But apart from that...

>>Pericles, As I said per above - countries like Africa have: "Inefficient harvesting, transportation and storage facilities." This must be addressed, let alone the basic food problems they currently have.<<

... you are comfortable with the idea that the expensive production and consumption of organic food in Australia is extraordinarily self-indulgent?

And presumably also with the fact that crop yields - anywhere in the world - are lower with organic farming?

Isn't that a little contradictory, when viewed from the perspective of a starving child in Ethiopia?

Here's an interesting article about real, starving people, whose ability to fend for themselves has been eroded by charity.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1830392,00.html

Similarly, "Fair Trade" farmers cannot be price competitive in the open market, as a result of which their survival is forever dependent upon charity. By this means, they are catering to the conscience of well-off members of developed countries' middle classes.

But at base, these farmers too are a subtraction from the ability of the world to produce enough food for all.

... you are comfortable with the idea that the expensive production nd consumption of organic food in Australia is extraordinarily self-indulgent?

Pericles, you could say that about strawberry production if you want to, anything that isn't a basic staple could be labeled as self-indulgent to a certain degree, could it not? I could argue bread production is more efficient than cake production, (Marie Antoinette eat your heart out) therefore only bread should be produced.

In response to Pericles, re "Fair Trade" farmers not being price competitive in the "open market" for being forever dependent upon charity and catering to the conscience of well-off members of developed countries. Is this bad?

If people are buying these farmers products and if you've read the link you would see that OXFAM is working towards independent, sustainable farmers in less well off countries. Is this bad?

Australia produces too much food at present and many poorer countries have been pushed out of the 'farm gate' and left to rot, due to Labor and Liberal party unfair 'free trade' or 'open market' policies at any cost - in some cases negatively affecting Australian farmers. Not good for anyone.

Absolutely, Paul1405.

>>Pericles, you could say that about strawberry production if you want to, anything that isn't a basic staple could be labeled as self-indulgent to a certain degree, could it not?<<

My only point was that those who champion the production of organic produce are putting their requirements before the needs of the starving in West Africa.

Not that they are alone, we strawberry-eaters are just as guilty. Nevertheless, it is important to debunk the notion that eating organic food somehow benefits the starving masses, as you point out:

>>I simply believe such a move at the present time would result in an increase in hunger throughout the world, not a decrease.<<

I have no problem either with people who enjoy their expensive organic-produce habit. They earned it, they're entitled to it. But I do take issue with anyone who believes this is somehow a good thing for the hungry in other parts of the world.

NathanJ has stars in his eyes.

>>OXFAM is working towards independent, sustainable farmers in less well off countries. Is this bad?<<

No on the surface, it isn't. Just as the development of a food-based cargo cult in Ethiopia is not "bad", just misguided as a long term policy. By engendering the same dependencies in Fair Trade food production, Oxfam is simply recreating the problem as a farming-based cargo cult.

Is it a matter of 'organic', or really of long term sustainability?

If farmers in developing countries could attract premium export prices for 'organically produced', that would be a good thing.
And it might save many of them from killing or disabling themselves with insecticides.
(How many third-world farmers do you see using the PPE, respirators and such, or practice the protections and measures we, in Oz, are trained to employ as part of our accreditation to even be able to purchase these dangerous chemicals?)

Sure, 'we' have introduced 'modern' farming measures to the developing world - to those who used to be able to feed themselves sustainably, before 'we' made them want more, and made/induced them to produce what 'we' want, like the prawn or shrimp farmers of Bangladesh, whose farms are now saline deserts unable to produce anything else.

'Shadow' points us to studies which show pesticide exposure is only 30% less likely in the organics vs non-organics studied, and that levels detected were within allowable safety 'limits'.
Wow, allowable limits tested over what period of time, over how many generations, and on how many 'guinea pigs'?

The use of DDT was a wake-up call, yet DDT and its derivatives (like Dicofol, which breaks down to a DDT form in the environment) are being produced in China in huge quantities, for use in agriculture in ever-increasing quantities.
How enlightened is that?
DDT appears to be the longest-lived man-made toxin in the environment, appears indestructible, and appears to be present (at currently below toxic levels) in very many 'developed' as well as developing populations.
That's just b-marvellous; well done Modern Science!

The West has been interfering in everyone's business for a long time, with very many detrimental results, and now China appears to be trying to trump those efforts.

God save the world, for Mankind is doing its very best to destroy it.

Saltpeter....If farmers in developing countries could attract premium export prices for 'organically produced', that would be a good thing.

Have you ever given consideration to the fact that organic food usually spoil at a faster rate to non organic, one reason being the lack of pesticides and/or gas

Not exactly an export friendly practice.

As we move towards a world that will struggle with energy prices, what we need to do is come up with ways to increase productivity in food production, not inhibit it and, as organic food production is more energy dependent, those who think we can change and maintain supply are in lar lar land.

The best option, as manynhave already suggested is to grow your own and, if you have spare perhaps you can supply others, but make sure your insurance is in place.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue enjoying affordable foods while they are available. Who knows how long that might be.