it was only a generation ago, maybe 2, that our parents continue to stay with us under one roof

now, it is almost like an accepted culture to leave our aged parents to fend for themselves in a caravan park or an aged facility

let us leave the following exceptions aside
a. parents without children
b. children migrated but the aged parents refused to go along
c. children's whose lives are in a big mess... like divorced and unemployed and they cannot even look after themselves

why then are the majority not prepared to have their parents living with them?

my wife was a care giver in one of the aged facility many years back
every christmas eve, she comes back with tears in her eyes and all emotionally spent
she told me there were countless residents who just sat there waiting for their children and grandchildren who never showed up

we used to have our parents with us
now we turn them away for economic reasons and also for our convenience and "more space and privacy and less conflicts"

i did a quick poll at the farm services shop some time back and to my amazement, all of those older than 55 told me they would rather be with one of their children
the funny thing is their initial response was to be politically correct and bravely say they rather be left on their own... BUT on further probing...they finally opened their hearts and say ideally they would rather be in the warmth of larger family

for the records, our parents continues to stay with us under one roof
there are some minor conflicts (non that cannot be resolved) and i must say we are feeling very blessed

Good luck to you having your parents live with you Platypus1900, but I don't think you can judge others for not doing the same without knowing their circumstances.

I too have worked in Nursing homes, and have listened to stories from relatives of residents that have made me equally sad.....for them.

Some children did not have a good life with mum and dad, and are thus not keen to have much to do with them as adults.
Others just can't handle sickness or dementia in the elderly and tend to stay away.
Others are just awful relatives!

As a community nurse now, I see many elderly people living in relative's homes.
They are usually those whose parents were good to them all their lives, or they have sold the parents home and added on to their own home with that money....and told their parents they will 'look after' them.

It doesn't always work, but it is not helpful to judge others
if you don't know the full story .....

@suse

i dont get what you are saying

i am talking about our society
about a culture we lost
i am talking about family values

you mentioned parents who did not look after their children
you talk about children who do not like looking after old parents..their messiness and aged issues
you mention about awful relatives (cannot follow this point)

dont you realise those are issues to be looked at
issues to confront and ask ... like how come the parents were bad in the first place....
issues like parents in retirement villages and caravan parks...if that is what we want?

it is not meant to be judgemental

you wished me good luck?
no, that is not what i need
what my family (children and grandchildren) need is to learn
learn how to love
how to be patient
how repay our parents for the love they shown us
how to look after them when they are old and need us

good luck?
no... we have our problems...not easy looking after aged parents
but we resolve them
the alternative to put them in retirement homes is a lazy...cowardly...uncaring..unloving way to treat our parents

yes..there will be exceptions
like evil and bad parents who never looked after their children in the first place
my parents and in-laws does not belong to that group
and we believe we do not belong to that group

suse.... stop giving excuses for our pitiful society that is going down the slippery path... be brave and say no...and stop all those justifications

thks

Life is different now platypus. Where we once stayed in the same town/city, that is no longer the case. As a country boy all the more academic of my school mates went off to somewhere to university. Some of the less academic moved to other towns or the city to get apprenticeships, or just work opportunities.

When I went off to Uni I never lived within 100Km of my parents. They chose their retirement district, & it was only when my father died that we bought a transportable granny flat for her. She was on my property, but independent for 20 years until 98, by her choice.

My mother in law has one daughter near Noosa, one in Boonah area, a son near Coffs Harbour & one in Kiama. She chose to stay in Sydney, rather than chase any one kid, where her siblings & friends are close by. She will probably need more support soon, but what she does is her choice.

My own kids are spread from Sydney to Darwin. The days when families lived their lives within a few blocks of each other are long gone. I will agree this is a pity. It would be nice to know some more of my relatives, or the kids I went to school with, but our world no longer works that way.

@hasbeen

i like your post
nice and simple and sincere

you did well to get your mother to stay in the granny flat on your property
what an excellent idea
she get her space and yet remain with the family

as for your MIL, could she be like many aussies who are putting up a brave front
my mates told me when they are old and incontinent, they dont want their family to see them in a mess... a matter of pride
could that be the real reason?

i pray that more of us will speak up and educate, teach our family and ourselves on what is a better way

i hate it when people from other culture asked "is that how you all look after your aged parents?"

There is not one, but two elephants in the room:

-first, (grand)parental alienation, which is rife in Australia; and

-secondly, the destruction of the extended family, which is again linked to the non-valuing of family ('dissed' as 'traditional' where traditional is a feminist term of abuse) and consequential to the feminist hatred of fathers and fatherhood.

While young Australians like most youth anywhere do move around somewhat after leaving the nest, I suspect that the majority return to the suburb at least one if a couple was raised in. There are expected exceptions to that given the general population drift away from the country (poor government planning and brutish economic reality) and from towns and cities that failed to thrive (poor government planning can be a factor).

However it is also true that one of the social factors that sets Australia apart from many other countries is that the elderly have not been valued and less so as time wears on. Despite recent protests to the contrary, government makes it very plain that seniors are not seen as contributing to the nation -where economics or more bluntly the mighty dollar rules.

The old are also the excuses and whipping boys of governments that have failed to plan, or more likely have ideologies to serve. Those who should know better have allowed government to foster intergenerational jealousy, usually as an easy way of introducing changes in budget priorities.

Not to forget either the growth of individualism, concentration on self (and greed is good), challenges to 'traditional' (that word again) ethics and morality - where morals flex to suit self-centered priorities. Did I mention consumerism? Should have, since it is so actively modelled to us by the greedy careerists who call themselves politicians.

Where to start?
The old don't understand themselves and need to drastically overhaul their and society's expectations of the final chapter of life.

There is some very good work on the subject being done overseas and Australia should not be playing catch-up in what could be a very good export earner of providing policy advice to other countries.

platypus1900,

The simple answer you might prefer?

Those raised where the extended family is valued and useful are likely to want to continue it and take care of their folks.

There are many pressures on the family. Both sides of the parliament pay lip service to supporting the family. Arguably one side is far less disposed to support and is usually working against it, call that 'Progressivism' aka international socialism, which promotes the State as carer.

@otb

yes...good post and fair comments

allow me to elaborate
i am not advocating big extended family living in a giant mansion

surely every family have their own dynamics

what i would like us to do is to reexamine the issue of looking after our aged parents
must we all be left with no choice but loneliness and solitude in the last few years of our lives?
is that what we want
is that what we want for our parents who loved us and looked after us for the first 20 years or so of our lives?

surely there is one child out of the few, who will have what it takes to look after grandpa and grandma?

i just dont think it is right ( barring those exceptions listed earlier)

the State is cold ...the State is not family

platypus1900, "i am not advocating big extended family living in a giant mansion"

I know.

The culture has changed as a result of the perfect storm of social and economic influences.

If you look at the older homes around (and they were homes not just houses) you will see how almost all were added to over time with closed in verandas for example to accommodate other members of family when they first married and ere getting their stake, were displaced from work or injured, got old or whatever. Those small workers cottages housed extended families.

Of course everyone values space, but your point is that in many circumstances there is more than adequate space, so why not share? Because some people, more now than ever before, are egocentric, materialistic and selfish that's why.

Things have changed and the prevailing attitude these days is to tip the old buggers out of their homes to get the asset. If Soylent green was available there are some who would be proposing it for their relatives.

There is also a host of greedy entrepreneurs waiting to redevelop those inner 'burbs for hipsters and trendies, and other entrepreneurs leaning on government to diminish standards so that they can sell tiny shoe boxes in slums of the future to the displaced elderly. Re-developed caravan parks (or at least the redeveloped concept) are caught up in that.

Seniors must become less reliant on others to develop options and put their case for them. First they must redefine aging. Obviously it isn't a park bench for most.

Frankly I will be interested to observe how some of the anti-child, anti-family and anti'him' (and his relatives) proponents (most know the sort), get on after they have lost their work environment.

You reap what you sow I guess. Although there will also be reaping of what others have sown for them, but they (the mainstream) were too apathetic to raise objections to at the time.

I am somewhat wary of sweeping statements and
generalisations, they're often signs of irrational,
inflexible attitudes especially when focused towards
an entire category of people. Generalisations tend
to ignore the differences between individuals and
the particular circumstances involved. We don't all
have the same set of circumstances when it comes to
our elderly parents. Many factors are usually involved and
must be considered on each individual basis.

Yes of course we need to pay more attention to the way our
elderly are treated in our society. We need to educate people
against the belief that one age category is in some
respects inferior to other age categories and that unequal
treatment of them is therefore somehow justified.
We have to try to educate people against - ageism - which is
an ideology which takes no account of individual differences,
and instead treats all old people as though age were their
single most important characteristic.

We've had two sets of parents to look after and we
did for as long as we could. My mother-in-law had
alzheimers, she's now passed away. My elderly, frail
mother, has dementia and she is now in an aged-care
facility.

She lived with us for as long as she could
however when she became very frail and
needed care 24/7 - we had to place her
into a facility where that care could be provided for her.
She could not be trusted to be left alone and as we were
both working full-time - leaving her alone was not an option.
However, she is in an excellent facility - we visit her
regularly. I ring her several times a day.
We also take her out, have her at our place for dinner,
and all family occasions, including -
Christmas/Easter, Birthdays, she's fully involved in our
family life. Her grand-children visit her as well. She is
not in any way neglected.

And, from the people we have met with elderly parents -
nearly all are just as caring as far as their families
are concerned.

@otb

thks for your post
i enjoyed reading it
solyent green huh?...you are not young then... :)

my point is not just sharing of space
my emphasis is duty and love for our aged parents...to look after them in the sunset of their lives

advocates of free speech, rights of individuals, rights to live for convicted murdurers.... , should seriously search their hearts when they do not

a. support the rights of an innocent unborn human child
b. even want to look after their aged parent

yes?...no?

@foxy

posts like these in this forum will to a certain extent be generalizations
we can deal with exceptions as and when they are raised

your category falls under the "aged sick" group

you mentioned you looked after your mother and in-laws as long as you could until they got to be old and sick and needed special care
and you mentioned you call your dear mother a few times a day

foxy... you are a good person
my apologies if i made you feel bad
you are NOT the group i am referring to

on aged sick, i told my late mother
even when she is very old and sick, we will look after her
i told her we would get get a full time carer for her
but i did tell her if it becomes too difficult when she gets very sick, we will have no choice but to put her in an aged sick facility where the doctors and nurses and medical eqpt are readily at hand

btw, my mother spent the last 3 weeks of her life in the hospital
she lost 1.5 of her lungs due to CA and she was in the last days of her life
during those times, at least one member of the family was with her on a 24 hours basis

my grown up and married children has no problems taking care of us when we are older

i guess that is what role modelling is all about
that is what values are all about
and hopefully , it spreads and becomes our culture...again

I'm afraid we Aussies don't have a particularly good record in terms of caring for our aged ? Sure those who have sufficient resources to sell the family home, down size and buy into a graduated care facility, they're all OK, more or less ? Particularly those with strong family links.

Something my years as a copper have shown me over time, is how many of our indigent aged we have living and dying on the streets of inner Sydney ? Or in some neglected, squalid rooming house where most of their pension is 'stripped' from them by lousy landlords ?

Most of these poor buggers suffer from mental illness, or other anti-social affliction. Many of them, both men and women through circumstances beyond them, lack personal hygiene and tend to emit or exude strong odours of alcohol, excessive smoking and of course body odour ? Consequently, most members of the pubic recoil and hurry away, if and when they're ever approached by any these people, most only seeking money for strong drink, more often by straight-out begging, formerly a street offence ?

Point is, some of Australia's (young) homeless people, are only in those circumstances, exclusively by their own choice, for a variety of reasons ? Many refuse to comply with normal discipline in the home, truancy from school, assaulting one or more of their parents, disruptive and aggressive behaviour etc. etc. ?

But our indigent senior's rarely have a choice, though admittedly there are exceptions ? They're simply abandoned, and it's only the Christian Churches who seem to offer regular help in some material way...AND...if I may also add, the coppers too ! I don't care how hard hearted the average copper is, or how immune they may be at constantly witnessing the daily parade of human detritus ? Most find it a pretty sorry sight observing many of these lonely deserted old buggers, laying around often in their own filth - totally abandoned.

What's that famous maxim ? '...But for the grace of God go I...' ?

In her last few months my mother could no longer stand or walk at all, & had to go into a nursing home. Although it was an excellent facility, with really caring staff she hated it. It was not her granny flat, her home of over 20 years.

To try to help her I tried to get in there every week day, if only for 15 minutes or so. I left the weekends to the grand kids.

It highlighted how many are abandoned when the receptionist said one Friday, "you've been here every day haven't you", in obvious amazement.

We do need to fix the euthanasia laws in Oz. She just wanted out of there, permanently. If she had been at home I may have tried something, but I & she had lost control at that stage.

Unless we fix them, I expect I will become another single vehicle car crash fatality. I wonder how many actually go that way.

platypus1900, "my emphasis is duty and love for our aged parents...to look after them in the sunset of their lives"

Yes, agreed and we must also have regard for the community of which we are part. The 'care' of far too many people requires that the State and taxpayers support their kin (and likely themselves) while they do squat but proffer advice and false sentiment.

Support the rights of an innocent unborn human child.

I see no way around the practical necessity of legal abortion. However, the number of terminations overall, and the unexpected, unresearched and unexplained high number of terminations of healthy foetuses of women during their best fertile years, are very concerning.

Government reports say that young couples are not having the children they expected and planned to have. They simply cannot afford children and time slips away. The high taxes to provide the infrastructure and support for excessive migrant intakes ('Big Australia') result in our own young couples not being to have the children they worked for.

It is most regrettable that government consistently fails to address this persistent problem that could explain why there are so many abortions affecting a cohort where every forecast prior (to universally available terminations) did not imagine that possibility.

Young couples in their peak fertile years are bearing too great a load to support a 'Big Australia' that the public doesn't even want and would vote against.

@hasbeen

you are doing well for your mother
and i know you will continue to do well

dont go the way of euthanasia
that is an easy way out... it opens a pandora box to many more issues

i wish you well in looking after your mother
and i know your children will likewise look after you well

@otb

"practical legal abortion" sounds good
the correct phrase is
"convenient legally accepted murder of one's unborn child"

when we got married, we never had the problem of unwanted children
we took responsible family planning precautions
we decided if there was to be an accident, the child will be born in love... it is our child and the 'accident' wasnt the unborn baby's.

we can continue to give reasons and new terms.... at the end of the day , it is murder pure and simple
decisions such as this cannot be farmed out to the parliamentarians

thank you

Platypus1900 "we can continue to give reasons and new terms.... at the end of the day , it is murder pure and simple
decisions such as this cannot be farmed out to the parliamentarians"

Really?
Who should the decision be 'farmed out to' then Platypus?
Religions?
Men?
You?

Surely the only ones who should be making this decision are the parents and their doctor.

Hi there HASBEEN...

I'm sorry for not responding sooner to the dilemma concerning the unhappy circumstances with which your dear Mum finds herself ? This is despite the frequency of your visits and her grandchildren visiting her each weekend. ?

It's tough when we get older, often we consider ourselves an imposition on the rest of the family, this is despite their reassurance to the contrary ? Still, despite the fact that many important and influential people support mercy killing, especially at the (considered) behest of the patient, it's a bit like capital punishment, make an error and it's irreversible ? Should the patient have a change of mind, circumstances change, or in the case of terminal illness, a cure appears just over the horizon, then it's all too late ?

I realise, many would not agree with me, but that's OK, after all it's just a personal opinion nothing more. But HASBEEN, I do feel very sorry for you personally, and your dear Mum in fact your entire family, because important decisions, with what we do with our much loved, but aged family members, is never easy, and someone always ends up getting hurt ?

@suse

to the one who gives life and the ultimate law giver

I agree Platypus!
It is the woman who 'gives life', and thus it is her decision whether or not to go through with a pregnancy.
And the law makers of our country say she can legally do this.