JAY of MELBOURNE...

Your remarks are quite right. A single pellet from an 870P will undoubtedly kill. In my day we used a double OO buck, 12g, simply translated, means that each of nine pellets or shot, was of .33cal. The weapon used, a Remington 870P 12g shotgun, with either a 20" 18" or even 16" barrel, with or without a folding stock, some with pistol grips. Probably the most popular and reliable 'shotty' within the police inventory, in the western world. AKA 'the great equaliser' ?

Of course JAY I'm retired so they may've gone for something else ? The most popular alternatives being the Mossberg 590 or the ever dependable Ithaca 37DS Police Special, both of similar configuration to the 870P. Now I've completely bored you and everybody else !

HASBEEN...

Mate you're becoming very cynical in your advancing years ! And with very good cause I might add ! That (unfortunately) is current practice today, to 'wait' an offender out. Talk, talk and even more talk. I suspect this is still considered 'best practice' by all police forces around Australia. Better to prolong an incident, than act decisively and have a 'blood bath' ? Mate, I dunno ?

HASBEEN, I've been thinking - It doesn't matter what part of the world you're in, if there are Muslims present in any numbers, there is trouble ! In traditional Muslim countries, there's much violence and institutional brutality. Or a population, so under the thumb with fear, they dare not challenge the harsh Sharia law, lest they or their families, suffer some barbaric punishment(s).

What future do our children and grandchildren have, in a country which 'we've' seemingly allowed to decline along religious partitioning ?

We're now informed that there was a special forces team on standby at Holsworthy, that is to say the guys who do all the action movie stuff, rappel down the side of buildings head first and breach windows etc.
We still come back to the point that Monis had a backpack with wires protruding from it and clearly stated that it was a bomb, a fake bomb is as good as a real one in that situation. It's all mind games, if he'd had a real bomb it could have ended with the deaths of all the hostages and a lot of dead commandos to boot.
We need also recognise that mishandled sieges have inspired subsequent atrocities, Tim McVeigh for example was outraged by the deaths of Sam and Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidians at Waco and exacted his revenge in Oklahoma City.

Come on Jay, the cops, giving this bloke all that time to grandstand, & depending on a "hero" to actually end it for them, has just increased the number of others planning a similar attack by about 500%.

Instant & immediate deadly force is what is needed, nothing else will suffice this this type of ratbag.

No matter what is done, the media must be told to shut the hell up, until it is over. I have not seen anything much more sickening as the endless parade of talking heads used to pad their coverage.

I have always been of the opinion that if the media had never reported the first aircraft hijack, there would not have a second. The ridiculous coverage given this thing has guaranteed more will follow.

Yes o sung wu, to say I am pretty disgusted with the depth of whimpishness our society has sunk to, is putting it very mildly. One has to wonder if it is actually worth saving.

Hasbeen,
The "rough men" stand ready, don't worry on that score but do you really want to see a situation where the people lose confidence in the Police and take matters into their own hands?
That's the real story of the Cronulla protests, the concerns of the people were being ignored and belittled by the Police and government and they took action but what happened that night and the next after the Police had supposedly regained control?
As I said, it's all mind games, the Police and the government have to at least keep up the illusion that they have this situation under control, as long as people think that they can sleep soundly at night they're not going to peek through the venetians and notice what's actually going on outside in the darkness beyond their porch light.

The judge that allowed this murderous criminal out on bail should be made liable since he bears the responsibility of the decision on a criminals release. No person charged with murder or accessory to murder should be free on bail.

Re the Cronulla night event, I listened to the Police radio that night
and it was quite a different story than what the bleeding hearts will
tell you. The Lakemba gangs tried to deliberately run over police when
they closed off the roads into Cronulla.
The gang beat up civilians in their streets when they objected to the
noise and smashing up parked cars.

Then the Lakemba gangs came up on the Police frequency and were trying
to pretend they were the Police command station.
Quite funny actually, they couldn't quite get rid of their accent.
These were the Lakemba car stealing gang that shot up Lakemba Police Station.
There is said to be some interesting stories around those radio aspects.

Then someone came on and advised a change to a channel that I could
not find. So that fixed that.