So why didn't they just shoot him. He was obviously a terrorist, evidence being in the flag he displayed. I can't believe how our world is controlled by political correctness.

So what happens next time, same agin, or do we just shoot them.

Don't think there will be a next time? Keep dreaming! This is only the beginning.

Butch, Monis The Bastard attacked a foreign owned chain cafe staffed almost entirely by Asian immigrants and killed their gay manager yet the Left are raving about "backlash", "racism" and "rednecks"! Why the hell would we even care much less lift a finger in response to an attack upon a target symbolising everything we decry as being wrong with this country? Monis The Bastard struck at the heart of tolerant, multicultural Australia, he's had no effect on the parochial, illiberal and largely oblivious White society I live in.
When I got to work at seven on Tuesday morning my client asked me "How'd the siege end?" I told him and he made a noise like "Hrrmph!", he didn't even turn on the TV or the radio, just ate his breakfast and went off to work.

It's nothing to do with political correctness. They didn't just shoot him because they couldn't get a clear sight.

Dear Rehctub,

In retrospect we know that Monis was not a terrorist, just an ordinary deranged criminal who just used the flag to draw attention.

Police could not determine whether it is safe to shoot him without injuring hostages. They had insufficient information - but the hostages knew better! What was needed are pre-arranged traps which the hostages could activate. For example, a gun/explosive hidden behind a picture on the wall which the Cafe owner could activate by clicking a series of keys on a remote device just when the criminal/terrorist is there.

Garbage Yuyutsu.

They didn't shoot him because the deputy police commissioner boasted on TV that they prefer to talk them out, not take them out.

We have a police force controlled by politically correct, bleeding heart academic cops, & we need to change it.

We have let ratbags into our country, & now we are about to pay the price of that stupidity.

We are going to have to sit on the bleeding hearts, & get a few tough people at the top of many of our organisations.

Affirmative action has been as much a disaster as our migration & refugee programs. We have to fix these mistakes, & the longer we take, the more of this stuff will happen.

If the Channel 7 news team had him in view on their camera, then police by all accounts should have had him in view in their sniper sights.

But did police know that he was alone at that time?
And did he really have others working with him with bombs?

I'm not saying the police have blood on their hands, as it was Man Monis's fault doing what he did, but they could have just shot him and none of the hostages might've ended up getting hurt.

I think that police resisted any opportunities to take him out when they had the chance earlier in the day because they feared making him a martyr, and of enraging those who may be sympathetic to the Islamic State cause and of of inciting further attacks.

I think the police may have endangered the lives of the hostages not taking him out when they had a chance.

I also think he was a terrorist in every sense of the word, (and a sex pest) and I don't buy into the played-down idea that he was a lone wolf and not a terrorist.

Firstly he had an 'End's Justifies the means' mentality.
He was willing to put others peoples lives at risk to further the agenda of a terrorist organisation, one with extremist religious views.
Secondly he may not been a member of Islamic State, but he did advocate their views and mentality, and asked for an Islamic State flag.
Thirdly he asked to speak with the Prime Minister.

So we have violence and threats of violence against hostages held at gunpoint; with an 'end justifies the means' mentality for potential political gain, whilst advocating a terrorist organisation.

Which part of that does not equal terrorism?

The QLD police has shot and killed several pests of late, and bravo I say because one less idiot is a good thing.

How then can they not justify shooting this moron who was endangering the lives of so many and as has been said, if the tv cameras can see him, so too can the snipers.

I'm afraid my method of dealing with these types is shoot first and ask questions later, because if we did that, fewer idiots would take up the challenge.

As for the judge that released him on bail, he should be sacked, never to be allows to practice again. No doubt Derin Hynch will be in strife for naming him as well.

Any terrorist action should bring a mandatory death penalty, then and there if possible.

Once those five hostages escaped they would have informed the police Monis was alone.

The only rationale I can think of for not shooting him between the eyes is the sniper had to shoot through the Channel 7 window pane before the bullet could travel across the street and through the café window glass. Perhaps they felt a clean shot was unlikely to be on target; although if combined with storming the doors simultaneously, the outcome wouldn't have been any worse.

I'm also assuming that everyone who was shot, except for the store manager, was shot by the police. Am I correct? Why isn't this being discussed in the open?

Yuyutsu, What are you smoking?t?

One "expert", was asked why they did not shoot him through the glass.
He answered that the glass which was toughened glass could result in
a change of trajectory of the bullet and result in a miss and spray
glass everywhere.
He considered it to be too risky.

What surprised me that there was an indication that they did not have
a camera inserted through the wall or such place and be able to see
that he had gone to sleep.
If so they would have been aware that the manager was going after the gun.
It seems the first they knew was when the gun went off.
Perhaps they all should have just tippy toed out and left the police
to wake him up.

Still that is just from my armchair.

I cannot agree that he is just another criminal.
He did not ask for money or similar, it was a religious/political
ie Islamic act, and it is just that. No excuses it is typical moslem.
It is about time that some people got up off their knees and joined the real world.

ConHip, the woman who was killed was hit by a shotgun and a pellet had
severed her aorta.

Butch,
The police marksman could have shot him but, he had indicated he had explosives in the back pack and, if so, how much and how wired was unknown. The risk therefore of injuring hostages was possible.

It is the unknowns that make decisions hard. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Bazz,
Yeah you can be killed outright by a single pellet if it hits something vital, there was a shootout down here years ago where some old armed robber copped a blast from a Police shotgun, one pellet went into his temple and it was all over.

JAY of MELBOURNE...

Your remarks are quite right. A single pellet from an 870P will undoubtedly kill. In my day we used a double OO buck, 12g, simply translated, means that each of nine pellets or shot, was of .33cal. The weapon used, a Remington 870P 12g shotgun, with either a 20" 18" or even 16" barrel, with or without a folding stock, some with pistol grips. Probably the most popular and reliable 'shotty' within the police inventory, in the western world. AKA 'the great equaliser' ?

Of course JAY I'm retired so they may've gone for something else ? The most popular alternatives being the Mossberg 590 or the ever dependable Ithaca 37DS Police Special, both of similar configuration to the 870P. Now I've completely bored you and everybody else !

HASBEEN...

Mate you're becoming very cynical in your advancing years ! And with very good cause I might add ! That (unfortunately) is current practice today, to 'wait' an offender out. Talk, talk and even more talk. I suspect this is still considered 'best practice' by all police forces around Australia. Better to prolong an incident, than act decisively and have a 'blood bath' ? Mate, I dunno ?

HASBEEN, I've been thinking - It doesn't matter what part of the world you're in, if there are Muslims present in any numbers, there is trouble ! In traditional Muslim countries, there's much violence and institutional brutality. Or a population, so under the thumb with fear, they dare not challenge the harsh Sharia law, lest they or their families, suffer some barbaric punishment(s).

What future do our children and grandchildren have, in a country which 'we've' seemingly allowed to decline along religious partitioning ?

We're now informed that there was a special forces team on standby at Holsworthy, that is to say the guys who do all the action movie stuff, rappel down the side of buildings head first and breach windows etc.
We still come back to the point that Monis had a backpack with wires protruding from it and clearly stated that it was a bomb, a fake bomb is as good as a real one in that situation. It's all mind games, if he'd had a real bomb it could have ended with the deaths of all the hostages and a lot of dead commandos to boot.
We need also recognise that mishandled sieges have inspired subsequent atrocities, Tim McVeigh for example was outraged by the deaths of Sam and Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidians at Waco and exacted his revenge in Oklahoma City.

Come on Jay, the cops, giving this bloke all that time to grandstand, & depending on a "hero" to actually end it for them, has just increased the number of others planning a similar attack by about 500%.

Instant & immediate deadly force is what is needed, nothing else will suffice this this type of ratbag.

No matter what is done, the media must be told to shut the hell up, until it is over. I have not seen anything much more sickening as the endless parade of talking heads used to pad their coverage.

I have always been of the opinion that if the media had never reported the first aircraft hijack, there would not have a second. The ridiculous coverage given this thing has guaranteed more will follow.

Yes o sung wu, to say I am pretty disgusted with the depth of whimpishness our society has sunk to, is putting it very mildly. One has to wonder if it is actually worth saving.

Hasbeen,
The "rough men" stand ready, don't worry on that score but do you really want to see a situation where the people lose confidence in the Police and take matters into their own hands?
That's the real story of the Cronulla protests, the concerns of the people were being ignored and belittled by the Police and government and they took action but what happened that night and the next after the Police had supposedly regained control?
As I said, it's all mind games, the Police and the government have to at least keep up the illusion that they have this situation under control, as long as people think that they can sleep soundly at night they're not going to peek through the venetians and notice what's actually going on outside in the darkness beyond their porch light.

The judge that allowed this murderous criminal out on bail should be made liable since he bears the responsibility of the decision on a criminals release. No person charged with murder or accessory to murder should be free on bail.

Re the Cronulla night event, I listened to the Police radio that night
and it was quite a different story than what the bleeding hearts will
tell you. The Lakemba gangs tried to deliberately run over police when
they closed off the roads into Cronulla.
The gang beat up civilians in their streets when they objected to the
noise and smashing up parked cars.

Then the Lakemba gangs came up on the Police frequency and were trying
to pretend they were the Police command station.
Quite funny actually, they couldn't quite get rid of their accent.
These were the Lakemba car stealing gang that shot up Lakemba Police Station.
There is said to be some interesting stories around those radio aspects.

Then someone came on and advised a change to a channel that I could
not find. So that fixed that.

Jay my son was attacked by a gang of 4 Lebs, who jumped out of a passing car, in a Sydney suburb.

His skull was fractured by their boots in 4 places. He was only saved by people in a couple of cars, who stopped & chased them off.

They called the cops. The cops advised him not to expect to hear any more about it, they found it impossible to get anywhere with these attacks. They are evidently quite common on the outskirts of the Muslim controlled suburbs, but of course this is never reported.

The cops were given the number of their car, but it was an out of date plate, for a different make of car. This was usual also.

The cops were right, he never had any contact from them.

Hasbeen,My sister in law and her boyfriend were attacked by a gang of six Lebs in the city one night, they walked past and called her a slut, her partner said "What?" and in seconds they were both on the ground being kicked and punched until the bouncers from a nearby bar came to their rescue.
When the cops do take some action they're mobbed, if a Lebanese person is pulled over or detained, the text messages start flying and within minutes there's a crowd of 40 or 50 relatives on the scene jeering and threatening the Officers.
Forget religious extremism, that's barely even a problem compared to their everyday behaviour, the people the hashtag dummies and bleeding hearts are hugging in the mall are the outliers of the Muslim community, there's a tiny minority of educated, well off, liberal minded Muslims and it's simply a case of birds of a feather flocking together.

Looks like Peter Vexatious is right about lawyers and judges, to allow people like Man Haron Monis to be let out on bail.
forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16922&page=0#297474

Hello CONSTANCE...

I think you're blaming the wrong parties for releasing this fellow on Bail ? The judiciary are required to pursue the letter of the law when in comes to issues of Bail and other 'civil rights' that are determined by legislation.

If one has the urge to apportion blame in this matter, it's back at the feet of our awfully wise political masters. It's they who re-determined the Bail Act, therefore it's 'they' that deserve the censure for the consequences ?

O Sung Wu,

"....the Mossberg 590 or the ever dependable Ithaca 37DS Police Special, both of similar configuration to the 870P...."

I used to have an Ithica Police Special and it was a superb gun, its main points over the rivals was that it was ambidextrous and could have the magazine topped up at any time.

Hi there IS MISE...

You my friend have excellent taste in 'Shoty's', and there would be a large proportion of law enforcement agencies in the US that would agree with you too ! Ithaca have made superb shotguns for years, though I'm not sure for how long, but they have a very loyal following from law enforcement. Attempting to have any sort of quite, sensible debate over the various merits of; the 870P's over the Ithaca, the Winchester Mod 97 (partially exposed hammer) Riot, even the Savage 720 (auto loader) and many other excellent US Police/Military Shotguns, is neigh impossible ! As the evening wears on, and the 'Buds' start flowing...! What do they call it ? 'Ballistic' masturbation, you know what I'm talking about IS MISE ?

I realise I'm talking a load of rubbish here, still ? Before I retired I had the pleasure of field testing the South African 'Striker' 12, designed for a 'counter-insurgency' military/police application.

A whole new generation of shoty. Renowned for being ultra compact with a rotary chamber (12rds of 12g), folding stock, double pistol grips (aft & fwd) with a 18" barrel. It may be fired with the stock completely folded, using the two pistol grips. All furniture is metal. Personally I felt it was a little unwieldy. The rotary chamber is bulky and makes the weapon less efficient then the traditional 870P and most others of the more conventional configuration. Still it's like everything else, one needs to settle in with any new weapon system, wouldn't you agree ? Firing the thing without deploying the stock, renders less control, still we can't have it both ways ? And it takes all types of 12g and it's variations.

I enjoy our infrequent little chats on gun 'stuff', your extensive small arms background, means I can learn from you, IS MISE.

Constantly astounded that sympathisers and apologists like Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young don't volunteer themselves as hostage exchanges.

Then again, notable Greens like Bob Brown and the lemon-sucker Christine Milne who trash Australia's border policy and would throw open the doors to all-comers never volunteered to take any of the scores of young male economic migrants (and possible criminals) into their own homes either. But why not?

What about the bobble-headed L'il Willie Shorten? Send him in to apply his expertise, since no others understand it as he does.

Amazing how it is always the very citizens and occupations that the Leftists and Greens trash-talk who step in to put their lives on the line to protect the public.

o sung wu, Saturday, 20 December 2014 4:38:38 PM

Good Lord, you will be causing forum's hoplophobes to be having pink fits, alternating between fearful hysteria and uncontrollable rage.

They will be fainting with frothing mouths imagining Hollywood hunks and 'bads' single-handedly racking up their nasty 'sniper, assault, automatic, long-range' shotguns (in black, but of course).

Not so long ago a busload of the police 'men in black' arrived in a carpark where some troublemaking hoplophobe was allegedly horrified, mortally afraid and so on to have come upon a 'bullet'. In fact the subject item was a harmless spent tiny .22 case that had doubtlessly fallen out of some farmer's Landcruiser ute following rabbit culling or more likely sickly aged sheep (more likely because of drought).

Obviously the 'modern' police 'service' has an abundant supply of drama queens as well, especially in its command structure. So you could be worrying them as well.

There is so much muddying the waters and general confusion from the 'Progressives' political correctness that great angst is apparent for mundane inconsequential things, but deliberate acts of terrorism are minimised as the acts of the unfortunate mentally distraught, and it is our fault for 'making' them that way (according to the lunar Leftists, apologists for Muslim extremism and lawlessness).

There have been suggestions over the past few days that Monis' original target might have been Channel 7 and an assassination attempt on the Sunrise presenters, David Koch and Samantha Armytage or that he was intending to lie in wait in the Lindt cafe for Seven staff and take them hostage.
We may never know, but if the rumours are confirmed it puts a different complexion of the case, putting it firmly in the "propaganda by the deed" class rather than the lone nut category.
Numan Haider's suicide mission was a real terrorist attack on a real propaganda target, a Police station, at face value Man Monis' outrage seems either a delusional rampage or a botched terror attack.

G'day there ONTHEBEACH...

Oh my friend, whatever are we to do with you ? You'll not be admitted to the Ms HANSON-YOUNG adoration fan club, nor will you be offered membership of that venerable group 'the anti-gun lobby' ! You really do need to curb your far-right commentary on those awful 'black' firearm things. I wonder, do they come in soft pastel colours ? I'm losing it, I really am ?

Seriously though, you're right on the money, with your observations. There's quite a ground-swell of these new age police people who've come into the job in the last fifteen, twenty years ? Fortunately for me at least, I was winding down preparing for my retirement, as they slowly started filtering through the system ? Some are OK, but if you were to listen to many of my peer group...well, some should be shot on sight !

I think you might agree with me ONTHEBEACH when I say - to deal with hard, violent men, you need to have a group of hard, quite tough police members. Police who are not afraid to 'throw the book' at many of these hard thugs, who frighten and intimidate others who can't accommodate them in kind.

Police are not professional boxers, nor are they paid to be boxers. Nevertheless there are quite a few coppers who can 'hold up their hands', and are not frightened to do so, in the right circumstances. And I believe it's just as it should be ! Too many of these thugs beat it in court, with the aid of competent (legal aid) counsel, but when they confront some of these much harder coppers, they back right down !

I knew of a such a group of coppers working the Bankstown LAC. See them, you'd not see a Muslim gang or gang member. They, the coppers 'owned the streets' at night, just as it should be !You could leave a ten year old girl alone in the Bankstown CBD, she'd be as safe as houses !

Have a great Christmas, both you and yours ONTHEBEACH !

Native French under Attack in Muslim Areas - Closer to civil war
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDJyhf1VQL4
A Declaration of War From The Generation of National Identity English subs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA5S5Qrg6CU

Hey Jay, if that is right, & all Monis really wanted to do was get rid of David Koch, perhaps he's not so bad after all..

Perhaps all he was trying to do was improve daytime TV for everyone.

Yes o sung wu, when I was a boy you had to have a bit of height, & weight to get into a police uniform. Today they have girls who's knees you can see buckling under the weight on their belt. I'm told that cars "manned" by a bloke & a girl will often not interfere with a group of 3 or 4 thugs, as they can not handle them.

If that is true, we are on our way down the slippery slope to catastrophe. All this equal opportunity could lead to the streets being totally unsafe for the feminists.

Duh. How did they know there was only one Moslem terrorist in the shop before they stormed it?

Julian,

Maybe they asked one of the first people to escape from the cafe.

G'day HASBEEN...

From the whispers I've heard, that's quite true, sadly. I'm not inferring in anyway, if you had a response of two bigger males, they'd still not seek assistance.

It all came about with 'equal opportunity' and 'anti-discrimination' legislation ? With that they did away with minimum height and weight restrictions, ethnicity, and colour. I'm not suggesting it was all bad, it was beneficial in some areas, but in others, disastrous ! Still it's what we've got, and we have to live with it ?

When I hear about diversity in Policing I'm reminded of an incident a few years ago in Carlton when the traffic lights were flashing amber at the intersection of Rathdowne and Princes St, which for those who don't know Melbourne is a significant intersection in the inner city.
The traffic was banking up and the first cop on scene was a little Vietnamese officer who looked about five foot five who was struggling to get his fluoro vest on as he walked out into the centre of the intersection, he almost got clipped by a passing car which made him all angry. His actions over the next few minutes had me in stitches, this officer's gun belt seemed to be dragging his pants down, maybe it wasn't done up right or whatever but he's trying to hitch up his strides with one hand and direct traffic with the other.
People were getting confused and turning thinking he'd signaled them to do so and after a few other cars followed the leaders the cop blew his stack and with one hand holding his belt he was literally jumping up and down screaming "STOP! STOP!".
Another car arrived and two female officers got the situation under control but I'll never forget the sight of that little chap in his oversized old pattern uniform and vest with his baton almost touching the ground and his leg holster slipping to his knee.
Call it a wardrobe malfunction rather than any indication of his actual capabilities but at least the new uniforms and accoutrements issued to Victoria Police seem more comfortable and ergonomic than the old ones:
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201106/r786703_6812964.jpg