Dear otb,

Thank You so much for raising the subject of
"political ideology." This broadens the
discussion. You encouraged me to do a bit
of research on the subject.

I agree that many voters
(not only the young) are disgusted with today's
politics. And who can blame them. Take a look
at the behaviour of our politicians. Ever
watched "Question Time?" They certainly could
do with lessons in manners. All of them.

Ben Pobjie has written an article on that very
subject - it talks about the need for Australia
to consider the
importance of good manners - especially the
behavioural standards in our legislatures. Many
voters feel that Parliament nees an improvement in
manners. Pobjie points out - "just a few minutes
spent watching parliamentary proceedings will
demonstrate that normal procedure is for every
declaration by a member to be met by catcalls,
hooting, sneers and guffaws from the opposite side."

"The basic hallmark of politeness allowing a person who's
speaking to finish without interruption is completely
absent from the average MP's worldview."

"It would be nice if Parliament could clean itself up
a little and shift standards in the direction of truth
in debate and away from juvenile idiocy ... but our
elected leaders insisted to do the
opposite."

And name-calling - another tactics of a six year old
springs come - "Electricity Bill," "Juliar,"
"Typhoon Tony," "Ju-leech" (Julie Bishop),
"Knobend" (Christopher Pyne), and so on.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/14/australia-lets-talk-about-manners-again

What kind of an example is this being set by our leaders
for our young people?

Foxy,

You may be taking the article's author too seriously. From the fish wrapper, 'Ben Pobjie is a Melbourne writer and comedian'.

Here is a funny excerpt from (Pobjie's) Bob Carr's Diary,

"Bob Carr's diary: the outtakes
Amazed by the mess left in the foreign minister’s office by Kevin. He has chewed almost every chair leg in the place, and the desk is full of Mexican walking fish. I can see I have a lot of work in front of me to turn this place around. Made a good start by gathering all the department staff together and singing them an aria from Tristan und Isolde. I think they got the message. Many were moved to tears.."

As for the manners of young Australians I must say that my experiences are overwhelmingly most positive. They are open, forthright, caring and polite.

But then I do not move in circles where 'slut walks', welfare dependence, demonstrations and the like are usual.

Have to admit though that some young relatives have had to undertake postings in country areas that were once gentle and lovely, but have fallen to a certain drunken lawless element on 'sit-down' money who have nothing but contempt for the teachers, medical staff and other professions who are sent there. Any proposal to teach manners would miss the mark and be criticised as 'discrimination'.

I agree with Peter Hitchens when he says that the Western democracies are fast going down the drain. Although Hitchens is usually focusing on the UK, Australia seems to ape their social policies in particular.

I also agree with Hitchens that the cultural war was lost long ago and the best that can be done is to observe and record the slide.

Come to think of it, many of the very nice, well qualified and responsible young adults I know are either heading off overseas or are planning to. I guess they are smart in keeping their goals up front and giving the social messes (and the leftist 'Progressives who are responsible) the big swerve.

Dear otb,

What I am taking seriously is the topic of this
discussion. Ben Pobjie is a satirist. So no,
I am not taking him too seriously. You
raised the topic of politics - Pobjie's article
was relevant. But I'm sure that you know that.

Young Australians who are "open, forthright, caring,
and polite," are not the ones who need to be taught
manners.

It's the ones that you mention (and seem
to know much more about than I), the ones you
knowingly described - where "slut walks, welfare dependence,
and demonstrations and the like are usual."
Makes me wonder where you get your information from
if you don't mix in those kind of circles.

However,

They're the unfortunate ones and the reasons why
we should teach manners and etiquette in the classroom.

Kids need good social skills in order to succeed.
If kids aren't learning these basic skills at home
(and obviously the kids you describe are not), we need to
be teaching them at school. Otherwise through subtle
social signals these kids without manners will lose out
and will never know why.

Foxy, "They're the unfortunate ones.."

'unfortunate'?!

How fast you are to provide excuses to relieve your treasured 'victims' of any responsibility for the own decisions.

The negative consequences of the cultural war that the feminists and other leftist 'Progressives' have already won are all about, in the proliferation of fatherless families and parent (include grandparent) alienation, for example.

"How bold we are to assume that devaluing men won’t have a negative effect on the world at large. How bold we are to assume that it won’t hurt all of us, not just men."
Elizabeth Hanna Pham, “In Defense of Men,” New Feminism

Now you want more taxpayers money to interfere some more in the education system, ramping up the very policies, individualism (to take another example), that are at the foot of the altered values, social collapse and general harm to youth.

I am sure that as the urgers, supporters and useful idiots of the cultural war retire from their comfy guvvy funded sinecures, or even continue on welfare as so many do, they are going to find that the new 'diversified' culture they wrought is not going to be as supportive of them as the previous 'traditional' Aussie culture and values they despised and threw out with the bathwater.

In short Foxy, the leftist 'Progressives' will have to get used to the teens and adults of the infants whose lives you changed forever.

Of course there are probably many here who for years have been warning of the likely inheritance of radical feminism and progressivism.

Simple answer to the question is no, manners should be taught at home then encouraged and reinforced at school.

Of cause the do-gooders have made sure that won't happen, so I guess as a society, we are what we sew. The hands off approach to discipline in my view has been a failure, evidence being in the vast majority of disrespectful teenagers we now have to encounter.

Well at least our own kids are polite, well mannered and respectful, but then again, we didn't listen to the do-gooders, nor did we allow their persistent interference to undermine what we thought as the best way to raise our children.

Our daughter appears to be following on from where we left off with regards to disciplining our grand son.

rehctub,

You are right of course, children need precise boundaries set by their parents, parents available in their formative years and immediate consequences for transgressions (moderated by judgement, which well meaning parents get right most of the time).

The family unit and other 'traditional' (a word used as an insult by feminists and 'Progressives') values and institutions have been under assault for years. Piece by piece the 'traditional' learning and good child rearing, nurturing and developmental practices - products of trial and error over many generations - have been sledged, ruthlessly undermined and eventually undone, stripped away.

The architects, spruikers and useful idiots responsible for the current mess are not 'fessing up though. No Siree!