May May,

Thank you for the long explanation as to why your statement "no gods exist" was not a factual statement and that you may (may) have been wrong.
It is rather silly to make a statement as though it were fact and then explain why the statement cannot be fact.

Dear Joe,

The same questions are bugging me too. I wish I had the answers!

If we had the answers, backed by evidence, then Islamic terrorism and abuse of women would be ended very quickly, by proving to all lovers of Muhammad that such bad acts are not mandated by him.

<<Was the Koran passed on to Muhammad word-for-word as the literal word of Allah?>>

Extremely unlikely.

<<So which bits were passed on to this illiterate businessman in his cave, and which bits did the illiterate businessman add afterwards?>>

That's the million-dollar question!

Most likely, he had a profound direct experience of God - which isn't verbal, then he assembled the words himself to try to communicate this experience to others, as best he could.

<<And which bits were added after Muhammad?>>

Obviously quite a bit, certainly the violent parts. A man who discovered and taught such profound methods of worship was very unlikely to also teach violence. Most likely, he was framed.

<<And, for good measure, which bits were already floating around in desert Arab culture long before all that, amongst the Jewish and Christian tribes, and which bits were appropriated, perhaps in a garbled form, from their religious books, the Bible and the Halacha?>>

There's probably some of this too. For example the prohibition on eating pork and the circumcision of boys (no later than the age of 13, because that's according to Genesis, is when Yishmael, Abraham's son and progenitor of the Arab tribes, was circumcised). Also, rumours are that the number of daily prayers in Islam is 5 because it's the average of the Jewish (3) and the Christian (7).

But whether those instructions were introduced into Islam by Muhammad himself, is very hard to tell.

Dear May,

It's becoming too long and tedious, so allow me to go back to the basics and rephrase:

By repeatedly saying that "no gods/god exist" you are bursting into an open door.

God's existence is not required for religion.

On the contrary: from a spiritual perspective, existence is unimportant and the lack of God's existence allows me to love and worship Him even more.

Had God existed, then our relationship with Him would become business-like, give-and-take, a bartering system: we worship and obey you thus and you in return send us the rain, heal our sick, grant us strong sons and beautiful daughters and when we die give us 72 virgins in heaven. How shallow would that be!

Fortunately, as He doesn't, our relationship can remain pure and we can just love Him unconditionally and worship Him purely with no desires attached.

Sadly, most of the establishments that were set for the purpose of forwarding religion, have forgotten this simple truth.

Yuyustu, you're not nearly as "deep" as you "think" you are. Your self invented philosophy is full of flaws, I've pointed them out, obviously you'll never ever change no matter what, so we'll leave it there. Have a nice life. Bye.

Is Mise, you're still finding it difficult to comprehend it, or purposely choose to "pretend" you don't comprehend. That's fine, Like Yuyutsu, you'll never change no matter what. So you too have a lovely life, full of joy and happiness. And by the way, no gods exist. Bye.

AJ Philips, yes I kind of eventually concluded that. By twisting and altering logical perceptions into illogical perceptions by basing the altered view on the "initial" logic used, some people (like "you know who") can argue nonsense endlessly, and be utterly convinced that their arguments are logical. It's a bit harder for me to pick them out as I haven't been here very long. Have a good day.

May May,

You're the one who made a statement of fact and then proved that the statement was not factual, so sleep on it and come back and tell us all that there is a possibility that you may be wrong, or you may be right but the only ascertainable fact is that you can't (as you explained) prove it either way
What you should have said is that "there may be no god".

You find it really offensive when someone doesn't agree with your belief don't you Is Mise. That's ok. Really, it's ok. "Pretending" not to comprehend what someone else says is also ok. No need to get your panties in a knot. Have a nice life, and may Zeus bless you with His everlasting grace. Hang on, I mean Apollo. Wait a second, better still Aphrodite, after all She's your Goddess. Bye.