. So I take it that you and the Greens are similarly opposed to that?

It is typical of the Leftists that they no longer know what they are for, only what they are against, which is usually the well-functioning Western societies of which they are part. They are haters. Ethics present huge dilemmas and conflicts for the Greens who do the ostrich of course and resort to name-calling.

"unborn calves are slaughtered in the dairy industry"

<<I very much doubt the authenticity of that report>> Why, because it does not sit well with your thinking, and it could cause indigestion for some as they enjoy their milk and cornflakes in the morning.
The conservative attitude came to fore when the shocking revelations of cruelty to cattle in Indonesians slaughterhouses was exposed. They were far more concerned about financial loss of a few cow cocky's than the suffering of the poor animals at the hands of the Indonesians.

Is Mise, are you a punter, possibly liking a few bob on the doggies now and then? Yes totally agree don't let emotion get in the way when there is a quid to be made. Sunday, a favorite morning for trialing greyhounds at trial tracks, how many rabbits (possums cost more) were tied to the arm and flung around the track with dogs in pursuit today? Their final moments spent being torn apart by blood thirsty dogs as their handlers watch, standing there with their chargers on a lead. What is the Shooters Parties policy on this unabated cruelty? Let me see, oh yes DO NOTHING, SAY NOTHING, TURN A BLIND EYE!

Paul,

Just answer the question and comprehend peoples posts

"Unfortunately there is not a "comprehension Check" that you could install; my desire to see the dog racing industry phased out is hardly a desire to keep it going."

What's more I don't gamble at all, dogs, horses, two-up or the stock exchange.

"phased out", a very general term is it not, "phased out" over 25 years, or is that 50 years. Whilst the daily cruelty continues in this barbaric business. To my knowledge governments of both persuasions have known of the deeds of this vile enterprise for at least 50 years and are yet to take action to phase it out, as per your thinking. No comment on the 'cone of silence' from the Shooters on this very serious matter. Instead content to nit pick the trivial.

When you typed comprehension Check, the 'C' in Check should have been lower case, thus 'c' as the word in this instance is not a proper noun and does not require a capital c. I strongly suggest the installation of a "grammar checker" on your part to assists your poor English. I fully understand English for you may well be a second language. Nit picker!

The clear difference is that the Greens have set themselves up as the moral guardians for everyone else, but they turn a blind eye towards and shield obvious, longstanding cruel abuse of animals occurring in their own backyard.

Speaking of the Greens' own backyard, why for example do the Greens shie away from a ban on ritual slaughter in Australia? Yet they demand a cessation of live exports. They play both ends against the middle. The want the animal welfare vote while appealing to the Muslim vote as well, huh?

Then there is the awful cruelty of indigenous treatment and slaughter of native animals? Sea turtles and Dugong are examples of a broader problem. However the Greens are highly vocal about whales and Bob Brown, the self-annointed president of the New World Order (of international socialism) joined the Sea Shepherd outfit to protest.

The Greens are lobbying for helicopter drops of 1080 poison in State forests and national parks to kill magnificent deer, just to spite the trained, government licensed and monitored recreational hunters who do the job for free for the venison - not to sell, but to put on the family table as free range, pesticide-free meat.

1080 poison supported by the Greens
http://ban1080.co.nz/1080-facts/

-When are the NSW 'Watermelon' Greens putting proposed bill up in NSW, Paul1405?

The Greens is NOT a legitimate political party at all. It is all a sham - just a protest party taking advantage of the young and easily led first time voters, disaffected political fringe dwellers and self-interested rogues who take advantage of the 'isms' including multiculturalism to fleece the taxpayer.

That green on the outside is a wafer thin veneer, but the deep red Trotskyism goes all of the way through.

Paul,

"To my knowledge governments of both persuasions have known of the deeds of this vile enterprise for at least 50 years and are yet to take action to phase it out....."

How long have the Greens known about it and when did they first protest? (please include a reference).

"When you typed comprehension Check, the 'C' in Check should have been lower case, thus 'c' as the word in this instance is not a proper noun and does not require a capital c. I strongly suggest the installation of a "grammar checker" on your part to assists your poor English. I fully understand English for you may well be a second language. Nit picker!"

When I typed Comprehension Check I was referring to something that does not exist, so as it was my 'invention' I used a capital 'C', poetic licence; merely shewing my literary adaptability.

"....Instead content to nit pick the trivial."

So we are finally agreed on something,
Policy Statement 11 of the Greens' current manifesto is trivia; but you still haven't answered the question.

Beach, your anti Green tirades are understandable from one sitting on the extreme right of the political spectrum. Now you are claiming The Greens are not a legitimate political party, I and the Electoral Commission beg to differ. You do not fool anyone with your claims of no political affiliation when it is clear to the contrary. Do you have any more examples of non-white animal cruelty?

Is Mise, the Shooters with their mean streak of animal cruelty coursing through their veins have been caught out on this one.

Paul,

C'mon, answer the question and it should be easy as,as you say, Policy Statement 11 is just trivia.

How about telling us when the Greens first became aware of cruelty in the dog racing industry?

Was it only recently?
Which would shew that they have had their collective heads buried in the sand.
Or if they have known about it since 1991, when the NSW Greens took their current form, why did they take so long to raise the matter, or are they, as usual, just jumping on the band wagon?

Paul1405,

The Greens is a registered as a political party.

However most people and certainly Julia Gillard who was unfortunately hobbled with the treacherous Greens would judge the Greens by their behaviour, ie as a protest party. The Greens themselves say they don't want to be responsible and accountable for government. They just want to stand on the sidelines criticising.

So it is as simple as, the Greens are a protest party nothing more and its supporters only know what they oppose, not what they support - out of a free guvvy hand-out that is, and a free go for drug-dealing outlaw motorcycle gangs.

<<The Greens themselves say they don't want to be responsible and accountable for government. They just want to stand on the sidelines criticising.>>

Beach, show me where The Greens have said that, RUBBISH! You will say anything. You simply make up lies to suit your pathetic argument.

Is Mise, how do you SHEW something, do you shew the flys away, or do you shew the sheep of their wool! How do you SHEW?

Now about that spell checker you recommend! RMOALOL. People in glass houses ha ha ha.

Paul,

"Is Mise, how do you SHEW something, do you shew the flys away, or do you shew the sheep of their wool! How do you SHEW?

Now about that spell checker you recommend! RMOALOL. People in glass houses ha ha ha."

Verb: shew, to show (alternative spelling)
shew, shewed, shewing.

Noun: shew, a show.
shewer, one who shows.

'Shewing' is commonly used by the NSW Mapping Authority, can be found in the information on their maps in the form of"....shewing [feature] thus" or similar.

Take consolation, Paul, you are not the first 'Corrector of English' to fall into this trap, other forums have their fair share.

May I recommend Google.

Is Mise, you brought up the subject of spell checkers, did you not.
Yep, down at the Mapping Department even second word is SHEW! This morning I couldn't get my left shew on. What do you say to that?

"Which would shew that they have had their collective heads buried in the sand."

Do you think I came down in the last shewer? You meant to type SHOW not SHEW, we all make typos at times.

So we can fright animal cruelty in the likes of the greyhound business let hope the 'Two Bobs' become the 'One Bob' after the State Election and four years hence there are 'No Bobs' in the NSW Parliament to act as apologists for cruelty to animals, in the form of recreational shooting!

Paul,

I deliberately used 'shew' as I was sure that you would shew that you could be sucked in; and become another scalp to shew.

Is Mise, i'll be straight up, and straight to the point! Yes I made a mistake with the word Straight as in Torres Strait. Unlike you I am big enough to admit my mistake and do not retreat to some mythical dictionary, or obscure government department in a forlorn attempt to hide my error. A pathetic attempt at best to change the subject.

Back on subject. As a 'recreational shooter' like the 'Two Bobs' you would be well equated with animal cruelty, having inflicted enough of it yourselves on poor defenseless creatures of the Forrest. Shame, shame, shame. I ask, have you personally shot a koala, like Blinky Bill, or is that one trophy that still alludes you? Ever wanting to fill that space on the wall between Bambi and Little Peter Rabbit with poor Blinky! I just hope children are not reading this thread.

What about we getting tough, real tough, on the vile cruelty that is the greyhound business? I say disband it immediately without compensation, and turn Wentworth Park and all other dog tracks over as places of refuge and rehabilitation for animals that have been injured by this and other barbaric businesses! Later on they could become an idyllic oasis of peace and harmony, populated by animals with no fear of the scourge on them, and society, that is recreational shooting!

Paul,

Rather a pathetic post but as you won't tell us all when the Greens first protested about dog racing then we will have to assume that the latest is just jumping on the band wagon as usual, at least this time it's not lies.

Ref. Mythical Dictionaries

"HOME BRITISH & WORLD ENGLISH

SHEW

shew
Pronunciation: /&#643;&#601;&#650;/
Definition of shew in English:
verb

Old-fashioned spelling of show...."

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/shew

The only trophies that I keep are moral ones, like your recent posts.

Is Mise since you are into Old English, you will be interested in what Geoffrey Chaucer (1340-1400) had to say on the subject. In Chaucer's day it was bear baiting and cock fighting, two "sports" I'm sure you are only to familiar with. Are you a participant?

"WHAN that Aprille with his shoures soote
The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,
And bathed every veyne in swich licour,
Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
Whan Zephirus eek with his swete breeth
Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
The tendre croppes."

Is that all clear?

What is very clear, Paul, is that thou shewest no signs of answering the questions.

Is Mise now that you are demanding we communicate in Old English, I have a problem. Can we make it simple and talk to each other in good old Swahili a language I'm sure we both understand, make a change from your regular Double Dutch.

I'll get the ball rolling 'Is Mise, hamjambo, gari langu linaloangama limejaa na mikunga."

loose translation in case you missed it. "Hallo Is Mise, your boat is full of eels."

Paul,

You're coming on, you've found an on line translator!!

Just answer the question; when did the Greens first protest about dog racing?
David Shoebridge ought to be able to tell you.

Paul,

Have you signed Animals Australia's current petition yet?

I have, I was number 23,230.

1842.

After showing up the likes of The Shooters Party as apologists for animal cruelty this thread seems to have run out of steam. As usual me old sparring partner Is Mise can offer nothing worthwhile to defend animal cruelty in the likes of the barbaric greyhound business and the cruelty that is so called recreational shooting. In parting I'll invite all to join in the 'Million Paws Walk" 2015.

http://www.millionpawswalk.com.au/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwuI-oBRCEi87g0K3O8OoBEiQAb25WAaT2VC4nTAUo79XbUq4EdTMvCSfLCmv1WW4f0GRU3GwaAuZQ8P8HAQ

Don't go, Paul, before you answer the questions.

When did the Greens first protest about the greyhound racing industry?
When did the Torres Strait Islanders acquire traditional rights in NSW?
Why do you consider Policy Statement No 11 to be trivia?

One wonders just how many of the Greens other Policy Statements are meaningless trivia.

Is Mise, I answered the questions....1842!
Got to rush, there is a pack of recreational shooters down the street, bashing a Panda Bear to death with their rifle butt, must have run out of ammunition! I have to save the poor woodland creature. bye bye for now.
All questions have been answered!

Paul,

You answered nothing and now you run.

Sorrrry! Is Mise, got it wrong, it turned out to be a Polar Bear and not a Panda Bear as first thought. Total carnage as one would expect when the gun happy brigade go up against a real opponent without their big shooters! polar bear 10 shooters nil. Shooters really are a gutless brigade, needing guns to kill poor defenseless animals!

I was happy to answer those question for you, are you comfortable with the answer, 1842?

Paul,

You are shewing your true colours, so once again don't answer.