Belly said;
We are seeing a world seemingly unable to fix its self and that may bring about your suggestion.

Whoops, just to make sure, no confusion; it is not my suggestion.
I just thought everyone should know to where some people are moving.
Frankly, when I find people like Holmgren getting that desperate that
they consider such actions, which would put many millions out of work,
it really worries me.

I suspect that his desperation is shared by many in the AGW proponents
movement and some demonstrations if not jumped on by police etc could
have started down the Crash on Demand path.

Individual, yes the waffle is pretty typical, but unless you wade
through it all you will miss thought trends.
I think Holmgren has actually said out loud what a lot of global
warmists are muttering about up till now.
What would be a concern is if he has hit a nerve and lit the fuse.

Dear Bazz,

Thanks for giving us the
opportunity to get to know a bit more about
Permaculture and David Holmgren and his ideas.

Other animals can sustain themselves directly from
the environment, for example, by grazing on vegetation,
or preying on other species. Human beings, however, rely
on tools for their subsistence, whether these are as
simple as a hunting knife or as complex as a modern
agricultural enterprise backed by fertilizers, combine
harvesters, irrigation networks, storage and
transportation facilities, and electric power. But this
difference between ourselves and other creatures can be
a deceptive one. In the modern industrialised world,
we often feel insulated from nature and confident that
our new technology can give us mastery over the natural
environment.

We forget all too easily that we too are animals, ultimately
as dependent on the environment for our survival as any
other species.

In pre-industrial societies people traditionally
treated nature with respect, considering themselves a part of,
rather than set apart from, the natural world. In industrialised
societies our attitude is different. Many of us consider
ourselves -
the lords of creation and see nature primarily as a resource
for exploitation. As our "needs" increase, our capacity
for exploitation expands. Many of us don't see the ravaging
of the environment as "ravaging" at all; it is "progress"
or "development." Many os us are so used to exploting
natural resources and dumping our waste products into the
environment that we frequently forget that resources are
limited and exhaustible and that pollution can disrupt the
ecological balance on which our survival depends.

Voices like those of David Holmgren and Tor Hundloe who
seek solutions to climate change, water scarcity, pollution,
and Third World poverty open up the world to anyone wanting to
better understand the disciplines we need to apply in the
21st century if true sustainability is to be achieved.
Unfortunately, however, many of us are not prepared to make
the required changes - and find the offered solutions far
too radical for our tastes. We prefer to continue doing
what we're doing. The future will take care of itself.

Bazz I understood it was not your idea.
Or that you support it, I saw you looking for answers and others thoughts.
I am pleased my view is shared because all too many put their mind in Angel gear and drift along with the crowd.
We as a nation must confront the truth!
Some will think I have gone stark raving mad.
Or turned Liberal, but not so.
We must confront our current welfare package and find ways to see every one contributes .
And we should consider too a way to preserve our country,s food supplies.
And a look over our shoulder at the days we did grow our own food in the back yard willcome one day

Or turned Liberal, but not so.
Belly,
That'll be the day alright, ha ha. Anyhow I think it is not too far off the mark to say that this has gone way beyond politics now & is heading toward do or die. Australia has the best chance of all countries to counter these forces & we can't afford to rely on our pollies be they Labor or Liberal or whatever. It is up to those of us who want to continue to live in an Australia so many fought for. It is up to us to prevent the greedy & soul-less from selling it & our freedom with it. There's no second guessing as to who the highest bidders are & what's in store for us if the good people do nothing.

I don't like this David Holmgren because he speaks out of fear and hate.

The ideas of permaculture - simplicity, living on the land, an economy based on barter and gifts and not depending on technology and its constant barrage of entertainment, are indeed wonderful.

But as we want to move away from the modern world and its vanity, David reminds us that "In all traditional societies gifting increased the social status and often the real power and security of the giver", in other words, all for the wrong reasons, a 360-degree turn back to corporatism and government.

Moving in this direction should happen regardless of the state of the environment, very gradually, organically, each according to their particular capacity and circumstances: not out of pressure, but because this way of life is good and fulfilling by itself.

While an advocate of the permaculture system I think Holmgren goes too far. The world's economies are in the process of destroying themselves without the need for assistance. Greed eventually has consequences.

All anyone can do is to make their own way, choosing to live more in tune with the environment, growing their own food and fostering local communities to be more sustainable. Individuals together can often achieve more than governments who are strapped by a mindset of solving short term problems rather than long term vision.

I suspect factors will lead human beings to live more simply in the future because there will have to be adjustments to changing environments and a growing middle class in the developing world.

When there is more equity, spirallying population growth will probably sort itself out once education and a raised standard of living ensue. With that the fact is everyone will have to 'tread more lightly' as we cannot go on consuming resources in the same way forever.