Yuyutsu,

How do you know I’ve had no experience of what you describe?

<<Sorry, but how can I possibly describe something you have no experience of?>>

I was once very religious and believed myself to have had a lot of “experiences”. The only difference now is that I understand that there were rational reasons for those experiences. They can even be seen by monitoring brain activity. Die hard Apple fans have the same experiences when they see or think about Apple products. Sometimes religious experiences can be the result of mental illness. Temporal lobe epilepsy can cause them too. Have you ruled that out yet?

<<[The common experience is]Unity with God.>>

Okay, but if you can’t describe what this “unity with God” is to someone who has never experienced it, then how were you able to determine that that was in fact what you had experienced the first time you experienced it? Furthermore, how can you assume that others have had this experience as well if none of you can describe it to each other? A wink and a nod?

<<Why, there is a rational explanation, for those who care to listen, but a dry intellectual/rational idea doesn't solve ontological anxiety, whereas the direct-experience, aimed by religion, does.>>

So, there *is* a rational explanation, but you either don’t think I’ll listen, or you’re concerned about any ontological anxiety I may be experiencing? But before, you said someone who hasn’t experienced it couldn’t possibly have it described to them.

I think there’s a bit of ducking and weaving going on here because you have no idea of what it is that you’re talking about, and you sure as heck don’t want me to know either.

<<It's the experience itself which relieves all anxiety, pain and death. Had the direct-experience of God been absent, there would be no need to ever mention "religion" as a separate category.>>

That didn’t answer my question at all. It more sidestepped it. But thanks anyway.

Continued…

…Continued

<<This is where we disagree: religion is universal, but is adjusted to cultural conditions, climate, genetics, etc.>>

Then when each of us says “religion”, we are referring to something different. I’m talking about what everyone else in the world refers to as religion; you, on the other hand, are referring to a concept that you have not yet rationally justified. So we don’t necessarily disagree at all. You are simply sidestepping what I said there by talking about something completely different and pretending it addresses my point.

As for the Einstein story, I’m not sure why mystics on this forum feel they need to invoke Einstein whenever they have no idea of what it is that they’re talking about. Maybe it makes them feel like they do. Nevertheless I enjoyed the story. It is not, however, an analogy for our discussion as you have made no attempt to explain what it is you're talking about and nor do I think you know.

Or are you supposed to be the blind person who (through some divine inspiration) made a series of impossible connections to understand what "milk" is (with the milk representing God)?

I also hope Einstein never actually told that story to anyone. It would have been extremely presumptuous and condescending to assume that the other person could not have understood his theory.

Mr runner tries to write a personal putdown with "yep May May, and your so called superstitution makes your wisdom look very silly". That's not very Christian of you Mr runner.

Well Mr runner, pray tell what is my "superstitution" (sic)? I can hardly wait for the answer. Oh by the way, please make sure your answer is factual and relates specifically to "me".

Is Mise, you are being a wee bit simplistic about Irish history I think.
Naturally it was also an Irish versus English conflict as well as a religious one.
Most members of the IRA were Catholic, but were not always Irish, as they came from around the world back to Ireland to help in the fight against the English Protestants.

My husband is from the Irish Republic, from a town that was always an IRA stronghold throughout the 'troubles'.
The first time I went to this town, I was always asked if I was Catholic, by complete strangers. I was told to say I was, to avoid any 'problems'.

My ancestors were predominantly from Ireland as well.
I have studied my family history back to the 1500's, so I am impressed you have gone back so far in your family!

Both sides of the conflict had violent terrorist members.
I know this because I was in both England and Ireland when bombs went off in both countries. We were every bit as scared as anyone is of the terrorists today.

Suse,

I've lived in the Republic of Ireland and I never heard of anyone caring a hoot about what someone's religion was, here's an example from a town near Galway; it was Christmas, 1978, and we were at the 10 am Mass.
There were people over from the US for the holidays and one of them was standing at the back of the church with his brother and me.
A local came in and went towards the choir but merely nodded his head towards the altar.
The visitor inquired of his brother "Why didn't that fella genuflect?"
"Sure you wouldn't expect him to" he answered, "He's our Presbyterian Minister".

He was indeed and I knew him well, his wife, who was the choir mistress, was a Catholic from Belfast and he was from Scotland and when they married he had to get out to save his life, so they moved into a 99% Catholic area for his safety. He sang in the choir.

Well I lived there in the southwest of Ireland where my husband is from for a year in 1988.
Many of them asked me was I Catholic, and I remember being shocked because no one ever asked me that in Australia unless I was filling in the census.
I certainly never discussed my dislike of the violent members of the IRA.

They used to have boxes collecting money for the 'cause' outside the church at Easter.
Protestants were most definitely frowned upon in that part of Ireland for sure.
I never mentioned to anyone that though my mum was Catholic, my father was Protestant!