o sung wu,

The Left of some years ago, the traditional Left if you want, would not find much(anything?) in common with the so-called Left today and they would be shocked by the intrusive laws than have been mooted and passed as 'left' legislation, that is true.

I am not 'Right' or 'Conservative' because like so many people (you too I would warrant) I am heartily sick of the,

"Your-rights-end-where-my-feelings-and-sense-of-entitlement-begin"

attitude of present day 'leftists'.

The modern 'leftists' are a constant threat to free speech and liberty. They suck big time and 'traditional' lefties would say the same. Of course you could say that there are no real lefties around, only the political 'Progressives' with their Cultural Marxism and no traditional leftie (nor I) might disagree with that.

Hi there FOXY...

It's always a pleasure to speak/debate/reason with you. Otherwise, why would we continue following Graham's exceptional Forum, and engage in the various debates as they emerge from the minds and thoughts of the many excellent contributors who favour both OLO and the Forum ? As always, please take care FOXY !

Good evening to you ONTHEBEACH...

I do agree with you, the 'left' of today are quite different to those of earlier times, more like the traditional Labour 'Left' of years gone by. I also agree there appears to be a real sense of entitlement originating from the 'modern' Left if you will. No doubt they'd deny it, nevertheless there's evidence that it does exist.

Further, in the last twenty five, thirty five years, the 'Left' have become far more abusive, derogatory and disrespectful in the way they continual challenge those of the LNP persuasion, aka the 'Right' ? This in turn has caused we of the 'Right' to engage in similar insulting, rude and disrespectful retorts towards them.

Consequently, neither side emerges with any sense of claiming the moral high ground ! As both sides are just as bad, and as culpable as the other ! Which is a pretty sad state of affairs really ?

I just don't get it ! We're all Australians, we all have our own particular needs, our goals and our individual feelings, and visions for our own futures. Of course we have our families too, who have their needs also. And we all have debts, that need to be regularly serviced. Most of us are either employed or retired. And regrettably some of us are unemployed, wanting and needing a regular job. There are just a few, who don't wish to work but for reasons of their own, prefer to accept regular benefits from the government.

More importantly though, we're still all Australians ! We all bleed when we're cut, whether we're from the 'Left' or from the 'Right' in our political beliefs ! Yet we continue to rip each other asunder...? When on earth will it all cease ?

Dear O Sung Wu,

It's also a pleasure to discuss issues with you.
And I fully agree with your last post. Many people
see the Left and Right as anachronistic paradigms
that divide people leaving them open to being
manipulated by the two party system. This must
change and there is no doubt that the old paradigms
that have restricted the emancipation of humanity need
to be shattered. Divisions in our society of ethnicity,
gender, sexual orientation, class and age all need to be
questioned. Perhaps that's why we currently see people
like Clive Palmer and his party attracting support.

In the modern indusrialised countries much has changed only
very recently in terms of governance. Today the bureaucratic
class (at its highest levels) is likely to be drawn from
economists and in particular those with a tunnel vision of
their discipline. There are economists and economists!

Of course, bureaucratic personnel are not the bulk of a
country's citizens and we need only to be wary of such an
elite if they control the information citizens need in
putting pressure on their elected representatives.

In a democracy the citizen is supposed to be in charge, not
the bureaucrat. How much (and what kind) of information
(and education) should the citizen have if he or she is to have
an effective vote in a democracy? Bureaucrats, given their
job description as public servants, you would think exist to
serve the public.

The reality is that the citizen has had to delegate to elected
members of a parliament the task of directing and
overseeing the bureaucrats. The citizen has no direct control and
his or her influence is remote and irregular - occuring only
when the people's representatives are chosen in elections.

At present people are certainly expressing their frustrations
with the way things are. As John Howard made quite clear
at his recent appearance at the National Press Club -
people will not accept things that they consider to be
unfair. And he was spot on with that.

That is a lot of words to say that the rigid, ideologically-driven Left 'Progressives' aka the international socialists and radical feminists for example should not accept any accountability for the unintended (we hope unintended) negative consequences of their re-jigging of social policy, that apparent under the previous Labor/Greens government.

Returning to the OP, I object most strongly to any suggestion that there should be more regulation of vehicles and licences simply because you, Foxy, cannot handle your massive GMH limousine in a private shopping centre carpark and you don't think you should wait your turn.

That is the matter being discussed, the typical leftist (but far from traditional left) knee-jerk reaction of more laws and Big Sister State continually being called upon to intervene more and more to control the private affairs of citizens. The Labor/Gillard push actually boasted of passing 2,000 new pieces of legislation to control us. THat is the problem with leftist 'Progressives', they always know what is best for others, but sauce for the goose is never sauce for the gander.

I say again, I am heartily sick of the,

"Your-rights-end-where-my-feelings-and-sense-of-entitlement-begin"

attitude of present day 'leftists'.

If you can't handle your large limo in a shopping centre carpark, it is simple, don't take it there. Laws and State intervention should be the very last resort in a democracy and based on evidence, not your emotional reaction to having to wait your turn..

While on the subject of barges, GMH Statesman limos at least, something to lighten the mood,

Mark Antony is out of town. When he gets back, he and Cleopatra go out on the Nile in her royal barge. He says, "What did you do while I was gone, Cleo?" She says, "I studied metaphysics with a guru." "What did you learn?" "He convinced me that if I want to, I can walk on water." "Show me." She climbs up on the railing and says, "Here I go." A minute later, she yells, "Look, Tony! I'm doing it!" He walks over to the railing." After a minute, he says, "Cleo, you're in d'Nile." (denial)

If our former Prime Minister Julia Gillard would
have been able to walk on water - the headlines
from the NewsCorp media would have read -

"Prime Minister Can't Swim!"