We have come to the point which has been described over the years as 'sooner or later', well, it's arrived whereby manufacturing here is dead and it's time to get over it.

I recently got a quote to build a tray back for a new ute I am buying and, for what amounts to a couple of grands worth of steel and a couple of grands worth of hydraulics, I have been quoted almost $21,000.

This is essentially for someone to cut the steel to length, place the prices into a jig and weld it together then send it off to get powder coated.

They then have to fit the hydraulic power pack to my ute,(imported and assembled) fit the ram, then fit and teat the tray.

The sad part is, the boss pays his worker at around $25 per hour, then charges me $120 per hour and struggles to make a decent return for himself, due mainly to the associated costs and compliance regulation he has to obied by.

Twenty one grand latter, it's a joke!

As I say, manufacturing here is dead!

..if you go to nimbin//they will install an air bag lifter
[YOU DONT NEED HYDROlic]..

we need to think smarter..
the POWDER COATED tray..is less than half the cost.
BUT STAINLESS Lasts foRever.

BUT YES I AGREE MANUFACTURING IS DEAD..mainly because builders quote to what you think BEST..BUT ONCE YOU LEAVE THEIR SHOP..THEY GOT OTHER PAYMENT RISKS.

IN..HOUSE..is the Way to go
THE INDUSTRY SHOULD GEAR UP TO upgrade/RESTORE THE CARS WE WENT BROKE BUILDING.

we can today buy..a tablet computer for 60 bucks
I recall my first purchase..was a Standard eight..projector
[aussie made]..cost me 3 weeks wages..[thats when we had TARIFFS..thing is..if i bought..an ozzie licensed tablet..i know it would retail..for 400 BUCKS.

we need allow the dollar to float
not gift 9 billion to the fed to buy its bUying worth DOWN..

PLUS..[inflating its price]..in aussie dollars just so a few internationalist DUEL PASSPORT HOLDING corporations can reap off the cream..AND EARNINGS INTO OF SHORE TAX HAVENS.

Our GDP is up 200 million from this time last year, 1.554 billion at the same time as unemployment is rising. That doesn't make sense.
It is far to early to claim manufacturing is dead. What is the justification for charging $120/hr Butch. You need to look around That is 960$/day. Sounds like someone is taking you for a ride.

....What is the justification for charging $120/hr Butch. You need to look around That is 960$/day. Sounds like someone is taking you for a ride.

579, this is the norm. Go to your local car garage and ask them how much an hour they charge,if it's under $100 they must be cheating the system somewhere.

Also, go to an engineers works and ask them, they usually charge more.

Go to a specialist ford mechanic with an F150, which I sometime drive, they charge $130 an hour, but their mechanics only get around $25/hr.

You see small business today is bogged down with so much compliance, that they struggle to be compliant simply because their business is too small to afford the admin staff. Their only way out is to pass the costs on. It's a joke! And it's the verybreason why our manufacturing industries are all but gone.

Now here's the interesting bit.

Once the car industries fold, they will take thousands of parts man with them. These small to medium, even large manufacturers are only in business because the volume they do for car industries, subsidize their work shops. Without that business they fold. It's already being talked about.

The thing to watch will be this who survive, the guys in their owned sheds, with no debt and few if any staff (outside of family)

They will charge pretty much what they like. It wouldn't surprise me to see rates around $150/hr in the near future, simply because they can.

Not only that, but they will have a smorgasbord of staff to choose from so wages won't go up.

At the moment, we are running Australia like a first world country.(23 million people here..not going to happen and currently not working ).but what if we ran Australia like a second world economy?...50% price drop on everything..wages,fuel,milk, bread, everything!…instead of 50.000 to make a car, 25.000….21.000 for engineering, 10.500 and all this right across the board? Wouldn’t this make our country investable to all overseas interests? Toyota, Holden, not to mention the % costs for a holiday, as flights to Australia would be booked out all year round. Orders would come flooding in from all over the world as we sell it back to the richer countries?…unemployment would be gone, loans, health costs and the lists are endless.

This would never happen, unless Australia became an independent entity….or we can keep putting prices up, until Australia is worthless.

Look at it as a small USA starting out.

A complete overhaul of the system.

Planet3

Life would go on as normal for us, but the world come running.

My sons thoughts.

My thoughts on globalization....all debt back to zero..Then we have a new world...One unified cost and price....but that's the future...or is it:)

Planet3

When the big Goaf outlawed common sense the quality of manufacturing went with it.
I work with 40 year olds who have no idea how to hold a saw or drill a hole or hammer in a nail, work about 3 hrs/day & get paid a full fortnight.

Indy..when the system makes money out of children....what have we got?

Planet3

My last post....its your planet.....don't waste your time on me..

Hello
A country with all resources is not able to manufacture goods for the export and own demand?
How can Europe achieve that.Not many resources over there!
Changes should happen here 25 years ago,may we would be alright by now.
Are we the clever country?
It looks to me that the politician than and today did not have the brain to make the right decision .
Yes,they have sorry . Pay rise to be the best paid in the world.
What's left from this great country , where you have to struggle to make a living.
Very sad!

Kibo,
As I have stated so many times here, it's a matter of mentality.

Planet3, talking dollars, cents and currency can get confusing for some, so a simple excercise is to convert dollars and cents into apples.

Now let's say you earn 1000 apples each week and it costs you 250 apples per week to buy your new car. That's 25% of your apples.

So, if you reduce everyone's pay by half to 500 apples and, you reduce the price of the car which now means yo pay 125 apples per week for your car, it's still 25% of your income, so you're no better off.

Of cause the investor from a different, higher, currency can get doublenthe value of their money BUT, to do this we must find a way to tax them, and a true transaction tax would do just that, as it would tax their money as it enters their onshore accounts (working account) and, it would also tax their money as they transferred it off shore.

So in principle it would work, but not under our current tax system.

rehctub, There is a local manufacturer near here who makes 4 wheel farm tip trailers retail $1,700, I;m sure he could beat your price. He makes ute bodies and specialist trailers. His labour costs $90 p/h.

I'm about to ask you all a rather silly question, so please indulge me for a moment if you will ?

How is it, a country like Germany able to build a huge manufacturing base, involving all manner of engineering. From automobiles, through to white goods, even down to small mfg'd items, like cameras and watches etc ?

Hasn't Germany got a similar demographic to us ? A larger population to be sure (circa 84 million), nevertheless aren't we just as clever as the Germans ? Germany must also negotiate through the 'Union' minefields as do we ? So what's the problem, why can't we build and maintain our own automotive industry ? Something's very wrong somewhere ?

o sung wu, don't forget the Germans own their car companies. All profits generated anywhere in the world have been, & are now still repatriated to Germany. The same thing goes for Japan.

We on the other hand had a foreign owned industry, where profits, when they still existed, were repatriated to the country of the owners.

The Germans build almost as many cars in the US as they do in Germany, but as Johnny come lately, they did not inherit the ridicules labour agreements that almost destroyed the US industry.

Without the union forced labor agreements of the US companies, the Germans, [& the Japs] do very well in the US. In fact BMW have announced they will build their new factory there, attracted by the low energy costs from shale gas development. It appears that the yanks are smarter than us. Their auto unions aren't going crazy & destroying this new chance for jobs with foreign owned car makers.

We on the other hand destroyed our natural advantage of the lowest energy cost in the world, first by state governments robbing us blind with electricity profits they extracted, then with a carbon tax.

Beattie extracted the best part of a billion dollars from the electricity in normal & "special" dividends, using it to pay his blotted public service. Other lefty governments did the same. The only thing left to show for all that money, is empty factories.

All of this adds up to a country that has priced itself out of almost everything, & is trying very hard to price itself out of mining, it's last prospect before collapse.

Hi there HASBEEN...

Thanks for that ol' chap. Of course Holden is GMC and Ford is 'Ford'

Before I go on, I'd already typed my reply to you, and before I had the opportunity to preview it, I somehow lost it in it's entirety ?

I don't know mate, perhaps it's time I left this FORUM for good !

I'm sorry for failing to provide you with a proper response - gee's I get jack of these bloody computers.

You to o sung.

I had a really great post, [my opinion anyway] on another topic, & did not like what spellcheck wanted to do.

Somehow going to another site to check the spelling I lost the thing.

Yep I hate computers too, particularly in my cars, it is bad enough having an exotic typewriter [computer] telling you it won't do what you ask, but I won't accept it from my car.

Don't give up mate, some day some smart bloke will actually tame the damn things, rather than make them more complicated, & harder to use as today.

THE TRICK IS TO USE PREVIEUW
BEFORE EDITING..i NOTICED..the new updates have hyper activated the curser[NOW WE WAve accros..something..it highlights chunks of text..and TYPING ANYTHING DISAPPEARS IT

THE OTHER THING..is some BUTTONS[like top left..somehow disappears the page[butoccasionally taping it again brings it back

thing is..there are a few buttons like this
IT GOT SO BAD AT ONE STAGE..I PUT POWDER..om the keys
that showed up the troubLE BUTTONS AND I REMOVED THEM[THEY JUST pop off]

lets face it us simpletons just need an alphabet..mouse and a shift key[but making simpleton key boards just for us..not anyTIME SOON

WHAT I REALLY HATE IS THE PAGE FREEZE
YOU CANT COPY IT TO SAVE IT..and must eventually just turn it off and start aGAIN

the good news is the security agencies recorded us typing it
they have it on record..so i force my self to rewrite it..so i recall it.

anyhow..for the rest of you the key sHIFTS ARE A BOTher
me too..they stuff up the flow/thinking process.

YEP THEIR A PAIN..BUT ITS a pain we can avoid
by posting..previeuw..a few extra times.

MY TROUBLE IS EVERY RE-eDIT..adds more corrective text
that alloWS MORE RISK..OF PARtial deletion

your right oh song..its just too much
but talking redirects the anger..[on the stick/stones and hurt bones principle]

Hi there HASBEEN...

I'd don't suppose I could borrow a 12g from you by any chance ? I'll fix this bloody thing once and for all...completely !

One of the things I did wish to mention (expressly for you actually) you may be aware they have a small aviation industry situated down in Victoria ? By the name of, Gipps Aero. Their new prototype is the GA10, Turbo Prop, Rolls Royce 250, gas turbine single. The A/C is designed to operate out of unmade strips in the bush, with an almost STOL capability ? Can be configured to carry 10+ pax, plus a fair weight in freight. Trouble is, it's no longer an Oz company, it's been taken over by Mahindra Aerospace, an Indian organisation ?

Seems, whenever we Aussies develop anything really good, foreign investors with substantial cheque books, hover around wishing to buy it, after all the expensive stuff's (testing, C of A etc) has been done ? Take it easy HASBEEN, oh, don't forget the 12g please ?

Hi there ONEUNDERGOD...

I would find it hard to believe that you experience too much trouble with computers ? From what you've written, over the months, even years, you're absolutely no fool ! I recall what you wrote in response to the maths problem STEELEREDUX published hereon a few days ago. I think you were one of the few contributors, to answer the problem correctly ? I think ? Nonetheless, you having trouble with ANY computer, sounds quite remote to me, my friend ? Actually, my computer skills are limited to the very basics, nothing more. Thank you in any case for sharing with me the instance you had your own problems. Which again, I must say would be quite rare ?

Thank you ONEUNDERGOD.

o sung wu..clever [oK CONVOLUTED]..minds cant over ride learning ability and BEING TAUGHT ..i like many bought a darn computer..then figured out how TO turn..it ON..then figured out how to get online then figure out how to wriTE.

just like EVERYTHING..in life..its hit and miss..unless they have been instructed[but even there i cant take instruction[hence the many of my policE issues having been left unresolved..even by the many court cases.

MATE..IM ONE OF THOSE 'LUCKEY'..GUYS..i know god is real..and by the help of gods helpers[ANGEL AS much as demons]..ANY QUESTION..I VOICE IN MY MIND..RECEIVES A DELUGE OF CONFLICTING Ad-Vice...[COMPUTERS WORK Differently..in heaven and hell..plus many of my guides precede COMPUTERS..

plus the computer nurds..USE A CONVOLUTED IMAGRY.
a strange math..where the problem..defines the solution

aNYHOW THEY USUALLY GET ENOUGH INFO THROU..TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION..i knOW..[BUT IN REALITY..my best info..comes via other helpers..RESEARCHES/OTHERS KNOWING [i abuse cut and paste and links]..but....i ask..they send/i post.

this post/presently is laborious..because its typed with a deformed index finger..that moves faster..than i can write..[i can feel the words being spelled/SOUNDED Out..on occasion.bUT USUALLY THE FINGEr just jabs and pokes rapidly..till my mind says enough.

Mate as a former POLICE PERSON..you know the stuff..i post iS OFTEN..right out there..[so much so..i have many MORE OF THE AVERAGE ISSUES WITH THE Militarized version..of policing..IN THIS AGE OF TERROR...remote/Access..unlimited external CONTROL..even VIRUS SLOW KILL ETC.

IN SHORT IM ONLY AN ANIMUS..means.way..to move info..from here to THERE..in a material realm..badly broken..[thats not to say..i have no finger in this game of living..i just do as im told..[i follow orders/but not chain of command.]

over the years..i have asked many questions[often hating THE ANSWER]
but out OF MY Duty to spirit..i just pass the mass-age mess/AGE..[not me sage]..I SIMPLY PASS..THE MESSAGE on.

WHAT PEOPLE THINK..IS OF NO MATTER..IN MY MIND
im here to serve spirit..not men..but..can get into..the men thing only on the edges/spirits are far more immediate

IM A FIRE BRAND/..OUTLAW..
outcast/rejected..by men

[wouldnt HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY]

CTD

O sung wu, go to any engineering firm here in Oz and you will find the best fitter, engineers and developers within that firm are 9out of 10 Germans.

Why, because they are very well tought, by highly experienced experts and their work ethic is head and shoulders above ours.

On the other hand, here, as an employer you feel blessed if your young trainees turn up for work on time. Then, if you send them off to Tafe, chances are they are being tought out of date methods. Just a thought!

Hi there ONE UNDER GOD...

You are far too modest about yourself, or your capacity to tease out many of the answers you seek ! You are like a couple of other fellows I know, your mind, and your thinking is so fast, your typing cannot keep up with your thinking.

Any difficulties you may've had with police over the years, I'd bet some of it was due to a breakdown of communication, of perhaps you may have shown some of them up, with your superior intellect ? Or perhaps you may've been a bit cheeky with them, I don't know ? Still and all, you're a pretty clever bloke ONE UNDER GOD, so your intelligence will serve you well I should think, as well as your obvious religious convictions too.

Take it easy old mate.

Cheers...Sung Wu.

Good afternoon to you REHCTUB...

What in hell's wrong with this damn country ! Surely it's not always been like this ? I remember mates of mine had apprenticeships, they worked hard and were taught well, what happened for goodness sake ? You say many of the best engineers in Oz are Germans ? There's no doubt, they're taught very well and have a proud and high work ethnic ?

I don't believe for a moment Butch, that's the sole purview of German nationals. The Italians are superb engineers; mechanical, civil, aerospace, electronic engineers amongst others. As are the Poms, the Scandinavians, Japanese (particularly), the Yanks...?

So tell me please Butch, what in hells name is wrong with us Aussies, or should we lower our collective heads in shame ?

What's wrong
Government after government has sold out foundational hard fought for principles to big corporate foreign and local interests. The laws which prevented concentration of ownership of media have been betrayed by government after government. h
The concentrated is now complete, and its all the same story, the same tackiness from station to newspaper across the country. The public so distracted with nonsense no longer capable of coherent understanding of the embedded corruption. The current Abbott attack on the ABC is the final end game to finish the job.

Similarly, oligopolies like Coles and Safeway have been permitted to extort and bully its suppliers and effectively destroy business after business. The beloved Howard government staked Australia's entire future as a global quarry, entirely undoing the once remnants and fledgling manufacturing sector nurtured thru the Keating / hawke period.

An education system thus depleted of rational and critical thinking now produces predominantly a stream of pseudo marketers, shallow business degrees, or simply propaganda. There is virtually point no getting an engineering or science degree if all we are is a quarry.

What's wrong? I could go on for pages.

But in essence the clowns who we vote to run the place, no longer can - its all be sold off. When Rudd tried to introduce a mining tax, it was decided not here but in Texas that he must go. In effect, our entire country is now effectively run from the USA.

The Abbott governments current agenda is simply imported US Tea Party libertarianism.

the best measure of who or what is in power, is that which you never criticise. So what is it our media never question, never criticise? Answer that question and your well on the way to understanding what is wrong.

O sung wu, in my opinion the rot started when governments decided to change apprenticeships to 'self assessment' and do away with trade colleges.

I will use butchery as an example.

Trade colleges, despite being behind in practical methods, were very thorough in tech and, as a resut of not having to attend the tech sessions, a complete knowlegpdge of the industry, whichY I was tought, is no longer being tought unless the student goes hunting.

Another major problem is school based apprenticeships, because although great in theory, one day a week is pointless as many students need a refresher from last week, a problem with is amplified by the average decline in educational standards. A better system in my view would be to do two weeks work and one weeks school. Of cause, there are the exceptions.

Now butchery is something that can be picked up quite easily, but I doubt engineering is, especially if one has poor math skills.

Another problem is the uprisingnof all these RTO's, as their main aim is to GET PAID, and the only way they get paid is to sign off apprentices.

The last problem is interfering parents, as many employers are now terrified of unfair dismissal or sexual harassment laws.

Take India for an example. Kids live in cardboard boxes on the footpath just so they can gain an education, whike many of our kids look for a job that doesn't interfere with their social lives, and most of them are addicted to Facebook on their phones and don't really care about job.

How many times have you heard the checkout operator say, only 7 miniute to go epwhen you ask them how their day is going.

Pretty much sums it up!

I trained at least 20 apprentices and only 2 qualified, as the rest couldnt hack the discipline I insisted on.

My two who made it though are excellent tradesman.

Hi (again) REHCTUB...

That's disgusting, absolutely disgusting ! You had twenty apprentices, and only two struck it out, and became competent tradesmen. I've heard similar stories Butch, from others who claim they can't find suitable people to undertake an apprenticeship.

Yet a couple of months ago we had an electrician do some minor work for us (only a young bloke, though qualified), and he worked for this contractor, and he was so happy to earn the amount of money he was getting !

Only in his early twenties, he was well on the way to obtain his 10% deposit for his first home, all in his early twenties. Further, he owned outright, his shiny new Ford Ute, with the big V8, and all 'tricked up' with wide wheels etc. Yet he doesn't owe a cent on the thing ! All because of the good money he earned as a 'sparky' ! He did however, reluctantly admit as a first year, even second year apprentice, the wages weren't marvellous. Nevertheless, on gaining his ticket, the bucks began rolling in. And good on him for applying himself zealously, both to his trade and to his employer!

You mentioned Butch something I believe is a very important vocational component indeed, for ALL of us...Discipline ! The discipline to get up and go to work, arrive on time, dress appropriately for the job, groom one's self, consistent with the requirements of the job, perform a day's work, for a day's pay, take a sickie only when one's sick, and all the other myriad of important details one must observe, in order to keep your job, and improve your skills. You never stop learning eh Butch ?

And for this reason, I absolutely agree with you, 'discipline', is often found lacking in many of these young people these days, and that's an incredibly sad situation for our country, don't you think ?

I can't agree with you rehctub, that in school apprenticeships are a waste of time. My wife ran the local high school system for the P&C, as it was not working when run by teachers. They did not select the best kids, letting any in, often kids who just wanted a day off, out of class. Employers had got sick of useless kids wasting their time, so would not offer places.

It took a while, but with careful selection of the kids it took off.

She sold it as getting first option on the pick of the years best kids to the employers, & as a chance to find out about a trade, with a good chance of employment at school end, to the kids. The kids did not learn much about a trade, but lots about work, & employers knew which kids were suitable for their business.

The kids learnt that many trades require more math than most university degrees, & the better ones knuckled down at school. A friend who was a high school math & biology teacher is now teaching math at tech. He tells that most electrical trade courses require more math than even the better kids have from school. He loves teaching students who really want to learn.

He tells us that the in school apprentices are the best prepared, as they found out while still at school just how much they had to know, & either dropped out, or worked much harder at school. In our district it is a real success story.

O sung wu, another trend that has become the norm, is boys from broken homes.

Of my 20 app, I can think of about 6 that had their original mum and dad at home.

What was common, especially for broken home boys, was to start work with a great attitude, however, as they matured (in years) they became more dominant at home, then brought that to their workplace. It didn't cut with me.

I got threatened a few times by the app board for sacking apprentices, I told them to go jump, it was my business and its a case of my way or the highway. You know, how it was when we were kids.

Hasbeen, like anything, there are always exceptions and I'm glad to see it works for your area.

One the subject of apprentices, a 1st year is on 50% of a trade wage.

Trade Butcher $21.50 odd per hour.

Trade Electrician $45 odd ore hour

In 99 a butcher was on $15/hr, an electrician $17/ hr.

This is why we struggle to get butchers any more and won't change because retail is consumer driven.

Red meat is on the nose, be lucky to have 2 kg's / yr.
Chicken is the go, Since they marbled meat i gave it away. It's a changing trend, and hard to resist.

That's the go mate, support the old forced feeding brigade.

Would you like extra Hormones with that sir!

Hi there YEBIGA...

Some of what you say is right. We've probably not had a really decent government in Canberra for half a century. True Whitlam bought in Medicare, a huge step forward for those without means to pay for private health care.

I wonder though whether we can always blame government for our failings ? Several folk on this topic have run businesses, REHCTUB described how, out of around twenty odd apprentices he trained, only two made it through their apprenticeship (the butchery trade). Ostensibly, the other eighteen or so lacked the personal discipline to see out their training ? Is this the fault of government do you believe YEBIGA ?

On this issue, I believe in part, it may well be a contributing factor ? Our education system these days doesn't wish to inculcate this personal quality, of discipline into the minds of students. Rather they spend time telling these kids about all their rights, rather than instructing them about their responsibilities to themselves, their parents and to society at large ?

The last fifteen years or so I worked, I had these young thugs/punks, (many still in their late teens) regularly telling me where to 'get off' or threatening to do me in, or some other laughable ultimatum or other ? The point is, at this critical age, where they should be thinking of consolidating their careers, pursuing higher tertiary education, saving-up for a car, they were wandering around threatening the coppers ? Is this not symbolic of a complete absence of personal discipline (a lack of self-control) ? The teaching of discipline begins firstly at home, with their parents. It should then progress through their entire schooling.

However, with so many broken homes, and bad parenting, most of these poor little buggers don't have much chance. School merely wishes to divest themselves of these irritating agitators. Agitators the schools themselves, helped create ? Their only notable mention, is after they secure their release from a stint in Long Bay Gaol. Then, for all but a very few, crime is the only competence they'll ever possess ?

....Is this the fault of government do you believe YEBIGA ?

Well, depends how far you want to go, because after all, it was governments that took corporal punishment out of schools and stopped parents (in many cases) from disciplining kids and, above all else gave kids rights they never really had, so I guess that's a large portion of the blame. ( I wrote this before I read your second paragraph)

The other one that amazes me is that most students these days seem to think that when they leave school (grade 12) that they have worked so dammed hard that they deserve a few month, or even a year off to recover. Fair enough if they achieved a HSC of one to three, but seriously!

They also have this feeling that the world owes them a living and, if they find a job for three shifts a week, they are employed.

Which ever way you look at it our youth is not performing as well as they need to if we are to prosper from their leadership, much of which is our own fault because we made life to easy for them. Well, at least the do-gooders did.

Imam proud to say that my wife and I have two fine young adults, hard workers and motivated .

That's what really does matter to me.

PLANET3,

Seriously?

You think that we should turn Australia into a Second World type Economy?

You wish to lower standards, wages, etc., etc. to a point where Australia can actually compete with other Third World economies which are driven by the Greed of the world and inherently corruption in these economies where such massive slave-worker forces are normal.

How is that a good thing or even a viable option? Europeans went down that stupid road of slavery, serfs etc. But our society’s put a stop to all this over the next 2 centuries.

This is why today I get very distressed when I see that the same 1st world cultures losing sight of those great historical lessons that took centuries for Europe to develop through before the term “1st World” was even a possibility, and flocking to all these super cheap happy go Slave markets of Asia to GREEDILY get the best deal.

“BUT IF WE DON’T USE CHEAP ASIAN LABOUR WE CAN’T COMPETE!” – they typically claim as escuse.

We have the choice and always did, to get together with all of the other first-world type nations who have developed culturally such that their own citizens in their own nations could never again be bent into such submission . . . . . . . to get together and to stop this global menace which threatens to destabilize the world and all of the achievements the west made in human rights etc.

Why did the US and UK etc. bother fighting such menaces in WWII if they are not willing to now perhaps use force if required to subdue these economies into realizing that such mistreatment is illegal and we are not going to allow it?

Sure now with many third world nations now possessing nuclear arsenals, and this is why the west should have foreseen this after WWII and “nipped it in the bud” back then.

Still the matter needs attending, and the longer we leave it we merely leave it to some future generation who will have an increasingly harder time the longer we let it go.