Well those two posts salty have given a new reason to save the last cannery!
Not that I was unaware but your reminder is worth our thoughts.
Australia NEEDS a manufacturing industry and its farm produce.
Conservative governments once supported both.
A linked action is here, Victoria is not far from an election.
One that Labor looks more than likely to win.
By then it will have lost Tasmania[maybe for 20 years plus or minus a few] and South Australia,to win either would be unheard of in current polling.
Premier of Victorian could have won Novembers election just a week ago, by funding SPC.
We are not a penniless country yes we are in debt,as is every western country except Germany.
But the way to get back in the black is not by hurting our farmers, the victims in this matter.
I remember and question ,Abbott,s promises and support for manufacturing during his year long factory door parade what else has this man forgotten?

Hi there SALTPETRE...

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for a moment, either our political system or our politicians, were simply engaged in a 'big game' ? I was merely referring to our various points of discussion, on this prestigious forum of ours (and Graham's), is just a 'big game', a diversion. Nothing else.

If we were to take anything really seriously that has been strenuously discussed or expressed on this Forum, we should perhaps, withdraw from any further input immediately ? Life has more than sufficient challenges and impositions that really do need our attention, Without adding any further, unnecessary complications ?

i feel much thE SAMEway..its getting too difficult..[ie just to get to this POST..page..i had to unplug my mouse 4 times]..AND return the lower case key ..8 times to just POST THIS one sentance.

regardless..i just watched the farmers lobby hour/repeated monday]
and saw this poor hard up farmer..[with at least 100 sleek black healthy/beasts..[he owns two 'farms'..has 'had' tosell off all but hid 'breeding stock'

he hasnt had to apply for assistance to feed them[yet]..but did last-time..we saw some fences..and recall we builT THEM..with other grants..plus we saw some iRRAGATION WATER PIPING..thanks be to more govt handouts

i seen other times 3 rd generation/whiners..[once that got huge cuntry size estates for pennies on the dollar or by govt grants

i also noted thE PRESENTER..at the end..of the piece..with behind her a lush crop..OF tall green grass[PLUS a full dam]..on some other farm/getting tax free tax deductible machines/fuel fencing and feed transport..poor them

also i heard barnibaby..tell of a poor fella..hIRED A TRUCK..totake his hundreds of BEASTS..of his over stoCKED..land..to market[but they wernt fit enough to transport..so he shot them..then himself..[and i thought huh?

salty tolD ME OF ANOTHer..are these factoids .or what?

ifuirther thougHT..he could buy bullets
could hire A TRUCK..and there is blarneby..telling me they cant get electicty bills paid[well we got the same issues..many shopkeepers went broke...see the shops empty in main street

thing id some have too much..they over stock..the land
knowing they got the muscle to get bailed out by the rest of us.

well we need use up our 'resources'..but they can KEEP their machines
but shopkeepers dont..but govt shouldnt be there for those whO NEVER LEARNED TO TAKE THE WIN..before the loss.

inverters often get back pennies in the dollar
so what cost OF production..how much is left..can they EVER..pay back.

THING IS ..no..they gET TAX FREE RIDES
ever expanding..till the day they went bust leaving the banks [IE US SAVERS]..with pennies on the dollar..

ok your bust..please LEAVE...any future farming must HAVE A BOND..lower..stocking rates for the damages your greed set up.

NEXT COMES THe dust bowls.

Me old mate o sung wu, I wasn't having a go at you, and tend to agree with you that this forum probably shouldn't generally be taken too seriously - though quite a few of us have erred in that regard from time to time, and on occasion got our fingers (or ears) burned in consequence.

However, I usually don't treat it as only 'just a game', and generally hope for some considered and lively debate of the actual issues.
But, I have no problem with what you posted, particularly taking account of the context of your reply to Belly.
Certainly it would take much from the pleasure of OLO if we were all overly serious all of the time.

It's just that your mention of our being involved in a 'game' set me thinking about a range of other more serious things which appear to be treated as a game. We have seen some of this in the recent Federal Senate elections - games, and some chicanery, I suspect.
Some here on OLO also point the finger at various politicians with more than a little derision (much of it largely without foundation - but that reality does nothing to deter the barbs), and potentially inferring that politics may be the 'ultimate' game.

My posts were actually aimed to focus attention on what really matters, in the broader context, and how we might possibly more effectively address and evaluate such important issues, by divesting ourselves of the limitations of our personal and political bias.
I suspect I was very much overly optimistic; it's no easy thing to be totally objective, about anything, let alone about politics, IR, the environment, or policies, bureaucracy, budgets, and the economy.

Ideals, in preference to ideology, appears rather a big ask, and possibly a bridge too far - at least for some.
(But then, we're only human.)

Good afternoon to you SALTPETRE...

Your last thread was perfect ! You enunciated precisely your intent, your objectives and your overall aims. Moreover, not only for this precious country, our political system, and our elected political representatives. Last but not least, this acclaimed Forum of ours, and Graham's of course !

You write so very clearly, therefore it's a pity some of the other contributors don't follow your exercise in clarity, as a fine example of how to write. It would make it so much easier for us all to follow exactly what they intend to convey. I for one really appreciate it, SALTPETRE, thank you.

I have had the reason to speak with a couple of people who I each sold a business to a number of years back. Both are now really struggling. What they have directly put it down to is people being reluctant to spend due to job uncertainty and this is intuitively true. If you were an SPC, Ford, Toyota, Alcoa or Holden worker, knowing your job would not be there in a few years, you would be watching every penny, either saving it or throwing it at your mortgage.

Both of them have tightened their wages bill and are contemplating further cuts.

So it will be instructive to see what will happen with the unemployment figures that come out on Thursday. The figure is currently at 5.8% with some saying it will stay the same. My bet is it has a good chance of hitting 6.

Both had indicated the hope for a lift with the election of the coalition government. That they are now experiencing the opposite has them rethinking their support. They will ride it out if Abbott can explain what he intends to do to turn things around but at the moment he has given them nothing.

I think people tend to dramatically underestimate the damage job insecurity can do to an economy. We could be in for a very bumpy ride.