Live stock export has been a contorversal topic for some time now. I am doing a report on live stock export and i think that it should be continued. I would like to hear your opinions what ever they are.

Goday Dave


You don’t say why you think it should be continued? Perhaps if you told us a bit more of your argument in favor of live exports others could have some of level debate.
One reason for taking another look at the options Dave would be to consider the regional areas. Are you a live exporter yourself Dave?
Especially where you have a large Range of aboriginal people.
They need a future for their kids and steady income for their families. Plants or abattoirs bring others into play. It affects transport Dr Services small biz tanneries tourism to name a few. Are you running a station or know someone who is?
When you export an animal alive Dave you export it in its most valuable form. If you value add to that product and slaughter where you are you can open small goods factories using the bi product or get of the animals. This is termed value adding and it is what every country looks for to create employment for their people.
The people living in your area would be far better served to have many abattoirs tanneries, small good factories to create future employment for their people.
Also several agriculture educations schools around that area would be a huge draw card for international and local students.

We are interested in areas like yours for these types of ventures.
Be good to hear a bit more about you and where you are.

If you take a moment to click below it tells you a bit more.

http://www.halakindmeats.com/

Yo its good to have somebody else comment on the topic
Cheers mate

Dave,
Live export provides a benchmark value for the animals, and competiton amongst purchasers resulting in better returns for all farmers not just those live exporting.

Hassel & Associates did a study:
http://www.mla.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/E4B338BE-B543-47EE-8E1A-2AE80F4A070F/0/TheLiveExportIndustryValueOutlookandContributiontotheEconomyExecutiveSummaryJuly2006p.pdf

While it would be preferable to value add in Australia, the live export industry should continue until there is enough domestic demand to make it uneconomic to live export.

So until the time that live exporters can no longer afford to pay the prices offered by Australian meat processors, they have my support. As the above poster said
"When you export an animal alive Dave you export it in its most valuable form"

Dave
To be honest what Rojo means is most valuable form to the 'middle man' agent not the Australian People. Farmers were victims of having the wool pulled over their eyes years ago and it is going to take some time to re open our small good factories and abattoirs.
The real reason they buy them live is for the jobs for their people. Tans and hides and outlets manufactoring factories with those same tans and hides. Do you have any idea how much employment spins off from bi- products.

Yo mate we dont even own the dam ships. How clever is that. More jobs gone with the wind. Anyway Dave These lies about they got no fridges and they must have them alive for some sort of riutual is bull.
Thats all old Porkie that some cowboy came up with years ago when some libbers first brought the cruelty to the attention of public. The scarey part is that The Minister beleived it at the time. Funny as they guys thought.
Speaking of ships Dave and aboriginal people you really ought to look at the counter argument.
You know we have a ships built overseas when our coutry is surrounded by water.
What we need is their own business set up to run and jobs schools and inderpendance.
I am really angry that we have people in Australia living like some of these aboriginal people do Dave.

So if we ask The Aboriginal leaders to arrange meetings with some of the people and give them their own inderpendance to run stations with abattoirs and small goods factories it will bring more business into those areas also.
Bush tucker and smoked meats and cosmetics[non animal tested] in their own names is what these people need.

They have a natual stage to market those products to the world.
We have to allow them to run their own plants from the farm by growing the animals through to having factories producing their own brands of hundreds of products made from the bi of the animals.

Dave I also agree with live exports. I personally don't see much difference between killing them here in our country as opposed to another. If we don't supply the animals, another country will. It makes no sense to listen to bleeding hearts about live exports. They seems to think that if we stop exporting them, then the practice will cease. Our farmers get a very good return from live exports and while the demand is there we should fill it. Strict regulation however is required on the transporters to minimise any cruelty.

Dave

Australia is the largest supply. No way they are going to soucre it elsewhere. In fact it is the Muslim people wanting to open plants here and provide jobs. Isnt it ironic that the Muslim people world wide can see huge oportunitys by re opening abattoirs here but some others cant. Its going to be them who end up putting these live animal exporters out of business.
Farmers will be the winners- As it should be along with our aboriginal people who will excell working under their own judgment.

When we ceased live exports before carcass from Australia "increased".

24 February 2006
Australian Muslims Are Against Animal Cruelty

The President of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Dr. Ameer Ali
today called on the Australian media not to act irresponsible in misinforming the
Australian public about the real reasons for live exports.

Dr. Ameer Ali said that Muslims are primarily concerned to ensure that the animal is slaughtered in accordance with the Islamic Shariah, and that can be done in Australia under the Australian Government supervised Muslim Slaughter Program (AGSMS) and we want the Australian public to know that we do not agree to animal cruelty.

He further said that Muslims in the Middle Eastern countries readily accept
Frozen and chilled lamb and mutton from Australia, once it is Halal certified
under the program. Last year Australian lamb meat exports to the Middle East was up 36% to a record of 14,052 tonnes, and Australian mutton meat export to the Middle East was up 24% in the same period to 36,051 Tonnes (ref. Farmonline News 1 Feb 2006). This represents the equivalent of more than 2 million sheep which were slaughtered in Australia for Middle Eastern Muslim customers.

Dr. Ali said that the Australian Muslims does not support the cruel treatment of animals prior to slaughter, that has been documented in Egypt as the Qur`an dictates that animals should be treated with kindness.

Dr. Ameer Ali, President
Dr. Munir Hussain, Chairman, Halal Committee

On last night's news, Macolm Turnbull stated that the reason for the objections to the Japanese whale kill was to do with "love." Love of the animal.

I doubt if many would call Turnbull a "bleeding heart."

What do I think of live sheep exports?

Disgusting, obscene, callous and avaricious!

Perpetrated only by those with self-interests and who are truly unevolved!

And not a word from the guilty on how this heinous practice could be stopped!

Watch out dickie you might pop something....whats wrong with a sustainable whale hunt?

Ah yes Alzo - do forgive me. I omitted to take into account the considerable expense you must have gone to, to organise the "biggest roo SPORTING shoot" in Australia.

One would need to continue utilising all the "guns, gunpowder, rifles, dogs, knives and spears" you went armed with to hunt down the kangaroo.

What better way than to have some fun at sea by detonating a few whales!

Of course Alzo, the predatory simpletons have no concept of the ecological and moral equilibrium required by the predator against his defenceless prey!

Alzo
I get the feeling your not a born Australian by some of your comments.
I guess it must be hard for some people to adjust to civilisation after living in sub standards qualities and seeing cruelty not only to animals are people as the norm.
Now regarding the whales Alzo the answer to your question is that practise is illegal in Australia. Not to mention most of the rest of the world also oppose it just in case you had not noticed.

It is quite normal for uneducated people to make the comment about live exports that they cant see the difference between slaughtering animals here then overseas.
I do understand you think that and why.
Given the word restriction to repond to you let me just say that here in Australia we do have some type of Animal Welfare codes of practise.
Overseas dont. So its boarder line to send animals off to countries where we know practises are used that are illegal in Australia.
I dont give a rats arse if the farmers get more money or not.
Common decency comes first. Build some abattoirs here. Not all farmers are [poor.
They and all of us have a responsibilty and duty of care towards Gods creatures.

Dickie. Re The Roos dogs guns - Tell me more.
Thats also illegal now.

Hi there Pale

Your assessment of the "charming" Alzo appears most accurate.

You will be able to further learn about this braggart's conquests by accessing General Discussions and click on:

............"Stop the Culling of Roos" by Spanky 17/5/07

"I get the feeling your not a born Australian "
Sometimes I feel like I'm on different planet, particularly when reading OLO.

"Now regarding the whales Alzo the answer to your question is that practise is illegal in Australia"
That wasn't the question....

"Not to mention most of the rest of the world also oppose it just in case you had not noticed."
Japan and Norway don't.

"So its boarder line to send animals off to countries where we know practises are used that are illegal in Australia."
Thats there business don't you think?

"I dont give a rats arse if the farmers get more money or not."
Well I can see that from your previous posts. I'm alright Jack.

"Dickie. Re The Roos dogs guns - Tell me more. Thats also illegal now."
Someone should tell the roos...

Alzo
Yep I guess I would have to agree with you. Your on a different planet to Dickie and myself and millions of other Aussies.
There is no way of telling what makes one person born with compashion and a fair go attitude for all living things and others just plain cruel hearted.
Different paddock- different breeding- different background- different envoiroment all take their tolls I guess.
It puts me in mind of those two blokes trapped down that mine in Tasi
One bloke was a sensitive animal lover who rejoiced life.
The other as a bit like yourself I guess and couldnt wait to get out there and sneak up on some poor innoccent animal and kill it.
Two men stuck in a cage together but worlds apart.
Wouldnt you think an expereince like that would make anybody appreciate the beauty of life itself and all life?
So the fundermental difference in peoples natures is in my mind inna bred.
To kill for the sake of it.
To kill for sport These blokes are usually the ones who wont stand up face to face in a fight. The run like the cowards they are. If odds are even they are gonewith the wind. Might be time for some female leaders of this world I should think.
You bag Dickie because he has some common decency to make up for the lack of humanity you hold in your own heart.
Now ask yourself why?
Is it you resent anybody you feel might have been given a higher
education and set of moral standards?
Do these people make you feel less of a person.
All creatures are beautiful.
It does sound as if you are hunting Roos without being aware of the new codes.

"Is it you resent anybody you feel might have been given a higher
education and set of moral standards?"
Yes you could be right

"Do these people make you feel less of a person."
Yes, yes.... yes *sob*

"All creatures are beautiful."
Especially the tasty ones.

"It does sound as if you are hunting Roos without being aware of the new codes."
There are codes? I only know about the code of the bush. There aren't usually too many rangers around.

The following link is on Roos. It may only be in QLD at the moment however it will become national.
I am just wondering if you know the breeds of Roos that are pretected or you just shoot anything.
Yes we are aware there is a need for more rangers. As a self confessed sicko thanks for putting that into writing.
Either way It really makes little difference to me.
You are of course the other bloke in the cage and kill for the fun of it.
A twisted B in other words.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1490696.htm

Regarding your comment on live animal exports if you cant see the difference click on the link provided.
http://www.rspcaqld.org.au/media/Live_Export_Update_14Feb07.pdf

Now lets not kid ourselves all abattoirs are cruel.
Its a cruel trade. BUT If you cant see the difference between slaughtering here than the above link your not much of a person to be straight with you.

I dont see any point to continue exchanging posts with you to be honest.

I think you think you are upsetting me and you seem to enjoy that.
The bad news for you sport is I have seen far worse than shooting a few roos or sticking dogs on them to tear them apart.
Seen it all dumb dumb and except the fact that there are scum who enjoy killing animals like yourself.
Thats life and I certainly dont let sickos like you effect me.
Bad luck.
Just remember the wheels of justice turn slowly but surley.

I wouldnt be in your karma for quids.
I pity your ignorance and that you miss out on so much in life.

Ah....well said Pale.

No doubt this feeble-minded rodent has scurried off to his cavern to pull the wings off a few bats, before returning with more of his inane dribble.

You, no doubt, have enlightened the rodent, that he is not dealing with "bleeding hearts" but with those who abhor the sadistic acts, perpetrated by the "Alzo" tardbillies.

I too am comforted by the powers of Karma. Perhaps he's already contracted a hydatid tape-worm from his dogs slavering over the slaughter, where the cysts have invaded what's left of his diminishing brain function?

paleif says:
"I dont give a rats arse if the farmers get more money or not."

Was anyone under a different impression?

Rojo
Dont take things out of text please. You are very well aware our organisation is the only one bringing in buyers direct from overseas to meet with farmers in order to bump out the middle man.
Clearly this is how we are able to do just that.
Off farmers a better price.
After saying that farmers also have a duty of care to the animals they breed.
Not all farmers are poor only the honest good old fashioned ones that have been used by the corp lot.
They are plenty who could well afford to form co ops and reopen plants.
They dont because they want an easy buck at the price of suffering animals.
It is this type of corp farmer I am refering to not giving a rats arse about.
As you very well know.
Do you ever actually do anything other than get on here other than bagging good people. Our team work tirelsely trying to get better prices for farmers.
Real Farmers not the sort hes refering to. You seem to have a problem with people who have common decency towards animals and a fair go for farmers.

Paleif,
It seems yourself,dickie and myself have a lot in common when it comes to defensless animals, but try as we might, the alzo's and the rojos of this world will unfortunately not go away, this is how they understand the workings of the world, they solidly believe that animals are animals, with no feelings, but what disturbs me is the fact of them being able to understand the term "pecking order" which is as we all know, is relevant to animals. Maybe our alzo's and rojo's are feeling threatened by the way people like you, me and dickie are supporting the rights of animals?
Just a small thought, thats all.
Spanky

Spanky

Humans who gloat over the practice of animal slaughter are generally on the bottom rung of the human pecking order.

I have known some humans who, in their youth, "went bush" to slaughter a few roos and goats. They tell me it pains them greatly when they are reminded of their cruel and inhumane actions of the past.

Unfortunately, those who never elevate from the bottom rung of society, due to a stunted intellect, (affluence is not relevant), prevents them from realising that shooting defenceless animals as a sport or a trade, is a practice they should never brag about.

After all, even a simpleton can kill an animal which has no-where to run!

Spanky

Humans who gloat over the practice of animal slaughter are generally on the bottom rung of the human pecking order.

I have known some humans who, in their youth, "went bush" to slaughter a few roos and goats. They tell me it pains them greatly when they are reminded of their cruel and inhumane actions of the past.

Unfortunately, those who never elevate from the bottom rung of society, due to poor intellect (affluence is not relevant), prevents them from realising that shooting defenceless animals as a sport or a trade, is a practice they should never brag about.

After all, even a simpleton can kill an animal which has no-where to run!

paleif,

It is very hard to take "I dont give a rats arse if the farmers get more money or not." in any other context than what is written. If you don't "really" mean it don't say it.
You say, correctly, that not all farmers are poor. That doesn't make abbatoirs any more financially appealing though. If there is so much money to be made why aren't the extraordinarilly rich people opening up meatworks left right and centre, instead of investing in media and gambling?

You are well aware I support your vision for Australian meatworks, but am opposed to banning live exports. let competition for the animals phase out live exports when more processors develop here. I do not want the farmers to have to subsidise the processing industry through low animal prices.
If animal rights groups wish to pay farmers NOT to raise animals for live export, or for that matter at all, thats ok by me too.

paleif, I only "bag" you when it is required and you will note that I often try and help you. Think of the above quote as a reminder to be careful of what you say however you mean it.

Rojo
The answer to your question is- there are.- Meaning there are plenty making heaps out of meat plants and providing thousands of jobs to keep employment prodived towards a healthy economy.
Just not here- thats all.

Why do you think they take them alive to these other countries . Take it from me Rojo its NOT religon or lack of refrigraition.

James was never interested in his fathers meat trade. Perhaps that is to his credit.
Unlike many I dont see his Dad as An Aussie Hero Rojo in regards to providing jobs at meat plants.
When you take on a mob of blokes in a small country town its important you understand many of those blokes take out bank loans and morgages on homes for their family.
To give blokes work for a few years to ensure supply and contacts in regional areas then shut the plants down re diverting stock to live exports has a serious effect on many familys.

Sure you can write it off as a tax loss and pick up heaps more by playing on the trade market but it doesnt seem right some how.

Its just not right to do that to animals no matter how much more these big players make.
Its not the little farmer who has set up this system and in fact the little farmer is the real victim.

When I said I dont give a rats arse if they make more money or not I was refering to the corp pretend farmers.

Not the real farmers.

Please dont tell me there`s no money in meat. Look at Packer Murdock and many other high flyers.

Better still our true blue small farmers ought to start to think- What type of a hole have they led us into. Rojo yes you have tried to help and made some good points. Your right I ought not have said that. I do care about farmers - just hate the other pretend ones.
Love your comments on Animal groups paying farmers not to send them alive.
As if!. Fund raisers mostly.

spanky,
yes it was a small thought and thats ok. I have to say it's a bit presumptive on your part to assess my feelings toward animals and you are well of the mark. I just don't ascribe to attributing human traits like conscience, ambition, thinking(beyond "I need a drink") and self awareness to animals bred for food.
Pain and "fear" certainly, but anger,hate,envy or love? It is most important to eliminate as much pain as is possible and minimise "fear" . I say "fear" because I don't think animals experience fear in the human sense ie. other than the panic of the moment. They don't have the knowledge to process several steps ahead(knowing that the smell of blood means death) or even that they would be afraid of dying, not to be confused with the will to live. It isn't clear whether they "fear" the final ramp in the abattoir more than the sheepdog during muster. It's not likely the abattoir experience will cause post-stress traumatisation.

The only "threat" posed by animal rights groups is through misinformation and propaganda. Have a logical and factual argument, rather than one based simply on emotion, and you won't have any problems from me.

Rojo
You mean you are so shallow you dont know Animals feel fear, pain , love scared safe content stressed just like us.
I said it before and i say it again.
i can only pity somebody who has missed out on the other half of life.
Your certainly totally ignorant of fact.
Yes they feel free love. Yes they hate people who are cruel to them.
A dog bird horse cow etc will ALWAYS remember those people. Long after you have forgotton.
They remember for years.