Both Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey were called liars today for the position they have taken over the decision not to assist SPC. Not by Labour or the Greens but by one of their own, Liberal MP Sharman Stone.

Quote from The Australian;

"What they said was, `we're not going to help because it is the amazing wages and conditions that have knocked this company for six', and that is just wrong,'' she told ABC radio.
"They're not speaking the reality ... It's not the truth.''
She said "lying was unparliamentary language, but, "that's right, it's lying''.

End quote.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/spc-ardmona-rejects-allowance-claims-as-mp-sharman-stone-accuses-pm-of-lying/story-fn59noo3-1226817307657

Ouch.

To top that off we now hear Joyce is wanting to find billions of dollars to cover the bad debts of drought stricken farmers. One gets the feeling the SPC decision is going to cost their credibility dearly.

I suppose Sharman could be like Shorten and agree with everything Gillard says despite not even hearing her.

I feel the same way SteeleRedux.
All politicians lie, even the holy Abbott.

Runner, you need to get over your fixation with Gillard.
She is not in Parliament anymore.

Dear SteeleRedux,

As Dennis Pryor stated in his comical, critical, satirical,
look at Australian politics called, "Political Pryorities,":

"Polspeak is the vrbose, hypocritical, mendacious, and
ambiguous language of politicians and their hangers-on. Its
fundamental method is to express everything so vaguely and
densely that polspeakers can extricate themselves from
difficulties by claiming not have have said what they did
in fact say..."

And Mr Abbot and Co as we've seen in the past are so good
at "polspeak." Now of course we're learning they're also
good at lying as well. But goodness me - what else
can we expect from a government that doesn't answer questions
that doesn't seem to believe in transparency or accountability
and who seems to be losing the public's trust.

Lying, is part and parcel of their behaviour. Look at the slogans
and rhetoric that got them elected, look at the lies and
inaccuracies that were spread prior to the election concerning
every single issue - from the state of the economy, to asylum
seekers, to the carbon tax, you name it. So why should any of us
be surprised to learn that a man who's admitted on national
television that he has trouble "with the gospel truth," lying.
It's to be expected and Joe Hockey et al, have to follow suit,
if they want to keep their jobs. Anyone remember -

1) Tampa Aggair
2) Children Overboard Affair
3) Unlawful detention of Cornelia Rau
Unlawful deportation of Vivian Solon
4) AWB - Oil-for Wheat scandal
5) Muhamed Haneef affair
6) Lindsay pamphlet scandal
Utegate or OzCar affair

And the list goes on. Did they tell the truth then?

No problem there SteeleRedux, the Mad Monk will go to see Archy Pell on Friday about this and other sins, for a bit of "Confession" and after three "Hail Mary's" and a "Glory Be To The Father" Tony will be absolved.
"Bless me Father for I have sinned...."

When I was a kid, in Catholic School, I used to do it all the time. But never told "Father" about the "juicy bits" but he was always asking!

p/s The Mad Monk could be in the "Box", as us kids used to call the "Confessinal", for a long, after all he has a long list of sins this week already, and its only Wednesday. My advice to Tony is don't tell Archy about the "juicy bits" no matter how many times he asks. I actually told the old bloke once about the "juicy bits" and I think he had, how do you say it, a "funny" experience, in his box!

Thank you for the responses.

To me what is interesting is the implications for Abbott and his credibility, credibility he should have gained to some extent by becoming PM.

The fact that the accusation came from within the Liberal Party ranks is quite significant. Sure it is not unprecedented. Howard got called a lying little rodent by one of his own, but not this publicly.

I suppose we recognise that politicians are loose with the truth but the confident ones like a Keating or a Katter or a Windsor or even to a certain extent, from Monday night's Q&A, Barnaby Joyce, often make it pretty plain that expediency is the reason for their lack of candour on an issue.

And remember Abbott's track record is not good. Who can forget “Lying to the ABC is not like lying to the Australian people”. I think we are getting to a stage when listening to Abbott the default setting has become trying and judge how much is spin or even outright bulldust. The sense he is trying to take you for a ride is palpable.

This is the same sense we get from many politicians around election time but this is not a good look for a PM early in their first term. We expect better, especially from our PMs because we instinctively look for greater gravitas from the leader of our nation. If anything we are getting the reverse from Abbott.

And when my mother stops defending him I know he is in trouble.

Anyone who couldn't see Abbott for what he is when the Hanson/Ettridge matter came to pass can only blame themselves. Lies to the Qld Police, lies to the Electoral Commission, lies to Parliament and still you voted for him...wake up Australia! Fuhrer Howard was the portent, now if we are not on our toes, we will most likely see the full force of the unfettered, unrestrained Attorneys Generals enmeshing into their snares the likes of a father, & his two sons going for an innocent motorcycle ride only to be locked up as 'Bikies' - vide Qld motorcycle gang laws enacted.

First they came for the motorcyclists...and no one spoke up. Then they came for the rest of us...and no one stood up!
We had allowed ourselves to be hamstrung.

Oh dear, Oh dear, my beloved LNP appear to have been telling fibs - again ? And all this time I've harboured this belief that at least, with the Coalition, there'll be an appreciable degree of truthfulness, and honesty inculcated in the manner in which they run government ? So disappointing, so very disappointing indeed ?

I can only conclude, that lying, deceit, mendacity amongst other things, are all merely just a sequela to being elected to a political office ? Having done so, it would appear one is subjected to this strange transmutation, whereby the designation, 'politician' is conferred, and there you have it, mendacity is a sequela to political life. ? Frightening stuff, isn't it !

More power to you SRD.
Truth however is no reason to stop the few anti workers/union rants.
In fact not understanding the issue is fuel for silly walks comments.
I recommend reading the local member a Liberal, in attachments in the ban Coke thread.
And ask this if EBA are sending firms broke why do they sign them?
Paul Howes press club speech showed true brilliance and a way forward.
Unfortunately Abbott and his faction in control of the Liberals could not be trusted to deal fairly with the idea.
Thankfully while Tony and his mate Murdock are an unfortunate joke they combined are the best thing the ALP has going for us.
Thanks Tony for your inability to think ah um better than you talk ah um gee um!

It looks as though even Howes agrees with Abbott:

One of Australia's most senior union officials has criticised the industrial relations system for "dragging Australia down" and fired a broadside at "criminals" who betrayed the union movement and hijacked its agenda.
Australian Workers Union chief Paul Howes has called for a "grand compact" between business and unions to take the heat out of the industrial relations debate and admitted wages in some sectors had increased too quickly.

While Labor was happy to chuck money at any high wage unionised industry when it got in trouble, they never addressed the causes of the loss making industries.

After inflicting Gillard on the country, I am absolutely amazed that there is a single lefty game to use the word liar again.

Surely the word is forever welded to Rudd & Gillard, & should make any of their ex supporters hang their heads in shame.

For anyone interested in reading a slightly fuller context of
what Mr Howes said at the Press Club here's a snippet taken
from Google News as reported in The Australian:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/union-offers-olive-branch-on-ir-reform/story-fn3dxiwe-1226818765154

Particularly interesting is what Mr Shorten had to say.
It sums up the feelings of many political commentators.

Dear SteeleRedux,

Here's a link that may be of interest to you:

http://newmatilda.com/2014/02/03/one-firms-subsidy-anothers-burden

'afternoon all...

What we need in matters of Industrial Relations, Messrs Abbott, Shorten and Howes, is someone who will ensure only the truth will be spoken, no more political manoeuvring, and no more posturing for individual party benefit or the electorate !

There's too much at stake, for us all; the workers, management, industry, in fact the entire country ! I think it's now time for both government and the unions to assume a more bi-patrician approach, in all matters involving Industrial Relations. Australia cannot continue to have it's manufacturing base abraded any further. The other day, I went into a large department store for a business shirt. Sure there were many styles from which to choose, however none were made in Oz. Why so ?

Look at the motor vehicle industry ? GM Holden has been here since 1948, an absolute Aussie icon. Yet the company is now literally cleaning out it's locker. With Toyota already closely examining it's options, whether to stay or go ?

I know nothing of IR. But surely, the only sustainable panacea to this industrial impasse, is to broker a bi-partisan remedy. Maybe then, we might just manage to salvage some remanence of our once revered manufacturing reputation ?

Dear o sung wu,

I think it is a given that the vast majority of politicians do lie, it seems to come with party politicians. The fact that many people respected the independents in the last parliament I feel came from the fact that they were not forced to toe any party line and thus were able to be far more forthcoming.

The liar jibe was levelled at Gillard for the 'No Carbon Tax' promise and at Howard for the No GST promise. Gillard however faced a hung parliament and Howard put an election between his promise and the implementation. Abbott's problem is that his untruthfulness is immediate. Instead of articulating his vision or his reasoning, it seems every time he opens his mouth it is to take a pot shot; and telling a fib, in his world at least, is a small price to pay to land a blow.

Dear Belly,

From what I have read of Howes' message I think he is heading in the right direction but I think Abbott will struggle to move from the belligerent stance he seem wedded to, but who knows.

Dear foxy,

Thanks for the links especially the New Matilda one. I remember a billboard ad on the highway near us was some motor vehicle leasing firm possibly having to reduce its workforce because of the then government's aggressive moves to clean up the rorting going on in the sector. This is a sector mind you that is not manufacturing anything, just parasites. They wanted that rorting to continue and Abbott has acquiesced basically supporting them in the order of hundreds of millions of dollars in foregone taxes.

In an SPC media release sent to all Coalition colleagues by Ms Stone yesterday, the company said the excessive redundancy payments had been trimmed back to 52 weeks in 2012. However, the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union has confirmed that almost all of the plant's more than 400 or so employees were employed under a previous enterprise agreement that provided for redundancy of four weeks' pay for every year of service, up to a maximum of 104 weeks.

So it looks like Ms Stone owes Abbott an apology.

THE LIBERAL GOVT..is guilty of treason..[FULLSTOP]

whEN JOE..'gave'..9 billion in borrowed cash..to the fed
it was the final straw of treason..[the bankers stole our treasure
[took away legal tender..ie coin..see..the federal constitution..115]

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/11thmarble.php

ignorance of the law is no excuse
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbankers.php

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/slavetobanks.php

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/MBS4dummies.php

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/bankersinonechunk.php

It seems to be a fashion to abuse Abbott at every opportunity, and the
latest liar accusations seem to be true to form.
Accusations are made very quickly before either correction or
affirmation of correctness can be made.
Just throw mud quick !

I have heard comment that what Abbott said was correct, and
that the company statement was misleading.

Obviously I have no direct knowledge of SPC's union agreement but
I notice two things;
1. The accusations of lying have stopped.
2. No apologies have appeared.

I have noticed that this is a patten which the Labour/Green/Lefties
should have a think about as it detracts from everything else they say.

The thread leaves room to revisit last years Federal election.
Many claim a mandate for Abbott, and that he defeated the ALP.
I think this is not true, the ALP clearly defeated it self.
Voters started to turn on Labor just before the 2010 election.
And we never stopped bleeding them away.
So Abbott and his faction, the right of right within the Liberal party went in to Government.
Wrongly thinking it was his policy's, all off them, that put him in power.
Abbott is the very best opposition leader, against his own Government, we ever had.
Polling is remarkable, surely only few of us thought the Mad Monk would not win a honeymoon?
I believe and have often said so Abbott will not serve out his first term as Liberal leader.
Should we have a few by elections, let them please be in coalition held seats, to test my view the Australian voter is concerned about the man and his policy's.

It should be remembered that Liberal Prime Ministers have a long history of lying to the Australian people. Starting pre war with 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies lying about the Japanese. Then Holt, Gorton and McMahon lied to the people about the Vietnam War. This was followed by Frazers and lies about supply. Howard was a past master at lying, lied about everything, children overboard for one. Abbott is merely following in his predecessors footsteps when it comes to lying about workers, asylum seekers etc. Abbott may well prove to be the biggest lying Liberal Party Prime Minister ever, and that will take some doing as many have been guilty of telling some real woppers!

Who can forget Juliar's "there will never be a carbon tax under the government I lead" and other great lies, or Krudd who never made and election promise he didn't break.

Whatever you claim about Liberal dishonesty, the ALP out does it 100 fold every time.

Belly,

You are right, Labor lost the election because of its chronic incompetence and dishonesty, and has lost the trust of the voters.

Abbott has already met one of the 3 main election promises to stop the boats, which is one more than Labor achieved in 6 years.

O sung wu,
Out manufacturing began to slide when the Whitlam government drasticly reduced tariffs and this has continued ever since. Few Aus manufactured products can now be obtained. Remember Letona, another previous make of canned fruit, now gone.

Belly,
what is this obsession you have with Abbott, you cannot write a post without commenting about him. I am not sure if it is just your obsession alone or a hang up of Labor that they place so much emphasis on the party leader. A leader is not the only party member and all members play a part in their policies. It seems Labor must have a messiah to lead and nobody else counts.

I feel sorry for you as Labor candidates still do not learn. On the eve of a by election the Labor candidate for Griffith said, "Labor has such a proud history of welcoming immigration, of opening our borders and encouraging people of all cultures to come her and that’s something I’m proud of".

After labor lost the last election basically on this issue, you would think she would keep her trap shut. Who instructs the candidates?

Dear SteeleRedux,

I'm glad that you found the link I gave of some use.
I'm going to be taking a break from this forum for
a while for personal reasons. I may be back (or not),
however I wish you every success in continuing to provide
intelligent discussions. The forum needs more contributors
of your ilk.

Take care.

Take care Foxy, I'm sure we all wish you the very best, and will very much look forward to your return in due course.
Should you decide not to return, your balanced and caring contributions will be sorely missed.
God speed, and keep well.

Peter.

hope they cure you this time mate

my best mate lies dying in hospital..][MIKE REVERA..AT WHAT REALLY HAPPEND..but i know your going to be just fine..come back soon dear..

your special..TOO ALL OF US.

where is piper/..is..SHE SICK TOO?

Dear foxy,

All the best.

You have always been a 'good cop' on this forum and have served to balance out my 'bad cop' whenever we have been on the same thread, so try not to stay away too long.

Foxy, get well soon. Thanks so very much for the decent and informative posts over the years here on OLO. Best wishes from Albie & family.

Good afternoon to you FOXY...

I sincerely hope you're OK ? Your health is stable, and you're otherwise well ? In any event, I'd like to add my own best wishes to all those expressed by many of the other contributors herein. You're too greater loss for this Forum to sustain, so please hurry back soon. I realise I'm being dreadfully selfish, I'm so sorry. Please take care FOXY.

Sung Wu.

Good afternoon to you STEELEREDUX...

Our lovely and eloquent FOXY has decided to leave us for a time ? I feel so very sorry. I certainly hope none of my idle loquaciousness has caused her to review her reasons for continuing with her contributions herein ? Sometimes my playful jousting can antagonize or impede others from actively engaging with topics, or pursuing an active part at all ? Perhaps it's I, who should attempt to tidy up his vocabulary ?

Sung Wu

Foxy ...... good luck and hurry back if you can.
I like your style.

Love,
Suse.

Foxy,
You will be missed.
Return as soon as you can.
Take care.
SD

There is an email doing the rounds at the moment which lists, some of the benefits alleged to be paid to the employees at SPC. If the said email reflects the truth, then there will be a long list of apologies due to the Prime Minister and Treasurer.

Anyone who knows the gravy train all Politicians are on, once elected, can well understand why Ms Sharman is defending her 'voters' ie:employees, families and businesses and farmers) reliant on the cannery.

There is such a difference between Government employment and the rest of the real world (excluding SPC if the email about their benefits is correct) out here in Aussie land.

If SPC wants Australian Tax Dollars, then let Sharman be responsible for publishing the SPC Award in full including all negotiated benefits. I for one, would be interested in seeing who the real liar is, and whether my tax dollars should or should not be invested.

One of the hazards of oversees investors buying Australian companies, is perhaps to bankrupt them, making Australians, less able to feed ourselves, tool our industries or even clothe ourselves. Scares me the way we are heading.

Instead of Politicians having to face a less than impressive press daily, time needs to spent focusing on planning for generations to come, instead of the next election.

Any Politician 'lying', in my view, should be forced to resign, not leave it up to the electorate to terminate their employment at the next election.

You anti Labor at any cost blokes amuse me.
Please amuse me! tell me about the problems on your team.
Say start with that idiot no longer a member of the Libs holding Victoria to ransom over his wish for a bigger car!

The EBA in place at this factory was a product of both sides.
Sitting down at the same table, bargaining some things away some offers made by both sides.
Then both sides agreed with it.
Howes said it like it is both sides need to stop the fantasy the wrong is in the other side always
your glee and happiness is about to increase Tasmania tainted by a dysfunctional greens/Labor government is about to be yours, maybe for two decades.
SA too is clearly yours.
Victoria however is ours and first step on the long way back, tomorrow we retain Griffith .

Belly, for some on here a buck a week and a bowl of rice is seen as being "ON THE GRAVY TRAIN". According to them the old aged pensioner and low income worker, are grossly over paid. While on the other hand they have no problem paying the incompetent Abbott a very fat salary and millions a year in expenses. Like wise, they think nothing of the bloated pay checks for the corporate clowns running many Australian businesses.

kitten,
Agreed, what you state is common sense.
Look forward to reading more posts like that.

Belly,
Whatever the outcome of tomorrows by election, Labor candidates comments, re immigration, should have been a gift for her opponents.

Does not illustrate common sense or intellect. Surely not the cream of the crop!

Kitten, no need for any sinister emails doing the rounds. The SPC - Union Enterprise Agreement is a public document ratified by the Fair Work Commission. So there is no mis-comprehension, here is a link. You can read it for yourself.

http://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/agreements/fwa/AE899535.pdf

I find it a detailed document, well thought out, and to the benefit to both employer and employee.

weLL SAID ..kitten

i agree yet again..with paul[heck i even agreed with much clubbers has written recently[gst thread]

anyhow/PAUL..YOU WROTE..,,..<<..for some on here a buck a week and a bowl of rice is seen as being "ON THE GRAVY TRAIN".>>

OF course your right..[again]
BUT..the big difference=..what type of rice
ie gmo/rice..makes 3 rd gen sterile

ie white rice causes..BERRY BERRY?[IE A SICKNESS]
plus diabetes..[i got the dis-ease..wrong?..so tried google
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=white+rice+causes&

but my THOUGHT FLOW..has moved on

how about poisE-end rice[like we gave the ab-origonal..poisend flour
and we pollute our city-zENS..with fluoride to make us docile..or the carconogenic rubbish in our airs..the hormoans in our waters etc

Joe Hockey has announced the entitlement era is over.
He said re SPC that the government would have to borrow the money for SPC.
Which raised a thought, why does not SPC go to the banks and borrow the money ?
Are they saying the banks will not lend to SPC ?
If so then the risk must be too high.
If the risk is too high why should the government give SPC any money at all ?

Paul, Thanks for the link.

The 2 significant and contentious points in the 95 page SPC agreement is the rates of pay and the maximum redundancy payout. As for pay rates there are 9 levels, the lowest termed an S1 @ $23.96/hr to an S9 @ $30.30/hr. The rates of pay reflect the type of industry and skill levels, I don't know, but I imagine there are not too many S9's about the place.
As for redundancy there are two types of employees, those employed prior to 1st July 2012 and those employed after that date. The old employees maximum payout is 104 weeks and new employees 52 weeks. Firstly, no one envisaged the business going belly up so soon after the agreement was made. To receive the 104 weeks one would have to be a 20 year plus vet to get near that figure and those new people i.e after 1st July 2012 at the moment get zero weeks entitlement and if they had stayed on for another 40 years they would never have received any more than 52 weeks pay.
Abbott, Hockey stop lying!

Paul,

You just open your mouth to talk rubbish. Since SPC has been in trouble for a while, there are very few employees on the new conditions.

While the wages are not hugely significantly higher than award, the "conditions" such as extra loadings on overtime, the ability to cash in sick leave, 4 weeks redundancy pay per year worked, etc, bring the total cost to nearly double the headline salary. The company contributes to the union run unemployment insurance, of which most goes into the union's pocket, and union officials get 2wks paid union training.

Typical conditions are 1 week redundancy per year worked limited to 13 weeks. Sick leave of >1 day requires a sick note, and Sick leave is not cashed out.

However, the main reason that SPC is losing money is that their market is disappearing. The new equipment to improve efficiency is not going to reduce the competition, nor the fact that consumers are moving to fresh fruit and veg.

Would it be a good investment to bail out the makers of horse drawn buggies?

Paul I put a lot of trust in the average Australian.
And think while they are in control [Liberals] the Shadow Ministers are far from average.
All my ALP voting life I have known this truth.
Blue collar workers and common every day Labourers are just as likely to vote Liberal as Labor.
And we should be grateful, constant insulting interventions in to their wages and work conditions, by their Liberal Governments, sends them back to Labor, if only for one term.
Cutting wages to get the economy moving just will not work and insults the already battling workers, it is price fixing without high end profit control.
Notice and tell me why if you can, these folk rarely if ever call for cuts to heads of firms earning many times more money in a year than some workers earn in a lifetime.
Be at ease, one term Tony is working for us.
Good win in Griffith tomorrow

Shadow Ministers are far from average.

Thank you Belly.

That you are predicting TA remaining for 1 term makes me sure that he is in for at least 2.

If SPC borrowed $50,000,000 from the banks, the banks would make sure
SPC sorted out the problems.
They would apply much stronger discipline than any government would.

Hi there BANJO...

I'm sorry for my delay in responding to your thread ? I do thoroughly agree with you. Reducing tariffs proved very unwise in my book. For whatever reason, Oz manufacturing does need some legitimate protective measures, particularly as it's very difficult to sustain an equitable industry, when up against almost slave labour ?

Your illustration of the downfall of Letona Canned Fruits was a good example of little or no protection. We have an abundance of every type of fruit and vegetable produce. Sufficient, so it would seem to feed the entire Asian region. Then why have we not exploited this burgeoning asset ? How many times have we heard politicians from both sides, exclaim Australia could be the food bowl of the entire world !

Dear paul1405,

Thank you very much for the link.

Perhaps you might persuade Shadowminister to read it as he seems thoroughly out of the loop as usual.

The part I found interesting was the 'wet area allowance' specifically highlighted by Abbott as one of the reasons for the company struggling.

I quote from the agreement;

53.37 WET PLACE ALLOWANCE

3.37.1 An employee (other than a cleaner of machinery, equipment, vats and the like) working in
any place where the employee's clothing or footwear becomes wet shall be paid 58 cents per
hour extra, such extra rate to continue for all time the employee is required to work in wet
clothing or footwear.

3.37.2 Provided that such extra rate shall not be payable to an employee who is provided by the
employer with suitable and effective protective clothing and/or footwear. All protective
footwear supplied to an employee under this sub clause shall, if previously worn by another
person, be properly sterilised before being issued to that employee.

End quote.

To me this was just a way providing the company with the incentive to provide adequate protective gear. Keep in mind some of these employees are moving to and from some very cold conditions, some down to -15C. To be doing so with saturated footwear or clothing would most certainly been a Health and Safety issue. It seemed to have worked since the company did not need to pay a single cent of 'wet allowance' money in 2013.

So in highlighting this as a factor Abbott was lying I'm afraid.

o sung wu,
Mountain Maid is another company, now gone and did not Edgell close a plant somewhere near Orange, NSW. There have been so many Aussie companies go by the board it is hard to recall them all. There is ample film of growers dozing trees and ploughing in crops, enough to make a man cry over the waste.

The reason, we are bloody dills, that is why and we allow stupid politicians to get away with short sightedness.

After being caught short in two world wars you would think we should know better. What would happen if a regional conflict cut many shipping lanes? I doubt if any beaurocracy has any contingency plans.

o sung wu, "How many times have we heard politicians from both sides, exclaim Australia could be the food bowl of the entire world!"

What they actually mean is that Australian farming land will be sold off to all and sundry to become their food fowl.

Smarter governments would be promoting joint leasehold investment that develops the abundant marginal lands and desert.

But no, those dumb Aussies - reputably long in the legs and thick in the head - are falling over themselves to give away their prime agricultural land and water rights. Labor's ship of fools, the Gillard/Greens government, sold the massive Cubbie Station with its generous water rights to a Chinese government controlled consortium,

<Cubbie station goes to China for 'a steal'

AUSTRALIA'S most valuable farm, Cubbie station, has become majority foreign-owned as its former chairman questioned whether the vast cotton growing concern was a "steal" for Chinese investors.

The sale, reportedly for about $240 million, settled last night, ending years of controversy over the fate of the irrigation operation that straddles the headwaters of the Murray-Darling river system in southwest Queensland.

A spokesman for new owners CS Agriculture, a consortium bankrolled mainly by Chinese textile-maker Shandong RuYi, confirmed the sale had gone through on the eve of Australia Day.
...
Outgoing Cubbie chairman and former Queensland treasurer Keith De Lacy said the operation had turned the corner when a 12-year drought broke soon after voluntary administrators were called in in 2009. At the time, the business had debts of about $320m.

By 2010-11, the 96,000ha farm was producing cotton and cotton seed that earned $80m before interest and tax.

"If they got it for $240m, they have got a steal, considering it's an enterprise that is capable of producing a gross profit of $80m a year," Mr De Lacy told The Weekend Australian.>
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/cubbie-goes-to-china-for-a-steal/story-e6frg8zx-1226562159297#

Good afternoon to you (again) BANJO...

You know my friend, that's the part that really, really makes me angry. Purposely and intentionally destroying all these mature fruit trees, for no other reason, they're considered redundant ? To my small brain, that is criminal !

I'm no arboriculturist but I couldn't imagine for a moment that you plant a fruit tree today, tomorrow your harvest it's yield ? Whoever was responsible for causing all these fruit trees destroyed, purely because the fruit couldn't be used or utilised, should be consigned to oblivion !

Thank you BANJO for highlighting these disgusting events, events that we, us Aussies, should be damned well ashamed of ourselves, for the wanton destruction of mature fruit trees. I have always realised we were an idiot country...No, I'll reword that, we're LED by idiots, now we have, proof positive of it !

o sung wu,

Speaking as someone from a farming background and my family still have interests, without income the farmers cannot afford to maintain the trees which would quickly become reservoirs of disease, affecting other farms. Hopefully the land can be put to some other use.

However the risk is always borne by the farmer. While keyboard experts on farming like AWU's boss Peter Howes get paid anyhow and have comfortable superannuation waiting. Howes has said that family farms are 'outdated'.

Hi there ONTHEBEACH...

Is there no limit to their stupidity ? It's been my understanding that Cubbie Station was a vital water resource for the entire region ?
Notwithstanding, it had accumulated debts in excessive of $320 million the Company should have remained in Australia hands at all costs.

If the Chinese or any other peaceful nation, wish to purchase 100,000 hectares of purely desert country for the purpose of turning it into profitable and arable land, that's fine. But Cubbie ? Seems those in Canberra are so insulated, so nonchalant, so apathetic to what's going on, it's so annoying. Actually, it's absolutely infuriating !

Perhaps we should simply affix a sign, to the first counter seen, by the thongs of international passengers, as they arrive at our International Airports, reading; 'For Sale' 10% Deposit, best offer accepted ?

All the while our country is slowly suffocating, due to this endless bungling and misfeasance by our politicians ! Yet most of these sloth like creatures, laughingly calling themselves 'statesmen', quietly luxuriate in their decorated, panelled offices. Far away from all the troubles, dreaming of their own prodigious pensions and their many incalculable benefits, so befitting their 'station' in public life ?

No surprises here - Abbott has a long history of lying and there will be plenty more to come.

Even during his election campaign he said was going to spend his first week as PM on aboriginal land and his own campaign policy "pamphlet" said that they supported the vehicle industry and that there would be no cuts - and so on.

Hockey said that sending away unaccompanied refugee children would happen "over his dead body" but of course that was said when he was in opposition. Despite his protestations about "the age of entitlement" being over, his snout is still deep in the trough when it comes to travelling to inspect his rural investment property at our expense.

I'm enjoying the spectacle of all the frothing-at-the-mouth anti-ALP zealots now frantically trying to defend their own inept messiah and his team of clowns.

Not to be unexpected, the cries from the boardroom gluttons ably supported by their political acolytes in the shape of Abbott and Hockey. "Workers are too well off!"
I hear the shrill cry of my fellow poster Shadow Minister "While the wages are not hugely significantly higher than award, the 'conditions'" Its those dreaded 'conditions'!
I ask what award? certainly not the "Boardroom Gluttons Award" where pay packets running into the millions is the order of the day! The average CEO in all Australian businesses is now pocketing $1.9 million pa (2012) and those lucky enough to have their snouts in the trough at one of the top 100 companies are pocketing an average $4.7 million (2012). With the 'top gun' racking in a cool $21 million. SM are these pay rates with or without those dreaded 'conditions'?
It should be noted that "Award" rates of pay and associated 'conditions' are to be the MINIMUM legally allowed, as determined by an independent arbitrator. Fortunately for workers these minimums are not being determined at the moment by the likes of Abbott and Hockey...but give them time.

The problem with left whingers is that they deliberately misinterpret what Abbott says, and then call him a liar when he does what he says but not what the idiot left whingers thinks he said.

A case in point is a left whinger says he promised there would be no cuts to the vehicle manufacturers. And that's exactly what he did. What the whinger considered a cut was not meeting Labor's promise for an extra hand out of $500m. So Abbott is not the liar, the whinger is.

Another hypocritical attack by the left whingers is the attack on CEOs of companies whose guidance has made them profitable, yet remain silent on actors and sportsmen who often get far more.

The reality is that you pay for talent, and not all people are made equal. If you hire a twit as a CEO you will go bankrupt.

I again issue the challenge tell us you Liberal/conservative voters of the wrongs on your side.
Getting zero answers for over 8 years to my challenge is in fact telling me much about you.

Hi ONTHEBEACH...

Sorry, it's clear that I'm a 'city slicker' with my comments of total condemnation for those who remove the fruit trees...? I guess any orchardist has to regularly rotate his orchard ? Plant new ones, remove older stock ? Sorry ONTHEBEACH of these matters I'm obviously quite ignorant. Nevertheless, your point is well made.

As it seems Liberal/National/Conservative voters are unaware of any wrong in their team my link may be of use.
Had Shaw been part of my mob I would never stop launching in to the grub.
In those circumstances [he being Labor\ nor would the silent majority here.
Strange but true!
http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/rogue-mp-geoff-shaw-gets-his-marching-orders/story-fnii5sms-1226821020633

This age of entitlement meme is so out of date.
Who is he talking to?This is not the 1970s.

There is no free tertiary education, the dole is hard to get and so small its not worth the effort. The majority of the workforce is casualised on contracts, and certainly little security of tenure.

The public servant jobs were stripped a decade or two ago and replaced with egregiously expensive consultancies which are awarded by Byzantine methods.

Does anyone understand what he is talking about?

The only entitlements I am aware of are unionised construction workers on super large projects. But this is a small part of the labour force. The rest of the entitlements are in and around the corporate sphere. The supermarket cartel of Coles and Safeway springs to mind. But all sorts of tax deductions exist for those who least need them.

I believe the politicians themselves retain more entitlements then anyone would dare dream. But of course we need those to attract the quality of talent - choke. To ensure that virtuous candidates are elected - choke - who will not year after year sell out the publics best interests to foreign interests, media tycoons, cartels and generally rape the citizenry - choke.

Entitlements! Indeed.

Sadly, the rhetoric Coming from this government is more absurd than even that of Gillard, Rudd, or Howard. The Jesuit has assented into power - expect us all to be flagellated for our sins.

Perhaps we spare a thought for those SPC workers whose 'generous conditions allow for a 5 minute extension on their break when the temperature exceeded 36C. Well it is over 40C there now and I will guarantee one thing, the CEO of CCA and Tony Abbott will not be doing a week end shift, will not be on any factory floor, and will not be suffering through that kind of heat for $50,000 PA.

What a bully Abbott continues to be.

o sung wu,

Yes, the problem is that the farmer has to maintain the trees which involves the fertilising, irrigation and spraying routine regardless of whetherthere is a market or not . In this case his produce is being refused. There is no market for him.

Without the care regime, the orchard degrades quickly, trees die and the farm will never return to economic production. It is presently 40C someone said. As well, his farm cannot be a reservoir of disease and pests for other farms.

The farmer can't afford to do any of that without income. He is between a rock and very hard place. Is is very upsetting to see all of his hard work and plans go down the tube. It is either clear and burn, or be up for more large bills (the bank wants its money) and have the government fruit inspectors breathing down his neck.

It takes years and a lot of investment to get an orchard up to production. Few can do it. The unions aren't going to volunteer to donate a little labor or the water to keep those trees alive.

You are one of the very few here who cares a hoot for the farmer and his family.

Hi there BELLY old friend...

As you well know, I'm a conservative, through and through. Look, I have to acknowledge Mr Abbott's performance has been disappointing since the election. I also realise the last six years of the Labour government, has brought about a substantial increase in our national debt. A debt the LNP wish to retire, ASAP.

I think we all accept, in order to reduce this debt, spending cuts must be made. Still in this isolated case, the relatively small injection of funds that SPC seek, an amount of circa $25 million, is not a lot of money in the scheme of things ?

What Messrs Abbott & Hockey are missing, by repudiating this small monetary request, purely on the basis the parent company Coca Cola, has made a considerable overall profit, doesn't mean Coke will standby SPC and put-up the money themselves.

They'll more than likely unceremoniously, cut SPC adrift and move on to their next positive acquisition ? Unfortunately, it's the entire industry, the growers, the cannery, the exporters, they'll all suffer, because of a very poor ill-informed decision by Messrs Abbott & Hockey, to save a few dollars. Have a look at some of ONTHEBEACH's threads, for the other recognised Canneries that have closed. We simply cannot afford to lose this industry !

This error, though not momentous in itself, nevertheless to the electorate at large, makes the government look complete fools and worse, perjurers ! By alleging the handful of workers at SPC are receiving 'Rolls Royce' benefits, nearly commensurate with that of politicians themselves. And that will never do !

Wake up LNP, before you're thrown out of office for good !

Hi again ONTHEBEACH...

I honestly believe whatever industrial ills that negatively impact upon this once great country, it will be the farmer alone, who will actually rescue us. Everybody, around the world needs food and clothing merely to survive. Sure, our mining industry is important but once we've exhausted our mineral resources, or more importantly, when other nations start to exploit their own mineral resources, it'll be the farmer who'll be our saviour !

Russia, South America, the African Continent and more, all are extremely rich in minerals. So in short time, they'll no longer need Aussie minerals, they'll mine their own. And if we're very smart, we'll be the one's to feed 'em all ! So yes, ONTHEBEACH we must assist, aid and protect, in everyway possible, our rural producers at all costs ! If not, we'll be dependent always, on others.

o sung wo mate I understand your politics and tell you most Liberal voters are just like you, good people.
I noted your commentson my return took on board that Iagreed with and dumped the rest, not much.
I bring concerns at the polling booth or pre polling, to my own side.
See my first act is to introduce myself to all other partys folk and commit to a happy peaceful day.
I like to remind them in the end we are all Australians and what ever the result we will be on Sunday.
Mate I do get crank, you just must see a few of the retorts are not fair.
But such is life and we if we take for granted the wrongs in our team must take ownership of the decent that surely follows.
Tony Abbott is not Satan not evil but gee he is not a leader in time it is my view his team, not mine will remove him.
The question is am I entitled to hold such views.
Sadly o sung wo NO in the eyes of a few.
And? the polls seem to be welcome when against Labor, and wrong when against Tony.

Hi there BELLY old chap...

I agree with you, absolutely ! I believe most politicians (on all sides of politics) endeavour to do their best, but sometimes fall short. I don't care particularly, what their individual policies are, as long as what they do, is both ethical and for the overall amelioration for our Country.

I have noticed a few contributors herein, occasionally do try to bait you BELLY, from time to time. The best thing is ignore them, if possible. Failing that, try to reply in a courteous manner.

Myself, if someone has a go at me, I tend to respond with derision. And in so doing I don't win too many friends ? Probably NOT the best approach for handling those herein, who seek to be sarcastic and contemptuous of anything you may say ? Anyway BELLY old chap, it's all just a big game really ! Simply enjoy it ?

Unfortunately, so many write it off as 'just a game'; the 'game' of politics, of media 'revelations' and headlining, of public media (internet/mobile) spoofing, trolling or conceited abuse, or the life game of one-up-man-ship (the bigger house, the faster car, the Rolex, diamonds, bling and Gucci), of business vs the environment, the 'pushing' of share-price in pursuit of indecent mega-salaries and bonuses, the dog-eat-dog quest to squeeze-out the little guy to maximise market share and attain the pinnacle of price-maker rather than price-taker, the 'Get-ups' and protests written-off as delusional, counterproductive and infantile (or just annoying), the 'them' vs 'us' ideological bias, the contest of growth vs sustainability and the chasing of 'profit' irrespective of collateral consequences, or the urge to propagate one's genes irrespective of the social or global consequences of population escalation, the 'game' of IR, or the question of what is 'too big to fail' or 'too small to save'.

A complex life, but definitely not a game.

What can we expect of our political governors when it comes to the public and national interest - in response to SPCA or to the impact of our escalating drought, to free-trade vs protection of local business and jobs, to national debt vs conditions, welfare safety-net, infrastructure demands and shrinking industrial capacity? We expect a balanced response to such myriad demands, an impartial, honest, humanitarian and 'responsible' response.
We should expect a similar response from ourselves - with bias and vested-interest left at the door - in our assessment, and in our expectations of our governors.

Ideals, not ideology.

How to assess priorities?

An example: It came to my notice that, due to the drought, a cattle farmer sent his stock to the local sale against advice - because he no longer had feed for them, had no reserves to buy-in feed, and escalating debts. The stock failed to sell - not even a bid. He took the stock home, shot them, and then, shot himself.
I understand this example is only one of five - so far.
This speaks of desperation - for the stock, and for the farmers and their families - a desperation far exceeding anything most of us will experience, and which should make all union hacks or business and political overseers pushing a vested barrow or using stand-over tactics feel ashamed, and cause all of us to review what is really important.

Bias is unhelpful and unwanted; let's try walking in each others shoes before casting judgement - and gear our efforts to ensuring we may expect no less from all those who can make a difference.

It would be valuable on any measure to save SPCA, but making it a political or IR 'football' can only cloud any meaningful assessment of viable options - public or private.
The national interest is not well served by focusing on 'personalities' or on 'agenda', when we should be focusing on means, priorities, and opportunity.

Well those two posts salty have given a new reason to save the last cannery!
Not that I was unaware but your reminder is worth our thoughts.
Australia NEEDS a manufacturing industry and its farm produce.
Conservative governments once supported both.
A linked action is here, Victoria is not far from an election.
One that Labor looks more than likely to win.
By then it will have lost Tasmania[maybe for 20 years plus or minus a few] and South Australia,to win either would be unheard of in current polling.
Premier of Victorian could have won Novembers election just a week ago, by funding SPC.
We are not a penniless country yes we are in debt,as is every western country except Germany.
But the way to get back in the black is not by hurting our farmers, the victims in this matter.
I remember and question ,Abbott,s promises and support for manufacturing during his year long factory door parade what else has this man forgotten?

Hi there SALTPETRE...

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for a moment, either our political system or our politicians, were simply engaged in a 'big game' ? I was merely referring to our various points of discussion, on this prestigious forum of ours (and Graham's), is just a 'big game', a diversion. Nothing else.

If we were to take anything really seriously that has been strenuously discussed or expressed on this Forum, we should perhaps, withdraw from any further input immediately ? Life has more than sufficient challenges and impositions that really do need our attention, Without adding any further, unnecessary complications ?

i feel much thE SAMEway..its getting too difficult..[ie just to get to this POST..page..i had to unplug my mouse 4 times]..AND return the lower case key ..8 times to just POST THIS one sentance.

regardless..i just watched the farmers lobby hour/repeated monday]
and saw this poor hard up farmer..[with at least 100 sleek black healthy/beasts..[he owns two 'farms'..has 'had' tosell off all but hid 'breeding stock'

he hasnt had to apply for assistance to feed them[yet]..but did last-time..we saw some fences..and recall we builT THEM..with other grants..plus we saw some iRRAGATION WATER PIPING..thanks be to more govt handouts

i seen other times 3 rd generation/whiners..[once that got huge cuntry size estates for pennies on the dollar or by govt grants

i also noted thE PRESENTER..at the end..of the piece..with behind her a lush crop..OF tall green grass[PLUS a full dam]..on some other farm/getting tax free tax deductible machines/fuel fencing and feed transport..poor them

also i heard barnibaby..tell of a poor fella..hIRED A TRUCK..totake his hundreds of BEASTS..of his over stoCKED..land..to market[but they wernt fit enough to transport..so he shot them..then himself..[and i thought huh?

salty tolD ME OF ANOTHer..are these factoids .or what?

ifuirther thougHT..he could buy bullets
could hire A TRUCK..and there is blarneby..telling me they cant get electicty bills paid[well we got the same issues..many shopkeepers went broke...see the shops empty in main street

thing id some have too much..they over stock..the land
knowing they got the muscle to get bailed out by the rest of us.

well we need use up our 'resources'..but they can KEEP their machines
but shopkeepers dont..but govt shouldnt be there for those whO NEVER LEARNED TO TAKE THE WIN..before the loss.

inverters often get back pennies in the dollar
so what cost OF production..how much is left..can they EVER..pay back.

THING IS ..no..they gET TAX FREE RIDES
ever expanding..till the day they went bust leaving the banks [IE US SAVERS]..with pennies on the dollar..

ok your bust..please LEAVE...any future farming must HAVE A BOND..lower..stocking rates for the damages your greed set up.

NEXT COMES THe dust bowls.

Me old mate o sung wu, I wasn't having a go at you, and tend to agree with you that this forum probably shouldn't generally be taken too seriously - though quite a few of us have erred in that regard from time to time, and on occasion got our fingers (or ears) burned in consequence.

However, I usually don't treat it as only 'just a game', and generally hope for some considered and lively debate of the actual issues.
But, I have no problem with what you posted, particularly taking account of the context of your reply to Belly.
Certainly it would take much from the pleasure of OLO if we were all overly serious all of the time.

It's just that your mention of our being involved in a 'game' set me thinking about a range of other more serious things which appear to be treated as a game. We have seen some of this in the recent Federal Senate elections - games, and some chicanery, I suspect.
Some here on OLO also point the finger at various politicians with more than a little derision (much of it largely without foundation - but that reality does nothing to deter the barbs), and potentially inferring that politics may be the 'ultimate' game.

My posts were actually aimed to focus attention on what really matters, in the broader context, and how we might possibly more effectively address and evaluate such important issues, by divesting ourselves of the limitations of our personal and political bias.
I suspect I was very much overly optimistic; it's no easy thing to be totally objective, about anything, let alone about politics, IR, the environment, or policies, bureaucracy, budgets, and the economy.

Ideals, in preference to ideology, appears rather a big ask, and possibly a bridge too far - at least for some.
(But then, we're only human.)

Good afternoon to you SALTPETRE...

Your last thread was perfect ! You enunciated precisely your intent, your objectives and your overall aims. Moreover, not only for this precious country, our political system, and our elected political representatives. Last but not least, this acclaimed Forum of ours, and Graham's of course !

You write so very clearly, therefore it's a pity some of the other contributors don't follow your exercise in clarity, as a fine example of how to write. It would make it so much easier for us all to follow exactly what they intend to convey. I for one really appreciate it, SALTPETRE, thank you.

I have had the reason to speak with a couple of people who I each sold a business to a number of years back. Both are now really struggling. What they have directly put it down to is people being reluctant to spend due to job uncertainty and this is intuitively true. If you were an SPC, Ford, Toyota, Alcoa or Holden worker, knowing your job would not be there in a few years, you would be watching every penny, either saving it or throwing it at your mortgage.

Both of them have tightened their wages bill and are contemplating further cuts.

So it will be instructive to see what will happen with the unemployment figures that come out on Thursday. The figure is currently at 5.8% with some saying it will stay the same. My bet is it has a good chance of hitting 6.

Both had indicated the hope for a lift with the election of the coalition government. That they are now experiencing the opposite has them rethinking their support. They will ride it out if Abbott can explain what he intends to do to turn things around but at the moment he has given them nothing.

I think people tend to dramatically underestimate the damage job insecurity can do to an economy. We could be in for a very bumpy ride.

I've just heard that Toyota has decided to 'tear the blanket' with it's Australian Vehicle assembly operations in c.2016/7 ? It would seem now, all that capitol government/s have given these last remaining Motor Vehicle duopolies were just wasted ?

But I do think that SPC (Coca Cola) were/are a special case. Similar to our vast mineral resources, our agricultural assets are just as important as our mining industry is.

Surely then, an injection of twenty five million dollars in order to upgrade their plant and equipment is not too much to ask ? It's my understanding, SPC are a viable and productive company, but need this modest assistance in order to upgrade vital plant and equipment. Why not approve this small injection of funds, for this worthy purpose ?

Don't worry about Abbott, Hockey and Co telling "porkies" now. If as some are predicting we are heading for an economic downturn, with rising unemployment, business failures, the economy slowing etc. Australia will then learn the hard way how clueless this government is. With their typical conservative philosophy, the mantra will be "batten down the hatches and we'll ride our the storm." In the past conservatives have taken this position when confronted with a declining economy, and failed, and failed badly. Soon the Australian population will begin to realise that these so called economic gurus are in fact clueless imbeciles with not the slightest understanding of what to do in tough economic times. Abbott is already starting to exhibit these worrying traits.

Hockey yesterday told a miss truth, or did he?
Well he quoted a man who told us today Hockey claim is un true is that a lie?

Nah! Belly, Hockey is part of the 'tag team'. Abbott blames the worker, tips off to Hockey, and then Hockey blames the worker! Now when Murdoch takes over the ABC you wont be getting this kind of commie rubbish;

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-12/hockey-toyota-union-conditions-workers-cars-manufacturing/5254334

I think it was Howard who said something like "It was a non core lie."

All too true Paul.
However what truly stuns me is both think they have a mandate to do just about anything!
It is Labors to take now.
So every day must see us closer to what voters want, and further away from policy,s that harm us.
There is the very heart of politics numbers.
We must and hopefully will win over those who did not vote for us.

"We must and hopefully will win over those who did not vote for us."

Belly that is indeed the problem. I argue this with others within my own party at times. The trick is developing "acceptable policy" without abounding ones principles, a tricky thing to achieve. I don't deny pragmatism has its place, but should not be confused with popularism, Simply trying to win power for powers sake. Getting the mix right is the trick. The Labor Party is committed to being a progressive party with positive policies, where as the conservatives very much embrace a negative philosophy, which at the end of the day is relatively easy, its more or less a case of do nothing with them.
I look at the problems facing us today, and many of them can be traced back to conservative governments of the past, some of them Labor governments, taking the soft options.
The car industry is a classic example of doing it the easy way. Post WWII, let the multinationals in, they set it up under very generous terms, they run it, and they make all the decisions, now where does that leave us, sure in times past we gained a few jobs, but little else. Mining is in the same situation, as is most Australian industry. When the faceless men in the boardrooms of New York or where ever make a decision, Australia has no say what so ever and that is sad, some of the blame lays with past governments failing to act at critical times in our history.

paul/quote..<<..When the faceless men in the boardrooms of New York or where ever make a decision, Australia has no say what so ever and that is sad, some of the blame lays with past governments failing to act at critical times in our history>>

yes the many treaties..automatically become laW
BUT GOVT cant bind us intO commerce..[WITHOUT INFORMED CONCENT]...yet has..IT GAVE AWAY THE FEDERAL RESERVE..OUR BANKS..our rOADS bridges..our assets and services..

then..took over the medIA unions parties..every thing that would reveal the murder [death]..of the concept of service...to A COMMON WEALTH..[IE US/THE PEOPLE/Lands culture..SEEKING ONLY..TO LIVE under just law.

BUT..we let lawyers give life to dead cooperate fictions called persons..[UNDER THE ACT]..IE THE dead..who have subverted the living into Bonded SERVICE TO DEAD legal FICTIONS.

THING IS..govt.union/party..arnt there for you
nor govt nor bankers nor QUEENS NOR CROWN..[THEY..allWAYS LETS us down/once we 'trust them/unthinkingly'..

BUT OTHERS CON-TROLL/LOBBY THEM.
NEXT THEY CAN DO NO WRONG/..in loyalist eYES.

On Tuesday I made a prediction on this thread about today's unemployment figures;

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6226#182443

“So it will be instructive to see what will happen with the unemployment figures that come out on Thursday. The figure is currently at 5.8% with some saying it will stay the same. My bet is it has a good chance of hitting 6.”

Well today the figures are out and yes they did indeed hit 6%.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-13/january-employment-figures-bureau-of-statistics/5257326

I would like to reiterated the following point;

“I think people tend to dramatically underestimate the damage job insecurity can do to an economy. We could be in for a very bumpy ride.”

I know higher unemployment and less job security is good for businesses through the strength in negotiating lowering wages and conditions, but at what cost. I'm wondering if Abbott and Co have a figure in mind. Probably.

But I am interested to hear what the Abbott supporters here think the figure will ultimately be once the free market ideologues get finished with our manufacturing sector.

And what figure would you lot deem acceptable. Is 7% okay? 8? 9? At what point will even you guys, if ever, say enough is enough?

Doesn't matter, it is all irrelevant.
There are bigger fish to fry.
It is not important.

Another example of worrying about the wrong problem.

SR,

Since the RBA put out a report in August predicting that the downturn in the economy would lead to increased unemployment to over 6%, and Labor and the greens have blocked all saving measures, even those they promised in the election, there is no reason to believe that this is not going to happen.

ITS GLOBAL
http://216.240.133.177/archives32/Rivero/2014/02/Rivero_2_021114_140000.mp3

EXTRACTED
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6230&page=0

The real values of the private
bankers and the City of London exposed for all to see.
Whilst hundreds of thousands of British soldiers were dying
on the killing fields of Flanders and elsewhere doing what
they saw as their patriotic duty, British bankers, safely out of
danger and not sharing the appalling conditions on the Western
Front, were only interested in one thing – how to make obscene
profits from Britain’s desperate efforts to win the war.

To say that the private bankers and the City of London have
the morals of sewer rats is to be extremely unkind to our little
rodent friends. But this is the clincher. As a direct result of
the greed and treason of the British private bankers IS REVEALED

edited

hyperinflation
spiralled out of control and a loaf of bread was
bought with a barrow load of almost worthless paper money.
To this I just say look again at what actually happened in Germany
at that time.

It was not the Weimar’s treasury but it was
the privately controlled central bank, the Reichsbank, who
was printing the money, coupled with the extreme actions of
currency speculators and foreign investors that caused all of
the problems.

Take a look at these two links:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-weimar-hyperinflation-could-it-happen-again/13673
http://www.freestatevoice.com.au/politics/item/1064-how-hitler-defied-the-bankers
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6207&page=0

Dear Shadow Minister,

You say;

“Since the RBA put out a report in August predicting that the downturn in the economy would lead to increased unemployment to over 6%”

Well mate I have gone through the RBA report for August and it seems there was no mention of a 6% figure. Perhaps you read it somewhere else if so are you able to tell me where?

Both ABC Lateline and Channel 10 referred to the figure as the top end of expectations.

6% is no prediction, it is reality. Who could doubt the 'fact checked' ABC?

<Unemployment jumps to 6 per cent for first time in a decade
By business reporter Michael Janda

Updated Thu 13 Feb 2014, 4:43pm AEDT

Australia's unemployment rate has jumped to 6 per cent for the first time in more than a decade.

The Bureau of Statistics estimates that 3,700 jobs were lost in January, pushing the unemployment rate from 5.8 up to 6 per cent - the first time it has reached that level since July 2003.>
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-13/january-employment-figures-bureau-of-statistics/5257326

SteeleRedux, You have to realise SM is our resident "Porky" teller. I recently called him on the huge amount of material he posts directly from the Murdoch fish wrapper 'The Sydney Daily Telegraph'. The poor chap is in denial, called my illiterate, me's told hym me was very good edgeumacated and one heck of a oog spella fella... and as for grammar, me preferred pumpkins!
As for unemployment the Mad Monk and Co have all the answers, at this very moment Tony is taking action on our behalf, he is offering up prayers and incantations to St Bartholomew the Anointed One, the patron saint of Cobblers, to save your job! Have confidence my son, with the powers of St Bartholomew behind the Coalition we can't fail.

ACTUALLY PAUl..<<.The poor chap is in denial, called my illiterate, me's told hym me was very good edgeumacated and one heck of a oog spella fella... and as for grammar, me preferred pumpkins!>.

THIS ACTS LIKE A CAPITCHA*
SEE computers..cant make sense of it*
thus need to call in the 'human controller..[con-troll-er]

do you paul/recall..earlier in the computer age
when we actually talked to computers..who 'seemed'..to be listening..by virtue..of 'key words'..[see sm..is the super fersion..of that[if you like the pre computer version OF IT..was pary loyalists/unionists commiES STATISTS ROYALISTS..and all in between[including me a dopper/smoker greenie hippy.

anyhow what im trying to say
all them conflicts of real [key-wordss]..confounds the program
enSURE..that the human running 'the auto reply troll bots'..stays in his job

the system loves auto-motons..but computer troll programing
cant do capicha..yet we huh?-mans can nutt it out[COMPUTERS CAN GUESS]..BUT WE HUMANS WILL KNow*..the truth..and this shall set us free.

human to humane..means we living beings..dont play it like a..[dead]..robot...must..thus..we can talk to the management.. REAL/LIVING THINKING/BEINGS../like sm BELLY and you.

WE CAN FIGURE THINGS OUT ME CHINA PLATE
BUT THINGS ARE BROKE..GLOBALLY..some thing to masticate...or translaTE..TO THOSE WHO MAY RELATE.

SR,

My apologies, it was the treasury report of August 2013, predicting unemployment going to 6.25%. "Unemployment rate (2013-14) 6 1/4%" based on the economic outlook pre election. Feel free to look it up.

As labor has blocked most spending changes, there is no reason to expect any change.

Paul,

Actually I caught you out lying several times. You tried to show that what I said was false and failed completely.

So Paul you are the King of porkies.