Dear Aime :) cause me mental anguish ? .. good grief.. yep.. about as much as your words would cause the man born blind who Jesus healed and responded to the Pharisees "Don't you know this man is a sinner"?
with "Whether he is a sinner I don't know, but one thing I do know.... I was blind..but now I see"....

You don't need to worry about hurting my feelings.. but thanx for the concern.
I read your post carefully... and would like to pick up on one point.
You mentioned 'proof'... can I offer the idea of 'legal proof' against 'scientific' proof ? The testimony of Witnesses is something we hang/or not hang people on (figuratively speaking) We shape our national destiny of the basis of reports etc..
If only we could spend some time in Bible study.. I warmly recommend a thorough study of New Testament background.. and the letters of Paul. Sometimes little pearls of 'self evident truth' crop up in amazing ways. You can see the living connection between the writer and other peoples lives.. do a topical study on DEMAS and see where his name crops up..its fascinating.

Yes, or course we can agree to disagree, but still, with the safe distance of the forum between us, there is surely room for some civil back and forth which might challenge both of us?

Sarah.. I am sometimes rather harsh on your views, please don't take it personally. I hear what ur saying, but the problems are far more complex than simply 'Howard this and/or that'... if you find an old thread of mine (which didn't have much outside interest) on "Cherbourg" you might see the depths of the problem, and also a solution.

My solution and vision/dream is found in "ONE NATION, ONE CULTURE ONE RACE...FULL STOP" thread.. which is deliberately designed to be controversial.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=164#3027
I don't believe any of us are racially 'less' than others, that thread shows why.

Many of us believe we are all descended from Adam and Eve so is distressing to see so many of our cousins arguing their lineage is worth more than anothers.

Boazy old son when are you going to respond to my query in a previous post? how do you reconcile your vilifaction and hatred of other religons and races, in light of Jesus's 11th commandment "that ye shall love one another" John 13:34-35?.

Our founding fathers should read: 'English constitution adopting' Fathers.

'Of course we need a Bill of Rights or a Charter of Rights. It is just a matter of completing the business of Federation, which was never sufficiently resolved.' ( Ain't that the truth.)

What is needed is a real Australian Constitution, created by the honourable citizens of Australia for the peoples of Australia.

No more b.s. about being sworn in with the use of any name from any Queen who has no more power over foreign people.

Any "Australian poli who was sworn in under the Queen's name is a foreign agent."

"just my Eureka coin's worth "

Alan.. its difficult to respond to something I don't stand for mate.

I'll quote you so I'm spot on here..

[how do you reconcile your vilifaction and hatred of other religons and races, in light of Jesus's 11th commandment "that ye shall love one another" John 13:34-35?.]

I criticize only 'religions' (Particularly Islam)..not races.
People were....

1/ Born with it,.. too difficult to question it... its their culture. -They have my sympathy.

2/ Those who have converted, based usually on limited, sugar coated information, by Islamic web sites and promotional brochures. This group is simply 'sucked in'.. and have my sympathy.

3/ Those who have come from a violent or criminal background, and found in Islam a focus for their rage, and no contradiction between the faith and their predisposition to violence. These are enemies of our laws and our state.

4/ Those who are simply 'extremists' in the sense of regarding the Quran as 'the absolute word of allah' for all time. Who work towards a goal of establishing Sharia law in Australia and an Islamic Caliphate.
This group is my absolute enemy and the enemy of this country.
While I'm prepared to offer the love which Christ spoke of, I am also prepared to 'tell it like it is' in terms of Pauls denunciation of 'a different gospel' in Galatians 1 (please read the chapter)

It should be remembered though, that Paul was speaking to Christians when he said this.. so I don't take it as my que to tell such people 'TURRRRN OR BURRRRRN' so to speak. But I will unapologetically point out reasons why I feel Mohammad was :
a) Not from God
b) Not a prophet
c) Not to be followed or believed.

When Jesus spoke of what you describe as the 11th commandment.. he was in reality summing up the last 6 commandments and saying "This is what they mean...."love others as you would have them love you" and if I had cancer, I'd prefer the Doc told me before it became terminal.

Saintfletcher said: "The foundation of this country was on the premise of defending the country from the "yellow peril" and at the same time, some how upholding the virtues of a modern democracy. Founders such as Deakin (from the white Australia movement: ANA) and Parkes (well known megalomaniac) were not ashamed at all about their racist agendas."

What an absolute load of revisionist nonsense.

Nation-states are political expressions of a "nation", with a "nation" defined as a specific ethno-cultural community. That's why, even today, most nation-states impose immigration controls in order to retain their respective ethnic and cultural majorities.

Australia was founded as an off-shoot of British civilisation. Its culture, traditions and institutions were British derived. The overwhelming majority of its people originated from the British Isles. In a democracy, societies have always had the fundamental right to determine who should belong to them. Therefore, I fail to see how concerns about "yellow peril" were mutually exclusive with democracy.

From my perspective, Australia's founding fathers were merely seeking to preserve the country's British characteristics. Thus, concern about "yellow peril" was driven more by self-preservation than egregious racism.