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The Forum > General Discussion > Ebola hysteria

Ebola hysteria

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I'm starting to get a bit fed-up with what now seems to me to be ebola hysteria. Yesterday's news in Brisbane was full of the fact that an 18 year old woman who had arrived from West Africa had been hospitalised because she had a fever.

I have no problem with her being hospitalised, but I do have a problem with it being all over the news. The media of course played it up - another opportunity to increase their audience and make their advertising space more valuable.

But I don't think it works that way for the government. The girl has since been cleared, as seemed likely. The next time there is an announcement it will be less effective because the last one meant nothing.

Why wouldn't they wait until the results of the tests and they knew whether it was ebola or not?

At another level, the WHO says that by Christmas there could be 10,000 a month dying of ebola. As the total death toll to date is around 10,000, this seems highly unlikely. Previous outbreaks have been contained. One would assume this one will be too.
Posted by GrahamY, Monday, 27 October 2014 8:13:51 AM
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It was a slow day at the Newspaper Office. They needed something to liven things up a bit. The War in Syria I getting a bit stale. Shooting in America are a bit passé now. One every other week. There hasn't been a big natural catastrophy for a while now. Gotta sell papers somehow.

However I was speaking to someone (a little old lady) the other day & she hadn't heard of Ebola. Strange, some people just don't watch the news or if they do, It's a bit like ads on TV, it just goes over the head.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 27 October 2014 8:57:18 AM
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Graham,

"....but I do have a problem with it being all over the news. The media of course played it up - another opportunity to increase their audience and make their advertising space more valuable."

That's the way it works - doesn't it?

That's why we got blanket coverage of the 800 man strong "terror raids" which netted 2 nasties (one of whom was released shortly after on non-terror related good behaviour bond)

"At another level, the WHO says that by Christmas there could be 10,000 a month dying of ebola. As the total death toll to date is around 10,000, this seems highly unlikely. Previous outbreaks have been contained. One would assume this one will be too."

Why is it "unlikely' that a virus like this could get beyond what it has before? These countries are extremely poor, some recovering from war - and WHO had its budget cut, dragged its feet, etc

Good article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/10/04/how-ebola-sped-out-of-control/

"The virus easily outran the plodding response. The WHO, an arm of the United Nations, is responsible for coordinating international action in a crisis like this, but it has suffered budget cuts, has lost many of its brightest minds and was slow to sound a global alarm on Ebola. Not until Aug. 8, 4 1/2 months into the epidemic, did the organization declare a global emergency. Its Africa office, which oversees the region, initially did not welcome a robust role by the CDC in the response to the outbreak.

Previous Ebola outbreaks had been quickly throttled, but that experience proved misleading and officials did not grasp the potential scale of the disaster. Their imaginations were unequal to the virulence of the pathogen."

Having said that, there is a world of difference between catching Ebola in the backstreets of Monrovia with little or no real medical care - and being diagnosed in a Western country with state of the art medical facilities.

Do you really believe this outbreak is no great universal threat outside Africa?
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 27 October 2014 8:59:17 AM
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Regarding the 10,000 by Christmas.

I caught part of a report showing the removal of an Ebola infected elderly woman from her run-down shack (can't remember which country) She'd been "quarantined" by her community and lay almost dead on a squalid mattress in a darkened room by herself. The community had had to wait days for medics to come suited up for her removal. They went in and removed her, putting her into quite a flash ambulance.

Her relatives were going to move back into that house - live in that room...because they had nowhere else to live or seek shelter.

They said they would "clean it" and then resume living there.

These people are the poorest of the poor - so cleaning would probably involve a slop or two of water, etc....then off they'll go languishing in goodness knows what left behind from the infected woman.

That's how it spreads - and that's where we're at in the affected countries in Africa.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 27 October 2014 9:12:37 AM
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poirot: That's why we got blanket coverage of the 800 man strong "terror raids" which netted 2 nasties (one of whom was released shortly after on non-terror related good behaviour bond)

nah! these two were the nastiest of the nasty. The other nasties were released for the same reason the raped children of Rochdale in England weren't reported. The Authorities didn't want to be seen as Racist.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 27 October 2014 9:46:04 AM
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The WHO, part of that illustrious organisation, the UN, has just provided us with another example of it's uselessness.

There has not been a single thing done by the UN in the last 50 years that was of any help to anyone.

It is definitely time to shut it down, & dispatch it's staff to more useful work. They are not worth feeding in their current activities. Road building by hand in the highlands of Nepal might be something they could not stuff up.

As for those grandstanding on the problem, calling for us to send people to help, I'm all for it. All for it, provided the only ones we send are those grandstanding.

We should immediately give them a one way ticket, with the assurance that they are on their own, & will definitely not be allowed back into Australia until it is sure that the thing has fully burnt out.

God I am sick of noisy peanuts.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 27 October 2014 10:12:16 AM
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Total death toll to date from EVD is 4922 http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/137185/1/roadmapupdate25Oct14_eng.pdf?ua=1

It is actually quite a difficult disease to contract from people. During the incubation period, people are not infective and once symptoms start in earnest they are virtually immobile unless someone else takes them somewhere - like the 2 year old girl in Mali.

The problem is that the fatality rate is 50% or more. As a comparison, the fatality rate for Hendra Virus is 60%. It is this high fatality rate that has people (including governments) spooked
Posted by Agronomist, Monday, 27 October 2014 10:26:57 AM
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Agronomist,

Also the number of health care workers who have contracted the disease while tending patients.

Even in first world medical facilities - if strict protocol has been flouted even in a minor way.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 27 October 2014 10:31:32 AM
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One of the things about EVD is that humans are most infectious while they are dying or recently dead. Hence there is quite a high risk to health workers.

However, getting quality treatment in the early stages of the disease dramatically increases the survival rate.
Posted by Agronomist, Monday, 27 October 2014 11:14:22 AM
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Hasbeen: We should immediately give them a one way ticket, with the assurance that they are on their own, & will definitely not be allowed back into Australia until it is sure that the thing has fully burnt out.

Yep. I agree with that entirely.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 27 October 2014 12:52:18 PM
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The girl at the centre of the latest scare arrived with her family and intended to stay indefinitely, that leads me to conclude that they are well off Africans or that one parent is non African and they're over here to wait out the epidemic.
As Poirot pointed out, it's the poor and dumb people who are dying, the Africans with the wherewithal to take extended holidays overseas aren't likely to be sick.
There's another flock of chickens coming home to roost and another indictment of mass third world migration, though not the one you'd expect.
Something like half of all qualified African medical personnel are living out of their home countries, mostly in Europe and North America so imagine trying to fight an epidemic here with only half our doctors and nurses available for duty.
The "brain drain" caused by Western immigration policies has been called a crime against humanity before, now we see why.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Monday, 27 October 2014 2:09:42 PM
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A virus that scares the hell out of scientists is not one that should be dismissed lightly.

After years of scientific interest, the animals that are the reservoirs for the virus are not known. Bats are likely suspects. Bats (including flying foxes) can carry bacteria and viruses which can be serious for humans. For example, an estimated 1% of Australian bats carry lyssavirus (ABLV).

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/07/30/4056579.htm

Given that bacteria and viruses mutate, the reservoirs of Ebola are not known and the consequences of the virus becoming established elsewhere are horrendous, what should be the prudent risk treatments implemented by responsible governments?
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 27 October 2014 2:47:14 PM
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Now that a thing. 3rd World Students who come to Australia & become Doctors. They then stay instead of going home to help their country. They apply for Citizenship & it's granted for some bogus reason.

If these people went home these countries would have plenty of Doctors to deal with these situations. Do they have their Student Fees paid by their country or does Australia pay their Fees? I can't see some bright student just coming up with the money. Not going home to help their own country would be criminal.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 27 October 2014 3:43:21 PM
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Jayb,
No it's mostly graduates from Third World universities who emigrate and sit the exams and do their internships in the West, go to any city casualty department and you see loads of African and Indian doctors and nurses but up the chain your surgeon or specialist is likely to be White or Chinese.
The best idea would be to bring the graduates here on a five year work visa so they can get together enough money to set themselves up with a decent house and business premises in their home country and so they receive the training and make the professional connections to deliver quality care to their countrymen.
They could then be flown out to the West to attend conferences and undertake more training and with the internet available almost everywhere now they could stay in touch with their mentors and benefactors in the West.
Life in these countries is pretty tolerable, even good if you have a bit of money, maybe one of the NGO's could start a "sponsor a doctor/nurse" program, much like the child sponsorship drives.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Monday, 27 October 2014 4:03:57 PM
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JoM: The best idea would be to bring the graduates here on a five year work visa so they can get together enough money to set themselves up with a decent house and business premises in their home country.

Yair right. I'd like to see that. nice fantacy scenario but it ain't never gonna happen.

You're telling me that any Doctor, or any graduate, is going to voluntary go back to his own country rather than stay here. Baloney. They all apply to stay, & do.
Posted by Jayb, Monday, 27 October 2014 4:51:51 PM
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JoM,

"The best idea would be to bring the graduates here on a five year work visa so they can get together enough money to set themselves up with a decent house and business premises in their home country and so they receive the training and make the professional connections to deliver quality care to their countrymen..."

On subject, and addressing a threat like Ebola, being Western trained and setting up one's own practice in one's home country is pretty much ineffectual if that country hasn't the wherewithal to provide a a decent medical infrastructure.

What kind of "professional connection" would assist a doctor in Liberia who was in the forefront of treating Ebola?

I am fascinated that Hasbeen and Jayb think this virus will burn itself out over there. I certainly, don't think it's an immediate threat to Western countries as it stands, because of our fortunate position, however, there is reason to be concerned - what if this type of virus spreads to other more populous countries outside Africa...India or Indonesia would be good cases in point.

That's why it's wise to attack it vigorously at its source
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 27 October 2014 5:53:48 PM
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Quote, "if that country hasn't the wherewithal to provide a decent medical infrastructure"

That limits, but it doesn't render useless the skills of the trained doctor and nurses. The biggest problem is infection control, not treatment which while important and humane, must in an epidemic be secondary. Arguably more trained nurses to relieve the exhausted and overwhelmed staff, and to ensure that the infection control procedures are followed without exception, would be more beneficial than more doctors, although both are needed.

By way of comparison, Australia while a developed country has been (is) poorly equipped to handle the few (hoped few) Ebola suspects entering this country because of the usual problem of poor (and complicated!) coordination among the various public authorities and layers of government.
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 27 October 2014 6:29:24 PM
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otb,

Good points.

Recall my point about those villagers having to wait for days on end for someone to come and remove the old lady who was dying from Ebola. The ambulance that finally turned up was very modern. The staff had good equipment and clothing, etc...but obviously there are just not enough staff, equipment and ambulances on hand to deal with the onslaught, let alone facilities to deal with the sick and dying.

So while that situation remains, the infection will keep spreading. These countries need all the outside help they can get.

Interestingly, however, Nigeria which had a case or cases, kept its borders open to those countries affected so it could effectively monitor people entering. It managed to have no new cases for 42 days, so has been declared Ebola free.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 27 October 2014 6:45:44 PM
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I am far more worried about the threat of Ebola than any terrorist threat in Australia.
JayB and JoM couldn't give a damn about Ebola, but rather ensuring we have no more 'black Africans' coming to Australia....medical personnel or not.

This country has one of the best infection control systems in place in the world, and we are more than ready to handle any Ebola outbreaks, but surely it would be far brighter (and far less expensive in the long run) to send some of our expert medical teams to Africa to help stop it at the source?

But Tony isn't that bright....

Every single medical professional I have talked to agree that we should be more proactive at stopping Ebola in Africa.
If this Government wants to continue it's present plan to simply impose 'voluntary home quarantine' on those people returning from the trouble places in Africa, or imagine they can even know exactly where it's citizens went to while they were in Africa, then we will just wait for when, not if, Ebola makes it to our shores.

Talk about hiding their collective heads in the sand.....this Government is a disgrace!
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 27 October 2014 10:08:20 PM
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Suseonline,

Why haven't you volunteered?

Those Greens who are comfy in their government limos and jets but are over keen for others to go, what about them too?

Meanwhile, the real volunteers will be appreciative of the Australian government taking the prudent course and ensuring there is suitable hospital back-up for them. See here,

"Australia seeks hospital back-up for volunteers in Ebola-hit countries
As Coalition signals change in policy on relief workers, minister wants to ensure that Australians can call on western-run medical treatment"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/27/australia-seeks-hospital-back-up-volunteers-ebola-hit-countries

The Australian public would realise that the headline-hunting Greens and others are playing politics.
Posted by onthebeach, Monday, 27 October 2014 10:44:53 PM
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Greens, good at spending other peoples money and sending people where they are not prepared to go,
Posted by runner, Monday, 27 October 2014 10:48:05 PM
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otb...and you started off so well...

"Why haven't you volunteered?

Those Greens who are comfy in their government limos and jets but are over keen for others to go, what about them too?"

The govt has dragged their feet over this - and that's obvious. They appear to have wished it would all go away, seemingly preferring all the other rich (and not so rich) countries to do all the dirty work. Weeks ago there were doctors and other suitably trained health officials volunteering to offer their services - while the govt, at that stage, came out with mealy mouthed excuses for not even bothering to initiate arrangements for evacuation procedures with our friends in the northern hemisphere.

It looks like Asia is now preparing big time for any possible outbreak...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/world/asia/as-ebola-spreads-asia-senses-vulnerability.html?smid=tw-share

"Senior officials in China and India have been scrambling to prepare their countries’ medical systems to cope with possible cases. In India, top officials overseeing policy on health, civil aviation, shipping and other related issues met on Oct. 16 to coordinate plans. In China, the National Health and Family Planning Commission has called for medical institutions across the country to upgrade infection-control precautions by the end of this month.

“The first thing at the top of their minds now is Ebola,...

Dr. Peiris, who is best known as a leader in the fight against SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome, in 2003, said that flight and trade patterns between Asia and West Africa meant that five cities in the region would be at the front line in preventing Ebola from spreading: Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou in mainland China; Hong Kong, a semiautonomous Chinese territory; and Mumbai in India.”

runner,

"Greens, good at spending other peoples money and sending people where they are not prepared to go,"

Vacuous comment - people are volunteering, all they asked for was govt support.
Posted by Poirot, Monday, 27 October 2014 11:55:49 PM
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OTB "Why haven't you volunteered? "

I am not trained for that sort of work, and in any case you are apparently the volunteer expert on this forum, as you constantly trumpet about yourself.
You must surely feel humble in your own presence?

There are plenty of other health professionals who are trained in infectious diseases medicine who would be willing to go, but couldn't afford to take all that time off work unpaid, nor afford the expenses involved if they did volunteer.

Unless the Government agrees to fund them of course, and therein lies the problem..
Why is this Government willing to risk all our soldiers lives overseas in a war we can't win, but not let medical staff go to Africa to win the war against Ebola?
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 1:35:05 AM
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Suse, because war isn't a suicide mission, even really devastating conflicts such as the Russia-Germany war in the 1940's killed about 10% of the combatants, the mortality rate for ebola is over 50%.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 5:58:01 AM
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JoM,

"Suse, because war isn't a suicide mission, even really devastating conflicts such as the Russia-Germany war in the 1940's killed about 10% of the combatants, the mortality rate for ebola is over 50%."

That is not an accurate comparison.

To be accurate, one would have to deduce that 50% of those medical workers treating Ebola patients contract the disease.

It is notable that there is a high rate of patient to medical carer transference (especially in the African countries affected in the initial outbreak) - however it's nowhere near 50%.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 8:46:34 AM
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Poirot,
Military and civil defense commanders have to weigh up the odds of success BEFORE they commit to a course of action, the risk assessment carried out by the Australian government indicates it's too dangerous to order people into Sierra Leone and Guinea.
The obvious point to be taken from events in the U.S.A and Spain is that even first world medical workers are not up to the task of dealing with Ebola and that liberal democracy moves too slowly to protect it's citizens.
Look at North Korea, it sends thousands of people to work on aid and civil engineering projects in Africa and presumably takes in some African tourists and students yet it's the first government to ban non essential travel to the plague zones.
Why? Because the DPRK government is not accountable to "public opinion" so it can act swiftly and sensibly to protect the nation's bio-security.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 9:14:20 AM
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JoM,

Who said anything about "ordering" people to Those countries?

We have people trained who have volunteered their services.

Those instances of Ebola transference in first world facilities occurred when protocols were not strictly adhered to. There are now several cases where, when diagnosed early, medical workers in first world countries have been successfully managed and have made full recoveries.

You appear to realize the significance of this outbreak, yet dismiss the relevance of attacking it at its source.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 9:45:12 AM
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JoM has no idea what he is talking about.

The Government doesn't give a damn about whether our medical staff will be up for the task or not.
They are only concerned about the cost.

What they don't realise is that the cost of sending volunteers to the African areas affected by Ebola would be nothing compared to the cost of fighting it should it arrive on our shores....and that is only a matter of time.
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 10:09:22 AM
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Seal the countries & let it run it's course. These people are just out of the trees & are hindering the Health workers with their Local Witchdoctors etc. Something's, with all the best intentions, (someone should just talk to these people) just cannot be fixed.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 11:22:53 AM
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@Suseonline, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 1:35:05 AM

You say that as a nurse you are not trained 'for that work', yet you imagine that others are and they should have been sent off immediately. On the other hand there are, for example, managers of ICUs in the most prestigious hospitals in Australia and world-wide who have been saying that they are not prepared for Ebola. Specifically some (Australia) have said that yes, they could handle a limited number of influenza patients because that was in their risk planning and they have the gear (not a lot though), but not Ebola. They want the protocols, training and equipment, particularly the correct infection control gowns, masks and so on.

You say you talk with many medical specialists who agree with you on that. B.S.

You go on to declare that it is only meanness over money that prevents the Australian government from sending teams. Tat is an outrageous allegation.

You make it so obvious that you are a political partisan who has not accepted the outcome of the decision arrived at democratically in the last federal election.

Your political partisanship would see Australian medical and other employees directed to go in serious harm's way without the training, supplies and infrastructure to support them, and as the government has said many times, without any prospect of any suspected of contracting the virus being admitted to a proper hospital facility for observation and treatment.

Now I did ask earlier what risk management the government should have in place before sending Australian medical teams. Of course you and others ignore that and for the very obvious reason that you done't care enough and it doesn't suit your political attacks.

The rest of your diatribe was irrelevant.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 1:25:49 PM
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Lol Onthebeach....utter lies from you!
How the hell would you know who I have talked to about this subject?
Certainly I would have vastly more medical contacts than you.
As a good little volunteer yourself, why not go on over to Africa to help?

If the hospitals are given the money to pay for the resouces needed for an Ebola outbreak that would be fine, but this Government wants to continue putting it's holy head into the ground and pray it never happens.

All the 'training' in the world will never be as good as sending our own medical staff to the front line to work with current Ebola patients, so why aren' t they coughing up the money to do this?
The AMA are giving this stupid PM warnings, and have told him what he should do....
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 2:58:50 PM
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otb,

You are the master of misrepresentation and generalisation.

"Your political partisanship would see Australian medical and other employees directed to go in serious harm's way without the training, supplies and infrastructure to support them, and as the government has said many times, without any prospect of any suspected of contracting the virus being admitted to a proper hospital facility for observation and treatment."

You're as partisan as they come on this forum, so we'll ignore that.

"Directed"

Baloney!

No-one is being directed. Those with expertise in this area are volunteering their services to try and stem the spread of this virus.

And you wouldn't want a virus of the nature of Ebola to get away from you, even in a Western facility. There are only so many quarantine or bio-containment beds...but none of that seems to occur for apologists of this govt's disinterest in tackling Ebola at the source.

The govt of Australia, a rich country, had plenty of time to negotiate with other countries in the northern hemisphere to arrange healthcare in case of infection. They, no doubt, hopped straight to it, and arranged evacuation and care for any troops injured in their Iraqi foray.

They employed "we can't get 'em back" as an excuse - and are only now applying themselves after domestic and international condemnation of their apathetic approach to a serious biological threat.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 3:00:49 PM
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Suseonline,

As I recall it was you in another thread on the same subject who discounted Ebola at the time and spruiked miracle treatments and even vaccination on the immediate horizon.

Poirot,

Like Suseonline you are rather free with other people's money and dismissive of risks faced by volunteers and by medical and other staff in Australia.

To repeat, I did ask earlier what risk management the government should have in place before sending Australian medical teams. Of course you and others ignore that and for the very obvious reason that you don't care and it doesn't suit your political attacks.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 3:25:21 PM
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onthebeach wrote:

"Suseonline,

As I recall it was you in another thread on the same subject who discounted Ebola at the time and spruiked miracle treatments and even vaccination on the immediate horizon."

That is unlikely to be how most readers interpreted it. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6543&page=0
Posted by Agronomist, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 4:06:35 PM
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Quote (Suseonline): "Just like all recent pandemic infections, I would suggest scientists would come up with a mass immunization program to contain the infection in one area before it spread too far.

They already have cured some doctors with Ebola, so it is only a matter of time before mass-produced effective medicines are available."

I said that opinion was upbeat at the time and that remains my opinion.

My question remains unanswered: "What risk management should the government have in place before sending Australian medical teams?".
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 4:38:42 PM
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poirot: The govt of Australia, a rich country,
SoL: so why aren't they coughing up the money to do this?

Australia used to be a rich country. Now the Australia can't support its own Schools & Hospitals or maintain its Infrastructure because we keep wasting the jizya Tax (Foreign Aid, $9 Billion +) on Countries that can completely renew their Armed Forces. (18 new Submarines, +++, etc)

Why does Australia have to be involved on the ground? We can do much better in the Laboratory here. Something which Australia is very good at.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 4:47:39 PM
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Jayb,

"Why does Australia have to be involved on the ground? We can do much better in the Laboratory here. Something which Australia is very good at."

Well, it's funny that you should bring that up, because not only is the Abbott Govt tardy in its actions to assist the world in tackling Ebola at its source, it also decided to target Australian Ebola scientists in its "let's cull the CSIRO" crusade.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-14/researchers-hunting-ebola-cure-scrapped-under-budget-cuts/5669842

"Australian research into a vaccine for the deadly Ebola virus will suffer as a result of federal budget cuts, CSIRO staff say.

The Federal Government has cut more than $110 million from the research organisation's budget and as a result up to eight researchers will lose their jobs at the Australian Animal Health Laboratory (AAHL) in Geelong, Victoria.

Scientists at the facility are trying to find a vaccine for Ebola, that has killed hundreds of people in West Africa since an outbreak began in February.

The researchers at the AAHL had recently acquired a live strain of the virus that had swept through the region."

http://cpsu-csiro.org.au/2014/08/13/csiro-to-cut-research-into-infectious-disease-and-biosecurity/

"Government cuts to science are set to hit CSIRO’s ground-breaking research into infectious disease with up to eight researchers at Geelong’s Australian Animal Health Laboratory (AAHL) set to lose their jobs."

"The high-containment facility is home to important research that is critical to protecting Australia from Avian Influenza, SARS and the Hendra virus.

“These latest cuts to CSIRO are particularly illogical and short-sighted.” said CSIRO Staff Association Secretary Sam Popovski.

“AAHL has a world-class reputation for research into zoonotic diseases ; viruses that can be passed from animals to humans. This is terrible news for hardworking researchers who are dedicated to keeping Australians – indeed the world’s population – safe from illness.” Mr Popovski said."

otb,

The Abbott Govt was busy tooting its Iraq horn and ratcheting up its terror hysteria...and thought it could shrug off requests for assistance by the rest of the world in confronting Ebola.

It found it couldn't in all good conscience do that.

So "now" it is looking into risk management for medical teams.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 5:24:48 PM
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Poirot: with up to eight researchers at Geelong’s Australian Animal Health Laboratory (AAHL) set to lose their jobs."

That'll make all the Greenies, PC's & PETA happy won't it.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 5:30:00 PM
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Jayb, I am unsure whether your ignorance is real or feigned. I am not sure how anyone with a modicum of knowledge could make the post you did.

The Animal Health Laboratories spend their efforts in understanding and managing animal diseases.
Posted by Agronomist, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 5:51:33 PM
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Agro: I am unsure whether your ignorance is real or feigned.

Opps! I thought it was a place where they used animals for experiments. Another look & I can see I had the bull by the horns. Apologies to poirot as well.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 8:03:05 PM
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Poirot, "(Government) is looking into risk management for medical teams"

Pleased to hear that, a comprehensive risk assessment is required and a risk management plan, which would I hope to made available to informed medical and scientific experts for consultation.

It would not be reasonable to send volunteers without that in place.

A knee-jerk reaction as demanded by the Greens for example would have been fraught with all sorts of problems. Like a mob of helpers arriving at a chemical fire and all rushing in, resulting in multiplication of injuries that have to be handled, and all back to square one.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 8:44:33 PM
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Onthebeach, you neglected to post the next comment on my other post re Ebola :
"It is in ours, and other large countries interests, to send medical help to these war-torn, 3rd world areas so we can fight this sort of infection before it gets to us."

At no time did I suggest we shouldn't worry about Ebola because we will have a vaccine soon.....because it may take awhile.
Until that time, we can't ignore the threat.

Who better than the Australian Medical Association to tell the Government how to go forward in this issue?
They have done this on numerous occasions, and this Government, like you, think they know better than the doctors!
Pure ignorance.

Who will they run to when the faecal matter ( with Ebola bugs insitu) hits the fan here in Australia? The medical professionals and scientists....
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 8:59:10 PM
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Suseonline,

Please read my post above. It probably escaped your attention while drafting.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 9:05:09 PM
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otb,

Here's an example of a nation "stepping up".

http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/ud/press/news/2014/fight_ebola.html?id=768563
(Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs)

"Norway is doubling its support for the fight against Ebola, and will be contacting the UN, the UK Government and other relevant actors to offer personnel and equipment for their operations. A new contribution of NOK 89 million brings Norway’s total funding for the fight against Ebola to just over NOK 184 million.

‘The situation is critical in the West African countries that are affected by the disease. The outbreak is spreading faster than the response. Efforts need to be significantly and rapidly stepped up in order to stop the outbreak,’ said Minister of Foreign Affairs Břrge Brende."

"‘Preparations are underway to provide air transport for personnel and equipment if needed. We have entered into an agreement on the use of civilian air ambulance capacity from the US and other countries for evacuating Norwegian citizens in the event of suspected or confirmed Ebola infection. We are also seeking to make a C-130 Hercules aircraft available as a back-up solution,’ said Minister of Defence Ine Eriksen Sřreide.

The new allocation represents a doubling of Norway’s support for the efforts to fight Ebola. Norway’s contribution now totals NOK 184.2 million, including the NOK 15 million allocated to the UN Central Emergency Response Fund (CERF).

In recent weeks, the Ministry of Health and Care Services, in collaboration with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Ministry of Defence, the Ministry of Justice and Public Security and the Ministry of Transport and Communications, has drawn up measures to address the Ebola outbreak, including preparedness for evacuation of infected persons and assistance to the affected countries in West Africa."

"The allocation from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will make it possible to provide personnel and equipment for the efforts in West Africa. Some of the allocation will also be given in the form of funding to the UN, the Red Cross and other NGOs."

Th Australian government needs to get its act together and, in concert with other first world countries, make arrangements for evacuation procedures.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 9:14:43 PM
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otb: A knee-jerk reaction as demanded by the Greens for example would have been fraught with all sorts of problems. Like a mob of helpers arriving at a chemical fire and all rushing in, resulting in multiplication of injuries that have to be handled, and all back to square one.

I agree. Australia is too far away from the Infection Area. & there are other Countries that can handle the situation on the ground.
As I said before Australia is better at doing something Australia is good at, finding cures & Vaccines for diseases'. That can be a Australia's part of the World Offensive on Ebola.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 9:24:41 PM
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Jayb,

"As I said before Australia is better at doing something Australia is good at, finding cures & Vaccines for diseases'. That can be a Australia's part of the World Offensive on Ebola."

Are you a little dippy....you've just been informed that the Abbott govt has cut funding to CSIRO ending research into Ebola - research which was already underway.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-14/researchers-hunting-ebola-cure-scrapped-under-budget-cuts/5669842

So far the govt has dithered - and cut research funds...

That's what it's done to fight the spread of this virus.
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 9:32:39 PM
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Poirot,

The report implies the decision was CSIRO management's (which it would have been), see here,

<The Federal Government has cut more than $110 million from the research organisation's budget and as a result up to eight researchers will lose their jobs at the Australian Animal Health Laboratory (AAHL) in Geelong, Victoria>

Obviously CSIRO management has given priority to other research (some mentioned in the article).

Of course the government could take some money from the rather fat national broadcaster that duplicates other information channels and give that to medical researchers and earmarked for Ebola.

Would you countenance putting Ebola research ahead of talk fests on the ABC though?
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 10:04:37 PM
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As I've noted before,it is the panic in the picture theatre which kills more than the fire. However Prof Francis Boyle who wrote the laws to stop the weaponisation of disease says they are weaponising Ebola and have combined it with the Flu. See the link below.

http://www.infowars.com/bio-weapons-expert-ebola-outbreak-is-a-bio-weapon-release/
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 5:26:26 AM
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otb,

The Govt is already making cuts to the ABC...something the "oh-so-honest" Abbott told us in no uncertain terms the "night before" the election that they were definitely NOT going to do.

Lol!

.............

Arjay,

"....they are weaponising Ebola and have combined it with the Flu. See the link below."

Double Lol!
Posted by Poirot, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 8:16:53 AM
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I second those Lol's Poirot!

I will add that little Tones is again adding to his list of broken promises that he appears to be considering raising the GST.
Maybe he is thinking about raising money to deal with Ebola after all?
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 10:18:22 AM
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So Poirot and Susan online display more of their ignorance. Prof Francis Boyle went to Harvard with some of these criminals. He names the infamous Larry Somers as one. He has been combating them for decades. His wrote the laws in the USA which makes it illegal to weaponise diseases. George Bush senior signed off on theses laws.

Obama currently ignores the Constitution and legalises assassination. We see new laws here protecting our intelligence agencies and their associates from any investigation.

So if derision is your tool of choice at least have some facts to back it up. Being incredulous does not make for an argument.
Do yourselves and favour and hear what he has to say.
http://www.infowars.com/bio-weapons-expert-ebola-outbreak-is-a-bio-weapon-release/
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 10:57:15 AM
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I believe that the Ebola crisis has got out of control. Its slowly spreading everywhere, taking lives and slowly ruining peoples lives.
Posted by Tal, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 12:32:17 PM
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Youtube has taken my last link down. Here is a new one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2leY7IwvfA

Insurance companies now have Ebola exclusions. They do their risk assessments very carefully. Here is Prof Francis A Boyle's credentials. He is not intellectual lightweight and has been tracking these fascist criminals since their mutual Harvard days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Boyle
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 6:52:06 PM
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Hurr-rup! We have a new Conspiracy Theory. Well done to Arjay for ferreting that one out. Any more around that you can share with us.

All the more reason for not letting anyone into Australia that has been anywhere near anywhere in Africa for the last 3 months.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 29 October 2014 8:20:57 PM
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The CDC has now changed its guidelines on Ebola. They are now saying that it can travel through the air like the common cold. So people like Prof Francis Boyle have been vindicated and my detractors with no facts or logic to back their derision,looking like fools.

About a month ago I posted on Tony Abbott's facebook that he needed to act on Ebola immediately. Just 200 cases here will send the public into a panic and no one will travel on public transport. The panic will kill more than the disease.

Thankfully the Abbott Govt has stopped travel to Aust from Ebola affected countries but the USA has not done so. The CDC hold patents on Ebola. Why?

If Ebola becomes a real problem in the USA, will this ban also apply to US citizens ?
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 31 October 2014 5:51:34 AM
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Dear Arjay,

<<If Ebola becomes a real problem in the USA, will this ban also apply to US citizens ?>>

Viruses do not recognise citizenship: as the situation escalates, unless sufficient quantities of the new vaccines are available on time, Australia is going to close its borders to everyone and everything, including returning Australian citizens.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 31 October 2014 11:16:15 AM
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Yutsie: Australia is going to close its borders to everyone and everything, including returning Australian citizens.

Sounds like a plan. I hope that includes all those infectious people from the Middle East.
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 31 October 2014 11:21:24 AM
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The CDC is not saying Ebola virus "can travel through the air like common cold".

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html

"When an infection does occur in humans, the virus can be spread in several ways to others. Ebola is spread through direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth) with

blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola

objects (like needles and syringes) that have been contaminated with the virus

infected fruit bats or primates (apes and monkeys)

Ebola is not spread through the air or by water, or in general, by food. However, in Africa, Ebola may be spread as a result of handling bushmeat (wild animals hunted for food) and contact with infected bats. There is no evidence that mosquitos or other insects can transmit Ebola virus."
Posted by Agronomist, Friday, 31 October 2014 11:30:01 AM
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Isn't it interesting that one of the US "do-gooder" nurses, who has been off helping the Ebola stricken poor, treats her own countrymen withy contempt.

She has refused to comply with a home isolation period, & has been riding her bicycle around the place.

As a supposedly trained nurse she should know what she is doing, but evidently "doing good" in some African swamp, & her civil rights, is more important to her than her fellow countrymen. You just can't trust do gooders to behave rationally.

And some still wonder why we don't want any physical connection with the Ebola areas.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 31 October 2014 11:34:34 AM
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Hasbeen,

I believe a period of quarantine is absolutely warranted in the case of health workers returning from Ebola affected areas in Africa.

This nurse is acting irresponsibly.

I believe there were some hefty stand-over tactics enacted by officials when some US states first implemented quarantine, and this soured the whole strategy.

I believe returning health workers should be treated with respect in these circumstances for they are ultimately assisting to attack the virus at its source - and in effect protecting their fellow countrymen.

This nurse will only achieve a more hardline policy from authorities by her reckless actions.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 31 October 2014 11:44:11 AM
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Now that Kaci Hickox is not in New Jersey, there is no legislative requirement for her to be in quarantine. There is also no scientific reason she should be in quarantine as she has tested negative for the virus and has no symptoms.

She is required by her contract with MSF to take her temperature twice a day and to report any fever to a designated hospital.
Posted by Agronomist, Friday, 31 October 2014 11:57:06 AM
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If you want an Ebola story to get worked up about, you could try this one http://homeopathycenter.org/news/ebola-crisis-homeopathic-community

"The good news is that a small international team of experienced and heroic homeopaths have arrived in West Africa, and are currently on the ground working hard to examine patients, work out the “genus epidemicus,” and initiate clinical trials."

I haven't heard of anything so stupid in quite some time.
Posted by Agronomist, Friday, 31 October 2014 12:15:00 PM
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Agronomist,

Yeah, I should read the detail before commenting : )

If she's tested negative and shows no symptoms, one would think she doesn't require quarantining this far down the track.

Why is she required to look out for fever - if she's tested negative...can it flair up even if it hasn't shown up in tests thus far?
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 31 October 2014 12:24:59 PM
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She is required to look out for fever as a condition of her contract. The potential period between exposure and symptoms for Ebola virus disease is 2 to 21 days, but most commonly 8 to 10 days.

There is a small possibility that her tests could come back negative, due to low serum virus titres, despite being infected. This would usually be in the first few days after exposure and before symptoms will appear. Hickox has been back in the US for 7 days having left West Africa 10 days ago, has been tested twice and shows no symptoms. It is highly unlikely she has Ebola virus.
Posted by Agronomist, Friday, 31 October 2014 1:42:06 PM
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Hasbeen: She has refused to comply with a home isolation period, & has been riding her bicycle around the place.

You can't do that to me, I'm an American, Ah, have raights!
Posted by Jayb, Friday, 31 October 2014 1:55:18 PM
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Cause to wonder if she made up her own mind about the infection control protocols while overseas too.

Perhaps she is rather fortunate to be riding her bike and getting publicity. She should be buying a lottery ticket, in a family member's name.
Posted by onthebeach, Friday, 31 October 2014 2:17:39 PM
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So the CDC has retreated from its latest view of Ebola being airborne but WHO sees a need for sneeze protection. So first the CDC says it cannot travel through the air then they say it can,then retreats on their latest edict of being airborne.The CDC is looking like a very incompetent and compromised organisation.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/who-urges-sneeze-protection-while-cdc-retreats/
Posted by Arjay, Saturday, 1 November 2014 6:53:10 AM
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It might help going to the source of the information, rather than playing Chinese whispers with conspiracy theory sites.

This is what the WHO said:

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/06-october-2014/en/

"The Ebola virus is transmitted among humans through close and direct physical contact with infected bodily fluids, the most infectious being blood, faeces and vomit."

...

"The Ebola virus can also be transmitted indirectly, by contact with previously contaminated surfaces and objects. The risk of transmission from these surfaces is low and can be reduced even further by appropriate cleaning and disinfection procedures."

...

"Ebola virus disease is not an airborne infection. Airborne spread among humans implies inhalation of an infectious dose of virus from a suspended cloud of small dried droplets.

This mode of transmission has not been observed during extensive studies of the Ebola virus over several decades."

...

"Theoretically, wet and bigger droplets from a heavily infected individual, who has respiratory symptoms caused by other conditions or who vomits violently, could transmit the virus – over a short distance – to another nearby person."
Posted by Agronomist, Saturday, 1 November 2014 1:16:52 PM
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Agro WHO is saying that it is possible to catch a virus via sneezing and coughing but this is rare. You have not read their article. They are splitting hairs over what constitutes airborne and saying it cannot be contracted this way. It is full of contradictions. Why did not the CDC stop travel from Ebola affected countries like Aust ?

Here is a quote from WHO "Saliva and tears may also carry some risk. However, the studies implicating these additional bodily fluids were extremely limited in sample size and the science is inconclusive. In studies of saliva, the virus was found most frequently in patients at a severe stage of illness. The whole live virus has never been isolated from sweat" Why have they not done proper studies on transmission via the air ? Why have the studies been limited ? They are covering their backsides.

Prof Francis Boyle says he has evidence they have crossed the flu with Ebola.

Why does the CDC have patents on Ebola ?
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 2 November 2014 7:09:15 AM
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Drs Without Borders report entire villages disappearing in Sierra Leone. Deaths could be 2.5 times official reports.
http://rt.com/news/201567-ebola-sierra-leone-toll-underreported/
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 2 November 2014 3:57:03 PM
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Arjay, I know this is wasted on you, but the WHO is suggesting a possible transmission if a symptomatic patient vomits or sneezes in your face. The distance these large droplets traverse is very short.

So how on Earth are they going to do proper studies of transmission by air? Are you going to volunteer to have an EVD patient to sneeze in your face and see if you come down with EVD?
Posted by Agronomist, Sunday, 2 November 2014 5:24:41 PM
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agro: The distance these large droplets traverse is very short.

Come on. Studies say, even a pee in the toilet the droplets travel 3 meters.
Posted by Jayb, Sunday, 2 November 2014 5:35:56 PM
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http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/ebola-australian-government-relents-will-send-civilian-volunteers-to-treat-victims-20141104-11grgy.html

"The Abbott government is set to announce that it will assist several hundred Australian expert volunteers to travel to one of the Ebola hotspots of Africa to help control the epidemic.

The government has struck an agreement to manage a British field hospital in Sierra Leone, according to diplomatic sources. An official announcement is expected on Wednesday."

"The government agreed to contribute to the international effort to halt the epidemic at source only after making evacuation plans for any Australian volunteer who might become infected.

Britain has agreed to treat Australian volunteers as if they were their own, officials said.

Any infected Australian worker would be evacuated to Britain for treatment. There is also provision for access to treatment in Germany under a British arrangement.

Australia's operation is to be chiefly a civilian one, operating under British military aegis.

The Abbott government plan will allow hundreds of medical, logistics and security volunteers from Australia to staff and manage the field hospital under a private contractor at any one time.

The volunteers would be rotated back to Australia and replaced regularly."
Posted by Poirot, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 5:07:07 PM
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