Hi All

When I talk with relatives, friends and acquaintances they invariably complain about the performance of governments of both political persuasion, at both the state and federal level.

When I read the newspaper I get the distinct impression, from articles and “letters to the editor”, that the wider community is not happy with the performance of government.

When I visit various internet Forums (including some not focussed on politics and current affairs) my perception that there is a fairly broad base of dissatisfaction with the performance of our governments is further reinforced.

Now I could be quite wrong of course and it could just be the same fifty people doing all the stirring under different names. That however seems unlikely when one peruses election results over the past twenty years or so.

So assuming a broad base of dissatisfaction and the fact that at last count there were about 15 million enrolled voters in Australia it seems to me that there are probably a lot of unhappy customers out there.

In a nutshell, I happen to agree. I don’t think our governments are serving us as well as they could or should or as was intended when our system of government was introduced in 1901 and I wouldn’t mind spending a bit of my spare time making a voluntary contribution to endeavours focussed at trying to improve things.

So to that end can anyone help me by suggesting an appropriate organisation that is actively pursuing improvement to our system of government and is not aligned with any of the political parties or anyone else who has an unhealthy vested interest.

Oh and just to clarify, I’m looking for something that’s “mainstream”. I’m just an ordinary bloke and happy to admit that I’m not into alternative “medications” or “fringe” philosophies, my obviously diminished mental capacity prohibits me from navigating or understanding them.

I’ve been looking for ages and can’t locate a thing which amazes me given the apparent level of dissatisfaction out there.

Thanks
Kevin

Dear Kevin,

The problem with government begins and ends with the fact that it is a non-voluntary body.

Now I am not denying the case for this non-voluntary body: criminals will not volunteer to be policed, nor invaders from overseas volunteer to be stopped - but there it should stop. The only legitimate role of an involuntary body (such as government) is defence - both internal and external.

All the other functions of government (including economics, roads, health, education, culture, etc. etc.) should be carried by different body(s) - that is/are voluntary, rather than that same compulsory body that is unfortunately necessary for our protection.

The current government can do whatever it likes, disregarding you and me because no matter how bad it is, people cannot QUIT - but people can quit non-voluntary body(s), which would require such bodies to lift up their game if they want to retain their members.

It's because we live in a democratic aristocracy, rather than a plain democracy...we elect representatives of big business, not representatives of the people. Money rules. And all money is working towards bigger businesses, monopolies, control of global resources which includes people...we are a labour resource, a market, a cost, and ultimately, cannon fodder. Money has no conscience.

What political party of such a small population as Australia is going change this global agenda? It's a noble, but futile, notion. We don't even own much of our country, and are about to sell off more. Or to put it another way, this snowball is so big, you don't want to be standing in front of it with nothing but a "stop" sign. :)

Cheers.

HI/BIG\FELLA*..

you/wrote/quote..<<..So to that end>>

just to BE clear..ideally/there isnt any 'end'
that said//govt itself alonE/CAN..make a g00d end

in toto..[it alone]..holds all the reigns/of power]../but those hoLDING THE REIGNS..make sure no one yanks them/from their coLD DEAD HANDS..and yet the PUPPETS/could together disembowel/..the maSter..[of these realms]..[the/INFINITE MONEY CREATOR]..[AFFECTIONATELY A DEVIL..in MIND/..SATAn MADE FLESHif you will]..

Our system would be much improved/if golt alone controlled the issue of paper money[anD THE QUEEN RULED OVER HER OWN COIN

THATS ALL WE NED [AN HONEST STORE OF VALUE]
and govt paying..its own way...borrowing infinite 'MONEY'..FROM THE MONEY CHANGERS.AT INTREST..will fail hugely..TO MAny living suffer to feed the eNDLESS GREED OF DEAD CORPORATIONS.who dont pay tax/but only exist by GOVT LICENSE/THERE MUST BE NO LTD/or incs..that govt is enslaved under

govt must be there for the living
mot the DEAD..GOVT MAY ONLY DEAL IN COIN/BECAUSE IT SPENDS INTO BEING ITS OWN PAPER/BONDS/PAYABLE IN COIN

the big thing you coud do KEV
IS END THE DEBASEMENT/OG THE QUEENS COIN/ALL THIS INFLATION OF PAPER/HAS FORCED DEBASEMENT..OF THE COMMON WEALTH EMBODIED[coin]

dont let the coin age end with the stealing the mint too
the 'ROYAL MINT '..BTANDNAME ALONE=priceless.

<<>.can anyone help me by suggesting an appropriate organisation>>

0lo..open govt.
here..put your new-lAW/HERE..BEFORE THE PEOPLE/LET US PRE-JUDGE..IT/here\nOW

<<..I’m looking for something that’s “mainstream”.>>

IF YOUR THE REAL/BIG\KEV]..PUT SOME CASH INTO/making mainstrea,/more people focused/not buSINESS ]ADVERTISER]..ADVOCATE

<<..obviously diminished mental capacity prohibits me from navigating or understanding them.>>

GOVT SHOULD not borrow money at intrest from anYONE
THE COIN RULES OVER OUR HERITAGE..LIFE ENDS WHEN THE COIN-ASGE ENDS.

apologies for the poor formatting/spelling..buT CURSER IS HYPER SENSITIVE AND OFTEN STUFF I WRITE SHIFTS OUT OF PHOSE/sequence etc/plus i use varIABLE TERMS..[i wouLD HATE TO BE MISTAKEN AS MISLEADING/OR LEADING]

LIke alex jones..I JUST NEED TO KNOW
like at todays show he reveals how THE 'WAR ON DRug'/users
has made so much money/thaT ITS THE BIGGEST ECONOMY..EVER

And via unlimited money has bought off govt
beginning with dumbing down education/LAW..then debasing THE MONEY SYSTEM[TAKING THE FEDERAL reserves treasuries of states councils pensions...[living as if gods tax free]..while all burden alone..'trickles down'..

MANY/SAY IT BETTER THAn i
for i lack the abiity to communicate..UNLIKE YOU

http://rss.infowars.com/20140511_Sun_Alex.mp3

the other adviser.i knOW..[BOTH HAVE MONEY ISSUES
SOME SERIOUS money [to allow the full message be told[advert/fREE]..WIL WELL AND TRUEy advance the case for liberty

or a halF HOUR WITH THE QUEEN[SEE ALL COMMONWEALTH ARMED Forces
are sworn to serve and protect HRH/HER HEIRS and suck[ie us]//SHE NEEDS BUT SAY ALL GOVT DEBT OWED TO THE DEAD=IS ODIOUS DEBT..THEN ORDER the audit of the gaqme..to see who has been cheating

her decreed replacement/for the theft/of HER GOLD SILVER FROM HER COIN/BY THE CRime of debasement=treason..and that BEGOTTEN BY UNLAWFU MEANS CANNOT Gainsay a clear title[all PUBLIC ASSETS SOLD ARE HEREBY RESUMED

NOTHOING NEED CHANGE/WE JUST DOING AN AUDIT.MUSTER..CAUSE THats how its dONE IN THE COLONIES...UNDER THE RUE of gg/running every sCHOOL/ALL PUBLIC SERVICE AUDIT AND Financing[GOVT watchdoging..NOT TAX DODGING]..]

we need get together..UNDER ONE CONSTISTANT RUE OF LAW
UNDER ONE OFFICIAL COIN/THERE TO SERVE WHERE THE QUEEN CANNOT OTHER WISE SERVE.

I Wish i could write like mike
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

but we each have our own burdens tallents and skills
some just know to//wrITE THE RIGHT QUESTION//

pthers sek to know it all
fIX IT NOW..OR DIE TRYING

2BCTD

IM SAYING WE GOT TWO POPES
ITS TIME USA..[all great states/were ruled by two headS

SAY LIkE WE LEARNed in 12 years of school/
now takes 20 years because so much more to learn/relearn..so many lies hidden/when we are enTITLED TO KNOW ALL WE WISH TO KNOW

AS LONG AS WE HURT NO ONE..the knowing obliges us
BUT WE KNOW THE COIN.IS MANDATED BY THE QUALITY of its metallurgical purity/standard'..I URGE THOSE OF THE QUEEN TO MAKE CLEAR DEBASEMENT HAS LOST US LL 'face'..[when face=devalues its real worth]

ike a 50 cent rOUND COIN=SILVER
ITS PRICE=50 CENTS..ITS WHATEVER THE SILVER PRICE IS
LAST TIME I LOOKED IT WAS 7 BUCKS/value/BUT AL COIN SHOUD BE THAT SAME VALUE

BUT Inflation/deflated..BEYOND WHERE A ONE PENNY COIN=1 CENT=28 CENTS IN COPPEr[as penny weight of copper]..but as one cent..its likely worth more haN 5 CENTS..[IN COPPER]..BUT YANKI COINS ARE ETAL/COPPER PLATED.

point is.simply restore the RERAL VALUES/BACK INTO COIN
AND SUDDENLY WE EACH GOT SPENDING MONEY[AND IT COST NUTHINGHrh simply says..add two seros to all my coin face VALIUE

LET ONE CENT..now..equal $1
2ceNTS=2$../5cent=5$..10-10$..A BAILOUT FROM THE BOTTum up
before hrh finds out and gets angry/i beEN TRYING TO TEll her since 1996..one day she must act..instantly/and all ARNED FORCES JUDGES GOVTS SWORN TO SERVE HER MUST OBEY.

PASS IT ON TO HRH
7 TH DEGREE royaist SEPPERATIONINST

ITS FUNNy/add tarply to the list
HE IS ADVERT FREE..explains much about the brief parT HISTRY HAS PLAYED..IN TODATS DRAMAS.

THIS IS GOLD

http://tarpley.net/audio/20140507-WGT_on_Rense.mp3

Big Kev – I agree there is a lot of noise out there and I to hear it from the same sources as yourself.

Unfortunately as a population we all have our phobias, apathy and allegiances that come into play when there is a requirement for change.

Until we as a country can not only accept that we are all different but the majority also fundamentally have the good of the country at heart change will not happen. We must also accept that good comes in many forms and may not be 100% aligned with our personal philosophy.
Our diversity must be represented in our parliament, which is not the case and has never been the case because of our preferential voting system. This system currently allows the Coalition that received 45.55% of the vote, control 60% (90 seats) in the House of Representatives.

The only system that is representative is a proportional system. You may not like what you get but at least we will get those for whom we vote.

That my two bob’s worth Big Kev, I have said it before and will continue to say it because I believe we should be represented by those we choose. If you are interested the link below to a previous discussion gets into the mechanics.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5047#13544

its easy money..when..*compulsion..of citizenry..into comerce..
[GOVT CONTROLES/regulates commerce/so commerce set out..to take oVER GOVT..ITS EASY money..once ya selL out..TO BIG MONEY/SIN TAXES

or/TAKE a seat..at the govt cash-trough
where govt borrows..to gift it away..[like aLL THIS
govt/private/PARTNERSHIP/ROAD BUIDing/means THE PEOPLE DONT OWN IT/..AND MUST REPAY THE CAPITALIST IN*PUTS VIA FEES TOLLS AND PRIVATE REVENUES /UPON Privatized roads..PAyed/for..via a nice new/fuel... tax/..NO ONE MENTIONED..[but/was\PLANNED

yet the mint..mOST HOLDS..MY ANGER..ITS A FINAL TREASON
the gold silvER.WAS STOLEN FROM THE MINT/bUying its books wilL make so much ..'return'..it will send the queen broke..[and we her common weALTH]..YET FURTHER DEBASED

policy advantage..over others
IS BUYING HIM..WHO KNOWS WHere the receipts/CRIME JOINER\JOINS]

corpe=rate voices heard...minted coin/was the word/mint sold off
indivi-dual voices ignored.

im against party voting [in a two party system]..
its obvious we vote..for a pig trying to become pork..via the govt trough..[gOVT LARGESS/CONTRACT=THE WAY TO RICHES]

employ/the minD-DISADVANTAGED/WHO DONT THINK TOO MUCH/LIKE THe days of rome/NATZIES AND BOLCHOVICS..socialists against big money

you MUST READ THIS

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/enron-2-0-wall-street-wants-manipulate-state-energy-markets-just-like-manipulates-every-market.html

THE PARTY LOYALIst/thinks nothing/feels less
who...self amuses[with a self medicant][usually vodka/PRESCRIBED/MEDS]
works when told..and votes when told..[then dies quickly..once ya work life is over[ya bunch of serfs[peons]

party loyalty
is treason to state
treason to state hurts voters
thats where the state..has failed its reason for creation

states arnt there[to come-up with
ever more reason to tax us/get compulsory levies from us
and serve.those like clive palmer..to become bloated jokers

assisted by govt malfeasance..building
temp/*in-fastructure...into the desert's

free/pipelines/rail/power
dams...pools of pollution/bin plastic liners]
poluted airs waters and soils..[plus by then..tammiflue/or jets.or noisy sub..then build big empty..harbours...great tracts of the reef..made into shipping clearways..TO SHOVEL CHEAP ENERGY POUTANT shutting/base power down/BUY/BACK.

oh and mining deep sea vents
pumping the mining waste polutions..back under the water line

that some other mug..will contract to remove one day
making the final cash_crop..thanks to govt largess..its tiime those GETTING THEIR RICHES PAID THE RENT[if their not making exTRA MONEY THEN THEIR ASSET stripping fOR NAUGHT]...CONTInues..in ukrane/afrika/iran/..etc etc [ITS GLOBAL/BUT ONE QUARTER OF US =Common wealth/make treaty WITH BRIKS/SOON

Below is a link that succinctly describes "Enron Venture Capitalism", amongst other forms. It's humorous, but sadly accurate. http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_oct2002/Two_Cow_Capitalism.htm

Enjoy!

I guess what you are looking for is some sort of totally honest Political Party that would look after the interest of the Common Man.

Good luck with that.

The problem is governments are trying to do too much. Rather than supply a few laws, & defense, governments got into handouts in a big way. Now only a crash will fix the rot.

Once governments started trying to look after the incompetents, it was bound to fail eventually.

When this government was established, if there was no work, you rolled up your swag, & walked to where there was some.

Families looked after their disabled, injured or incompetents.

If you didn't earn enough to build or rent a house, you lived under a tree.

If you wanted a triple bypass you earned the money to pay for it.

Once government undertook to give every bludger everything others earned, it's destruction was inevitable.

You can't give every no hoper a nice house, food, a car, grog, & medical treatment fit for a millionaire, without going broke.

You can't give every dill a university education, & a job in the bureaucracy, without going broke.

You can't keep every old fart alive as long as possible, with the best of everything, without an ultimate collapse. [From an old fart]

We are going to have to learn to be happy with a lot less handouts, or end up with none. Those who expect more than a tent, somewhere to pitch it, & enough to eat, are going to have to earn it for themselves, or watch everything fall down around their ears. It is only a matter of time.

Dear Kev,

People are becoming more and more vocal in their
dissatisfaction with our current political system.
Perhaps because in the past voters had a better
idea of what each of our major parties stood for.
They had specific programs, which were contained in
policy documents issued before elections, and their
differences over policy were usually clear cut and
significant. Voters knew (more or less) where they
stood.

However in recent years things changed - and apparently
transparency, accountability, and honesty, seems to have
gone by the wayside. Scandals, corruption, lies, came
to the fore - and trust has been lost.

It's a sad day for our political system - and a sad day
for the country. The current state of affairs has many
voters wary - and they are beginning to vent their feelings.
The view is apparently being formed that our political
process sees power as being held by, and exercised
primarily in the interest of, a privileged few.

I certainly don't have the answer to our current problem.
Except to make our feelings known to our MPs and the Media.
However, sadly, I think that an awful lot of damage can be done
in the next couple of years that will cause this country
and its people a great deal of grief.

I don't think the political System itself is bad. It the present two Political Parties & the self-interested people they attract (Lawyers & Accountants) that is at the crux of the problem.

The corruption is endemic to both of these Political Parties. They both need to go.

The corruption is endemic to both of these Political Parties. They both need to go.
Jayb,
reading OLO everyday I am more convinced now more then ever that Australians are a greater problem, than the Government.
Greed & selfishness are now so entrenched here that those who contribute to the wealth of this nation are simply giving up. Why put in a effort when only the morons get rewarded ?

Hasbeen

your post is brilliant and spot on but to many turkeys have been brainwashed into thinking that Governments need to be social engineers, fix every mess people make and provide for every bludger who does not want to pay for things themselves. Look at the absolute wastage on the gw scam that even those knowing it was crp still played along with.

Hasbeen – you old fart (your words). Your post includes good points but you choose to ignore a large part of the story. You do not address those who have plenty who have not earned it. You do not address those who have earned much and have not been rewarded for it. What about the Vet’s that have served and suffered as a consequence of their service. What about those that are disabled by industry and religion. I could go on and on you old fart, but I reckon it would be trying to fill a bucket with holes in it.

Runner – Government is supposed to be the representation of the collective “US”. Your blue team is not and the previous red team wasn’t either. Hasbeen’s post was far from brilliant and only hit a couple of spots, it just suited your rhetoric.

True to form neither of the above offered any solution to “improve our government system”.

To Jayb and Individual I say hear, hear

There is NO solution and there is NO final answer regarding good government. The "fact" always remains one person's good wine is another person's poison.

For the past 100,000 or so years that homo sapiens has existed, people have ALWAYS squabbled and disagreed. No one, perfect way of government or rule of any type, acceptable to all, has ever existed. It never will. Why? Because homo sapiens is no different whatsoever to the animal kingdom. We "think" we are ever so intellectually superior, yet we fight, war, squabble and disagree just like the animal kingdom. Why? Because biologically we are just that ... animals (mammals to be precise).

Conclusion: Homo sapiens is biologically programmed (survival instinct), at a most primitive level, to fight and squabble. There is NOTHING that mankind can currently do to change that biology.

Conclusion regarding government/politics: There will ALWAYS be 2 or more sides to EVERYTHING that's proposed ... often dozens and even hundreds of sides. One person's great solution is ALWAYS another person's disaster. ALL systems of government are destined to change over time via squabbling, fighting, enforcement, wars, invasions, coups, democracy, non democracy, dictatorships etc etc etc.

Government and rule systems have ALWAYS been in flux for the past 100,000 years, remain in flux and will ALWAYS be in flux. Homo sapiens is just way too primitive, with a very constrained intellectual biology, for things to ever be acceptable to all people .... at any stage in the present or future.

Producer there will always be the lucky & the unlucky. If the bomb lands on your house, unlucky. If it lands on the one next door, lucky, unless you were visiting at the time.

My kids are lucky, I've been careful, bought wisely & have a bit to leave them. The kids of the old fart renting across the road are unlucky. He always earned much more than me, but spent every penny. Now he can't afford the rent on the nice house he lives in, or to repair his expensive car. Tough luck kids.

Many other old farts had nice retirement packages, but got greedy, & invested in high reward rip-offs, & now have nothing. Silly people, that is not bad luck, it's bad management.

I don't know about those poor vets. That $800 I paid for a couple of hours treatment of my dog & a dose of ant tick serum was pretty rewarding to the vet I thought, as was the $400 to put down the one with a snake bite.

Those disabled through a work injury are usually reasonably well compensated, & overly so by those claiming stress leave. Those disabled by their leisure activities don't deserve taxpayer compensation. If I had crashed my Brabham at 170+ MPH down Conrod straight, would I then have been entitled to expect the public to keep me for the rest of my life. I for one don't think so, so had private insurance. Of course if I'd crashed at 170 miles per hour, they may not have had to support me for very long.

Do go on any time. This old fart is good at shooting holes in thought bubbles, particularly when they want to spend other peoples money by force, & I enjoy a good jouste.

Hasbeen you may think you are good at shooting holes in thought bubbles, the test is do others share your narcissistic opinion.

Perhaps based on the concept of luck we should dispense with all forms of government. We could replace it with hasbeen’s is theory "survival of the luckiest and stuff everybody else". I suppose it is okay for Arthur, Eddie, Nathan and the other nights of the half round trough to do what they do, providing they don't get caught. They should only be penalised if there are luck runs out?

If you as an individual have worked hard and have been frugal, you and those like you deserve to reap what you sow. However if you were unlucky enough to lose it all as a consequence of poor law, governance or dodgy business you would be okay with this?

I however believe that all who participate in a meaningful way are entitled to a fair share irrespective of luck. Those who “make” deserve more than those who “take”. Collectively we should not “take” more than we collectively “make”.

I believe (to borrow a phrase) that there should be no taxation without representation. There is a significant percentage of our population that is not represented by government. A proportional system would rectify this “improve our government system".

A proportional system is nothing but a way for the smarties, with no chance of ever gaining a majority, to sport the system, & gain the "balance of power" which the majority did not give them.

You only have to look at the catastrophe that is Tasmania to see what such a system gives. A glance at the Gillard fiasco reinforces that result.

No system of Government will work unless we work on changing the general mentality of the electorate.
Import intelligent teachers to educate our young, then have the adolescents participate in two years of national service & within a couple of years improvement will be very obvious.
Get our Police trained in Indonesia & make our judiciary responsible for their rulings.
A better society in no time at all & the Government can focus on doing what it is supposed to be doing. Any opposition should refrain from criticising until 6 months before an election.

Dear Producer,

<<I believe (to borrow a phrase) that there should be no taxation without representation.>>

I strongly agree regarding proportional representation, but even that's a poor-man's choice: had government been involved only in what is morally legitimate for it to be involved with, then I wouldn't consider it any big deal who happens to be at the helm carrying out its duties.

It's not really about representation - there should be no taxation without consent!

Perhaps you quote the phrase because in some situations indeed, wishing to be represented may indicate such consent, but this does not apply to the current situation in Australia where government interferes with our lives regardless, thus our only reason to be represented may be to defend ourselves against its tyranny rather than a genuine desire to be involved in a common project.

If we freely chose to use the money which the government prints, then this too should indicate our consent to be taxed on it. I see no problem with printing money that has strings attached - don't like to be taxed, then don't use this money!

However, as the current law stands, it is illegal to use other forms of currency in many areas of life, or alternately, such usage still incurs tax in Australian dollars (that arbitrarily includes the bartering of professional services as opposed to non-professional ones).

Until this law is fixed so people can choose for themselves whether they want to have anything to do with the money that governments print, using money does not indicate consent to be taxed on it, hence as it stands, taxation is currently immoral.

(note however, that use of foreign currencies could still indicate consent to be taxed - subject to mutual agreements between the governments which issued those currencies)

Hasbeen you old fart, I’m waiting for you shoot holes in the majority of my last post. Perhaps you aren’t the jouster you claim?

Individual I agree most (not all) of your philosophy although the solutions are very narrow and draconian. Changing the system of choosing a government to a proportional one that is representative if nothing else, you must admit is democratic and fair.

Yuyutsu proportional representation is not a poor man’s choice. The poor man’s vote has the same value as the rich man. One vote has the value of one.

Proportionality is not a panacea for all the ills of governance. It is however, fair and for better or worse represents as close as possible the wishes of the voters.

I believe it would “improve our government system”.

Dear Producer,

<<Yuyutsu proportional representation is not a poor man’s choice. The poor man’s vote has the same value as the rich man. One vote has the value of one.>>

I didn't mean "poor" in the literal sense, i.e. someone who has no money. I just used it as an idiom, to mean "second-best choice", the first choice being that governments do not operate beyond their moral boundaries.

<<Proportionality is not a panacea for all the ills of governance. It is however, fair and for better or worse represents as close as possible the wishes of the voters.>>

Of course, but had the government been limiting its operations to within its moral boundaries, as it should, then I would no longer have any strong wishes about how it does what it does - in that case I would leave that to those who are more professionals in their area of expertise.

Good evening to you HASBEEN...

As usual you speak a lot of common sense, though I'd very much like to place it on record, that I would most definitely avoid accompanying you at 170+ mph down Conrod straight, even at 80 mph ! Speed should be limited to aeroplanes taking off exclusively, not motor cars ! The latter are simply a mode of leisurely conveyance ? Or are you going to verbally 'beat-up' this poor old man for harbouring a diametrically opposed view to yours concerning the true purpose of a motor car ?

Concerning Veterinarians, we've just paid a fraction under $5000 for a hip replacement for our pure bred Kelpie, who was suffering rather awful pain because of her shocking L hip. I must confess, we'd pay double that for her...sure we're manifestly stupid squandering our modest funds on a mere dog, even wasteful, but she's a much loved and valued member of our family, without a doubt.

Apropos 'Improving our system of government', though I 'rant on' about individual instances of corruption, within our political arena - I believe the system of government is pretty good, compared to other developed countries in the western world ? Particularly their electoral processes and the convoluted structure of government of the United States ? Which I spoke about at length, in another topic recently. We don't do too badly with our current system of govt. here.

Where it is important, is the personal QUALITIES of our politicians !Get good, honest and ethical politicians, any system will work, I believe.

Good evening to you HASBEEN...

As usual you speak a lot of nonsense............

Hi NHOJ...

How very facetious and glib of you NHOJ ?

I couldn't find much to shoot at Producer, it was full of holes already. About the only one left is the no taxation without representation. I agree as far as it goes, but it doesn't go far enough.

You should have included no representation without taxation. Those who hold their hand out for a living & thus pay no taxation should not have any right to vote. If you want to chose the government pay your way & support the nation. Voting for a living is not acceptable.

While we're at it, what have you done for your country Producer? Served in the defense force have you? Or perhaps donated your home to the poor? Tell us so we can cheer.

I reckon you are just like all the lefties, you want to do good for the bludgers, but you want to do it with everyone elses money.

Yuyutsu if you don't like our laws & taxation, you are quite welcome to find somewhere more to your liking. Hell I'll even help load your luggage.

HI OH SUNG WU...

Ahhh, the truth hurts I see. Cool.

o sung wu you would have loved it. Much better than crawling through the jungle waiting for someone to shoot at you. Cars should be fun, or their not worth having. However if your fun is leisurely, that's fine too. I'm still waiting for you to come for a run through the border ranges with me in my old classic sports car. I've still got Foxy in my sights too.

We didn't have any two seat formula 1s in Oz, so it would have been a bit hard to take you. It is hard to believe I did have a mechanic, an amateur in fact, who wanted to be strapped down on the bonnet of that Brabham, so he could watch the front suspension under brakes. We were having trouble with a bad vibration under brakes, & he wanted see it up close. He is dead now, of course, but it was actually age & the effects of serving in PNG in 43 that got him, & not racing.

Today we would just aim a camera at it, & it would be sorted. So much of the fun has gone out of things today.

Actually perhaps we should build a 2 seat F1 car. WE could make it mandatory that all politicians had to do 10 laps of Bathurst with me, before they could take their seat. That should deter the milksops.

Actually it should be mandatory that all representatives spend a year in a war zone or on a peacekeeping tour, with our troops, before taking up their seats. That way we would know they had some experience of the real world. Should get rid of most of the shonks too. They would never do anything like that.

You should be in bed Nhoj, it's much too late for you to be up.

You have you done your homework I hope.

You should be in bed Hasbeen. It's much too late for you to be up.

You have you done your homework I hope.

Dear Hasbeen,

<<Yuyutsu if you don't like our laws & taxation, you are quite welcome to find somewhere more to your liking.>>

In the big picture, Australian laws are usually better than in other places, but I don't know even one Australian who likes them all. From some of your comments on this forum, I can actually tell that you don't either.

It's not a personal matter of mine: In a democracy, when laws are being immoral, it's one duty to expose this fact and strive to change them.

Specifically, I even think that we have a relatively good taxation system and personally I have no serious complaints about it, but this matter has nothing to do with my personal convenience - it is morally wrong to impose this system on those who do not wish to have anything to do with the Australian economy. Only a few laws need to be fixed in order to make the Australian tax system morally acceptable.

<<Hell I'll even help load your luggage.>>

Take care of your back, Sir - you are not that young any more and I've been here for many years, so there would be lots to carry!

... and don't cry that you miss my tax-money if I leave.

the solutions are very narrow and draconian.
Producer,
think about it, the reason we are in such a conundrum is that ever since academia infiltrated & sabotaged the pragmatic world of managing Government is because they perverted a straight forward & logical system & turned it into an artificially complex mess.
There's nothing narrow about the following of basic guidelines & nothing whatsoever draconian about discipline & responsibility. Animals can do but we apparently have difficulty with such a plain a simple concept. Australians in particular are very hasty in blaming Governments when it actually is the populace that is the cause. You can have the best captain but if the crews is incompetent & disinterested there's no way the team can win. Australia is such a team now.

Hi there HASBEEN...

If truth be known, I'd really enjoy accompanying you for a spin in your sports car ! However, you may well be astonished to witness a seventy five year old, disgrace himself as your tacho 'red lines', while we accelerate with great haste, as we hurtle gratuitously and wantonly through the byways of the beautiful Border Ranges !

Should FOXY be brave enough to join us, she would indeed be dismayed and nauseated at the sight of my display of dread and lack of manliness, all the while she thoroughly enjoys her hair being swept about as a result of the immense slipstream.

On another matter, I've developed this embarrassing irritation deep within the groin area, and after seeking medical advice it was determined I was afflicted with this annoying, but easily treated, parasitic mite arachnid. More often referred to as a 'NHOJ' mite ? Best treated curatively, by ignoring it. Though it should not be scratched, it only encourages it ?

HASBEEN, could you imagine for a minute, any politician putting on a set of greens ? Though I have heard the PM himself is well known for many of his outdoor pursuits. There was a Labour politician who had lost both his legs in Vietnam but I think he lost his seat in the last election. I do agree with you absolutely, if more of a our politicians, both State and Federally, had some form of military service, they would be far better equipped, both emotionally and practically, to embrace their jobs, then they are now ? Still it's only my opinion.

O sung wu – An interesting and amusing play with words. I struggle however with your and hasbeen’s iterations that military service is a panacea for all our ills.

Speaking from experience, military service can in some cases do more harm than good. I have seen and experienced barstadisation that has wrecked the lives of numerous young service personal. Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed and value my military service and in the majority of cases the experience is life changing.

I made the comment in response to “Hasbeen” earlier in this thread “What about the Vet’s that have served and suffered as a consequence of their service.”

He responded “I don't know about those poor vets. That $800 I paid for a couple of hours treatment of my dog & a dose of ant tick serum was pretty rewarding to the vet I thought, as was the $400 to put down the one with a snake bite”.

I considered his comment to be ignorance or him playing silly buggers and ignored it. If it was ignorance he has little to basis for his proposal. If it was silly buggers he pays little respect to those who serve.

Individual – Me think’s I hit a nerve. I agree with much of what you say but you offer no solution. The point I have made and will continue to make is a significant percentage of the Australian population are not represented in the House of Representatives. Until all Australian have the power to elect their representatives in government apathy, disinterest and incompetence will continue. I have a lot more faith in my fellow Australians than yourself I think.

Producer: I have seen and experienced barstardisation that has wrecked the lives of numerous young service personal.

If you were Regular Army & joined before National Service, bastardisation was "the System" & you learned to work "the System" or paid for it. They say, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." I guess that's true to some extent. Unfortunately, to-days youth, not all of them, thank goodness, tend to be too soft & girlie. Australia's youth is in danger of becoming a bunch of sooks & claim barstardisation if they can't get their own way.

I tend to favour a type of National Service. Not for the Armed Forces though. I'd say a new type of Force combining, Emergency Services. Fire, Ambulance, Parks & Wildlife, S.E.S, etc.

Producer: I agree with much of what you say but you offer no solution.

One thing I have learnt on this Forum. Don't try to solve the problem. The name of the game is to bitch about everything. I used to offer a rang of possible solutions only to be promptly howled down. It's, apparently, "Not Our Job" to solve problems as I have been told on many occasions..

but you offer no solution.
Producer,
You have obviously not read some of my posts over time. Whenever I don't feel compelled to let a few hangers-on know what I think about them i always put forward my concept of solutions. Problem is that many do simply not understand what I mean by a sense of responsibility & discipline. I have always advocated non-military national service, reduced pay for useless bureaucrates (including those in authority) & make the judiciary accountable also.
I also believe that infrastructure programs need to be instigated pronto. Schemes such as the Bradfield scheme & mono rail as much as possible to cheapen freight cost & reduce exhaust emission from far too many trucks.
Get overseas teachers to educate australian teachers, get overseas engineers to show our engineers what engineers really do, get rid of requent flyer points for public servants, introduce a flat tax, the list is as long as you want it to be. One thing is for sure if we keep going like we're doing now then there will be no point in doing anything.

Jayb – The regular Army was on the other side of town, I was RAAF. You learnt to keep your ear to the ground and be somewhere else if a rumble was on. I’ve seen some poor bastards tossed out of a second story window with their bed and the protagonist’s get away with it.

A multi role multi-level national service I agree would have merit. Much more merit that the over rewarded ineffective parasite professions we are forced to endure and pay for.

Individual – I must confess I am not across the bulk of your posts. I have only a limited and intermittent ability to contribute to OLO. I do however I get the impression from the limited contact I have had with you over time, that your intellect far exceeds mine. Again I agree with most of what you say, but your message is not simple, it is complex and multifaceted in its delivery and is not all inclusive. The reality the great unwashed would never be able to get their head around it, never alone agree to make the required changes.

I ask you both, what is the ONE (zero plus one, two minus one) thing that could be changed, that the majority could understand that would be a game changer?

Good evening to you PRODUCER...

I'm not suggesting for a moment that military service is an essential ingredient for success in life. I believe what HASBEEN and myself were eluding to - Much of the personal development and discipline that is a strong feature of military life, does manifestly assist anyone who is in the process of establishing oneself in the civilian workforce.

There are many characteristics, attributes even peculiarities one learns through military exposure and service life, that can assist a person to accommodate and 'blend-in' to even the most difficult vocational cultures. Sure a stretch in the Army, Navy, or the RAAF isn't the answer to all our workplace problems. But many of the very basic skills one learns can sure help,in my personal opinion.

You may not be aware, but HASBEEN undertook one of the most arduous, and demanding of all military training regimens, one could imagine ? Back in the early sixties, he trained as a Aviator, with the Royal Australian Navy. It was his lot, to try landing military attack aircraft, on the deck of Aircraft Carriers, whilst at sea !

It is little wonder then, that he harbours such a strong military ethic, as evidenced by his spirited social maturity ? Moreover, I would've thought it features as an important philosophical component of his successful lifestyle and vocational strengths !

It's true, protracted exposure to a military environment isn't the 'be all' for success. But it does provide some, with a number of positive and beneficial measures, useful in any civilian occupation, nevertheless !

bd/quote..<<..It's because..we live...in a democratic aristocracy, rather than a plain democracy>>>

/living out a mortal life term...
[BUT]..MY REPLY IS YOUR..FURTHER..WORDS

<<..IT's..because..>>

WHAT IS..[this]..'BE_CAUSE'?..<<WE LIVE..*IN>>

THEN THE ALTERNATE..<<WE ARE Living..in an illusory world of paper/statuted fictions of powers over papers/treaties promised mad promise broken..

truthfully..aN/IN-BREED/DEVIANT/Destructive/EXPENSIVE PATERNALISTIC Oppressive..ELITIST/egotistic../SCRIPTED/FORMATTED..PREDICTIVE SUGGESTIVE/Duplicitous/beuro-eratic/ demonic autocracy

>>?

<<>...we elect..>>
from a limited pool

<<..representatives of *big business,
not representatives..of the people.>>

MAINLY LAWYERS..DOCTORS..[WHO CAN FOLLOW THE Script]..
aND THOSE WHO YOU GOT THE DIRT [HOld]/over]..who follow your commands/BLINDLY\..party loyalists and other control fannatics

<<.. Money rules...And all money is working towards bigger businesses, monopolies, control of global resources which includes people...>>

yes and..WE SHALL BECOME 'SHARECROPPERS'..
SERFS PEONS OR FREE-RANGING IMPOVERISHED/HOMELESS BIO-SLAVES/either with the seLLOUTS..OR EXPUNGED DECLARED WAR UPON/TAXEd..BY OUR MOrtal sin taxes..the living taxed TO DEATH..[TO SUSTAIN DEAD CORPERATE FICTIONS

THE LIVING IS SUBVERTED INTO SERVICE OF THE DEAD CORPPUSS THAT NEVER DIES..BUILT ON MASSIVE WEBS OF LIES//black suits..white lies..MANY FAKE Heads/MANY FAKED TALES/A WINK AND A NOD AND THEY BECOmE GOD...by their own statuted cash cow/UNDER THEIR OWN FRANCHISE 'ACt'..controle the act/control all those bound into THE ACT/UNDER THE ACT

<<..we are a labour resource, a market, a cost,
>>and ultimately, cannon fodder. Money has no conscience.>>

jesus fought the money changers
THE QUEEN NEEDS MERELY DECREE ALL DEBT IS FORGIVEN/
the two popes need only declare RUSSIA THE SOURCE OF THE TREE OF LIFE/THE HEART OF MARY&/the living BEATING HEART..of motherly NESS/MATRIARCHY..AND the mother/lover partner..THAT CHANGES GOVT FRom paternalistic govt..to matriarchal governance

you pair coulD SELL IT/IY SHALL be done on earth
as it is in heaven*

<<..What political party..of such a small population as Australia is going change this global agenda? It's a noble, but futile, notion.>>

NO ..KNOW THE KORAN Says each nation shall recieve its messenger
USA GOT MANY..BUT HOW MANY ION THIs land of ozzzzzz

<<.. We don't even own much of our country, and are about to sell off more. Or to put it another way, this snowball is so big, you don't want to be standing in front of it with nothing but a "stop" sign. :)>>

SAD BUT TRUE/BUT..hrh coin has been debased by the money changers*
AND THE wall street money machine is broke..but bying up as much jard asset as it can get at

hockey gave the fed/9 billion/by fractional RESERVE LEVERAGING IT 10 FOLd thats 90 billion/that big-money needs sit in uSA SCRIPTS/..BUT THE MARKET IS SATURATED..only SANE HEADS CAn save us/but those who know/CANT SEE BUT ENJOY THE ride/
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/enron-2-0-wall-street-wants-manipulate-state-energy-markets-just-like-manipulates-every-market.html

BUT WHERE TO RUN/WHERE TO HIDE/ALL THEIR WEALTH IS ON PAPER/all their proof iS PAPER/YET ALL THE PAPER HAS BECOME SECURITY/LOL FOR OTHER PAPER..NOW THEY WANT THe royal mint?..to hide their tRICK/THEN DONE WITH the roYal treasUre..via paper..its a crime scene/send the coppers in/

AUDIT THE FED
SECURE ASSETS/AUDIT EVERYONE/ authenticate everY CENT
BEGIN WITH THE GAME WINNERS/THAT TOP ONE PERCE-CENT*/pay thE RENT.

but..know
NO MONEY WAS LENT..ONLY ON PAPER FICTIONS WAS IT all CREATED
now we JUST WANNA FIND WHO BEEN GOOD AND bad

see bad..in govt or busINENESS..*thats treason
http://cecaust.com.au/