Iraq back on the brink of civil war with jihadists laying siege to the west. We're talking Ramadi and Fallujah JUST outside Baghdad.

The west of Iraq is Syria. The freedom fighting FSA in Syria lost months ago due to lack of support, cohesiveness, and leadership. They were never going to win. What's left is mercenary jihadists being funnelled BY TURKEY into Syria's northern borders and the only thing holding them back from northern oil fields is Kurdish militia (read: farmers). They get that and they get some real funding with Turkey having a major debt owed to them.

Fundamental Sharia Islam is on the brink of owning the entire middle east. If they get Saudi Arabia - they placate jihadists with fighters and funding - the world is in a world of trouble ... not least of all, Israel.

Afghanistan will go too, but really that's only bad for the Afghani's as they're on the other side of Iran - short of Sharia having another foothold. This will give Pakistan and India something worry about other than each other. As a side note. Because the Australian government are kicking sand messing around with visa's promised to Afghan interpreters for the Aus Army during the conflict they are being hunted down and executed by the Taliban.

I'm curious why this isn't on our news.

The PC Monster is your answer STG and its good to see you active again.
To be frank my thoughts about the relidgion are well known and unchanged.

I am reminded by the British Empire and for that matter others who used the divide and conquer system to rule other peoples country,s.
Maybe the Saudis maybe America,but some one is dividing these country,s like never before.
Some one will rush in to print to remind me Sunni vs Shiite has seen deaths for 500 years.
I maintain the view any country,s so involved inn the God Myth they let religion drive the National agenda is bound to suffer,too that the suffering this time is promoted by yet unknown interference, I thing the Saudis have unclean hands .

Hi belly,

Yeah, it's been a while.

First off, it's not about faith or religion. It's about power and money. The faith thing stops at the jihadist fighter level. They attacked Latakia in Syria and cut babies from mothers wombs. They tied men to the ground and forced kids to hack their heads off with machete's. They burned children alive on fires. I can show you this. You don't want to see it. That is about fear. I personally think if you want to understand what's going on you have to look at the subject as an attempt at domination by a cohesive higher echelon of backers using blind faith ignorance as a tool against its own to deal its horrific deeds.

Back to the topic. What does the media have to gain by not informing you about these things?

Generally speaking..

The odd thing is, it was a basic fact right from the beginning that 'we' couldn't stay in those conflict zones for ever and that when we left it WOULD implode. They KNOW that destabilising Syria would result in civil war and best case scenario jihadists would run the country if Assad loses. The FSA would NEVER have beaten the Syrian armed forces. It seems 'we' are intentionally destabilising the middle east. Assad is a piece of work, but much of the country was stable. Why throw it into anarchy? It doesn't make sense.

http://rss.infowars.com/20140102_Thu_Alex.mp3 http://rss.infowars.com/20140101_Wed_Alex.mp3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbG3G1EPPUI http://whatreallyhappened.com/ http://unveilingthetruth.com/ http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2014/01/02/401068-pope-needs-to-condemn-us-warmongering/

lol You're STILL posting links. Make a coherent argument. I won't click links.

Hi StG,

The ME has always been a source of tragedy and so it continues. The changes for the worse we are now seeing are I think, recognition that the entire geo-politics of this region have changed.

IMHO, the intervention in the ME by the “Coalition of the Willing” was strategic and not tactical. By that I mean the western developed nations were dependent upon ME stability to keep oil supply lines flowing. They had to delay the consolidation by radicals until such times as energy security alternatives could be brought on stream.

The US now enjoys surplus crude and coal to sell and seems likely to exceed Saudi crude oil production by 2018. Since then the North Dakota field has been also estimated as the biggest oil find in 50 years, 85% of production is crude and 15% is gas. The USA already enjoys 60% lower energy costs that the EU and the UK has issued 176 Fracking licenses in the last month.

Russia and China have both signed to explore Pre-Salt off-shore reserves with South American Nations. In addition, 21% of all fossil fuel mergers and acquisitions internationally in the nine months to October 2013 were by China.

As the shackles of CAGW are cast off, the developed world has gone fossil fuel berserk. Germany has already increased coal consumption by 17% p a, and announced 9 new coal fired power stations, three of which will burn Lignite!

This in my view signals that the ME has already lost its tactical energy advantage and all the signs are that the West can now disengage at will. Tragically this is likely to see the ME descend into anarchy with absolutely no hope of western intervention.

There are now very few issues in the ME that the west will engage in, economically, militarily or in terms of social justice and equity,

Without western support and the evolving multi-sectarian conflicts, I think the western strategy will be restricted to containment.

And what have we done spindoc, we have introduced a 'let's save the world' huge carbon tax.

What a joke!

Thanks Spindoc,

Appreciate your thoughts and makes sense.

yes 9 % huge. The alternatives are not worth anything so best keep what we have. Abbott and his band of noalition nohopers, have no alternative at all. it's only Abbott's big mouth that wants to get rid of the carbon tax. Like all the other promises he made, it was all a con. Pledges in blood Etc:

Hi 579,

You are clearly very upset about many things, you want to keep the CO2 Tax and presumably the 10% we would have had to send to the UN coffers. You don’t like Tony Abbott but fail to mention that the LNP was elected by landslide off the back of the lowest ALP vote on record.

It seems clear to me that the government will dismantle everything to do with CAGW, that includes the tax, also the RET, all the associated government bodies, cut CAGW grant funding to universities and researchers, slash public funding of activist NGO’s, shred the ALP and Trade union movements by exposing their malignancy through a Royal Commission, re-engineer the ABC by changing their business model, cut “pipeline” expenditure and restore the surplus as soon as possible.

These things obviously terrify you and make you very angry. If it helps you can call the ALP/Greens supporters help line and follow the prompts below.

If you are obsessive compulsive – Press “1” repeatedly

If you are co-dependent - ask someone to press “2” for you

If you have multiple personalities – Press 3, 4, 5 and 6

If paranoid – we know where you are and what you want, stay on the line and we will trace your call.

If you are delusional – press “7” and you will be transferred to the “Mother Ship”

If you are schizophrenic – listen very carefully and a small voice will tell you what number to press.

If you are depressive – It doesn’t matter what key you press, no one will answer you.

If you are dyslexic – press 69,69,69,69.

If you have a nervous disorder – please fidget with the “#” key until you hear the “Beep”, after the “Beep” please wait for the “Beep”

If you have short term memory loss – please try again later.

If you have low self esteem – please hang up now because all our operators are too busy to take your call.

Hope this is of assistance

StG,
The middle East is just one of the areas being subjected to Jihad, WWIII is already underway if you consider that the Jihad also extends over much of Africa, Central Asia-Russia, Thailand, Burma,Malyasia, Indonesia and the Phillipines. The crisis caused by Islamic aggression in Africa alone has the potential to eclipse WW2 in terms of casualties and savagery, that's if NATO stays out of it, if they back one side or another it could easily result in slaughter on a scale never seen before.

Rectub this thread is not about carbon tax such an early move away from subject is uncalled for unrelated and of no use here that post.
STG I know these things are taking place but happen to think it is very much the religion that makes it happen.
And if Saudis and America are not involved who is?
Some one is seeking power, and just maybe looking to turn International terrorism in on its self.
I hold the belief mixed with the hate and lack of true education this part of the world, and this religion will force a war on the world.
Why is the press not telling us, you would think I have swapped minds with Arjay if I told you.
No way around it some one is intent on power here and maybe control of more than one middle eastern country.

< If you are co-dependent - ask someone to press “2” for you >

LOL! I bet that button needs frequent replacement going by the amount of them in this forum ;~)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4454202,00.html

#
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StG

its largely not making news because most journalist are secular humanist who are more concerned with ' gay ' marriage, the gw fantasy and ensuring that anything that exposes their flawed world view (that is Christianity) is demonised. Look at the way most journalist hate Israel. That speaks a thousand words. Thankfully it has been foretold that these things would take place for anyone with an ear to hear.

Thanks guys for the interesting read - excluding a couple of odd ones. Appreciate the input.

12 years of war, 1.5 trillion dollars, innumerable deaths and all for what?
Iraq is a festering boil of sectarian violence soon to be full blown civil war.
The Taliban will soon be back in power in Afghanistan.
The whole Middle East is imploding. Syria, Sudan, Egypt, Lybia etc etc.

Howard, Bush, Blair et al = War Criminals!

We told you so!

mikk

don't forget Rudd, Gillard and Obama. They all carried it on.

How can you pick someone who's gleaned most of their "knowledge" of world affairs from comic books?

One clue is they will think that Sunni V Shia violence only arose as a result of Western involvement in Iraq, so they will say things like this:
"Iraq is a festering boil of sectarian violence soon to be full blown civil war...(thanks to) Howard, Bush, Blair et al = War Criminals!

Or this, perhaps:
"The whole Middle East is imploding. Syria, Sudan, Egypt, Lybia etc etc...(thanks to)Howard, Bush, Blair et al = War Criminals!

And they have a point. Things were much *quieter* under Saddam, He simply shot anyone who disrupted his *peace* and buried their bodies in the desert --so one didn't get daily front page coverage in The Guardian or on the ABC.

All the little Guardian readers and ABC listeners join in now
(after three) 1,2,3:

Golden slumbers kiss your eyes,
Smiles await you when you rise.
Sleep,
Pretty baby,
Do not cry,
And I will sing a lullaby.

Cantor Seeks New House Resolution to Kill Iran Talks
. http://news.antiwar.com/2014/01/03/cantor-seeks-new-house-resolution-to-kill-iran-talks/

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R – VA) expressed annoyance that his attempt at a resolution to derail Iran diplomacy failed last year, and announced today his intention to introduce a new resolution as soon as possible with roughly the same contents.

Unlike Senate bails aimed at derailing the talks by imposing new sanctions on Iran, Cantor’s previous bill aimed to dictate the terms of an “acceptable” pact, mirroring Israeli demands which would make such an agreement virtually impossible to negotiate.

The bill aimed primarily to demand Iran forever be barred from any civilian enrichment of uranium, something Iran has repeatedly ruled out, and if passed would insist President Obama not negotiate any deal that didn’t include this demand.
. http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/47-us-senators-side-with-israel-on-iran/

A memo to House Majority Cantor: sir, for whom do you actually work these days? Is it for your "alleged" constituents? Or are you really working for the current Israeli government, in attempting to get this legislation passed?!?

This is a fair question, at a time when negotiations with Iran seem to be working, and the implementation of the P5+1 seems to be forthcoming shortly.

That you appearing to be hell-bent on preventing this from happening is...puzzling in the extreme, except for only one reasonable explanation.

I will grant that there are some areas where the interests of the US and Israel overlap: but destroying these negotiations, which will ultimately lead to war, is not one of them.

And how in the world, sir, can you possibly characterize the Iranian government's willingness to negotiate concerning their nuclear energy program as "aggression" ?!?!

. What the country of Israel wants to see happen here, instead of good faith negotiations working, is for the US government and military to attack Iran, and created a regime change which will be to Israel's liking.

Of course, this will mean that there will be yet more American blood and money sacrificed upon the altar of potential Israeli hegemony in the Middle East: and that, sir, is totally unacceptable to thinking Americans.

Your bio tells us that you and your wife have three children: they are all enlisted in the US military, are they not? No?

You know, sir, that is a real problem for Congress. Because it makes the sending of other peoples' children to war, to be killed or maimed for life, very academic and comfortable for all of you, and it shouldn't be.

IF there was a Constitutional Amendment requiring all running for national office to have at least one of their children enlisted, during their candidacy and term of service, and most likely to be fighting on the front lines, war would be a last resort choice for this government.

The US government has its reasons for wanting regime change in Iran, generally having to do with the Iranian government's refusal to sell all of its oil in US dollars. The Israeli government doesn't want the financial competition in non-war nuclear applications, such as the development and sale of medical isotopes.

. I would like to suggest that should the US military engage in this war, it may not go well at all for the US.

Both of us understand that the US military doesn't have the troop strength, the manufacturing, or the money to insure a successful outcome to a conventional military attack against Iran: and that is what makes the military option so scarily dangerous.

Israel will get pummeled from Hezbollah in the North, as well as from other enemies, bent on its destruction: the Israeli casualty count will be enormous, and far worse than the IDF has stated, as a result of their war games.

And then, there is Russia. Russian officials have stated very clearly that should Iran be attacked militarily, Russia will come to Iran's aid.Please tell me, is this what you want, sir?!? A potential nuclear war with Russia?!?

Majority Leader Cantor, I would strongly caution you to be very, very careful about the outcome you would ultimately like to achieve with this legislation you are sponsoring: the results could be both catastrophic...and irreversible. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/03/syrian-opposition-attack-alqaida-affiliate-isis http://www.infowars.com/more-war-in-2014/ http://www.infowars.com/iran-says-saudi-intelligence-ordered-embassy-bombing-in-lebanon/ http://www.infowars.com/england-privacy-concerns-raised-as-more-than-one-million-pupils-are-fingerprinted-in-schools/ http://www.infowars.com/white-house-announces-new-executive-actions-on-background-checks-for-guns/

12 years of war, 1.5 trillion dollars, innumerable deaths and all for what?
mikk,
now that's a tad hypocritical isn't it ? Wasn't it your lot who insisted they stop the intervention ?

mikk, with a combined IQ of naught, the three amigos, Bush, Blair and our very own 'Traky-Dacks' Howard along with a couple of other political non-descripts, simply followed the instructions as laid down by the military industrial complex post 9/11.
Their failed actions in the Middle East have resulted in the catastrophe the place is today. Not that it wasn't a catastrophe pre 9/11, they simply moved it to a new catastrophic level. Today we have the likes of Obama and Abbott beating their chests telling us what great "achievements" have been made in places like Afghanistan. Like Iraq and the rest of the Middle East, Afganistan is a train wreck, thanks to fools like Howard. If nothing else the mugs put on a brave face when talking about the disasters they have helped create.

<<mikk...Bush, Blair and...Howard[s] ... failed actions in the Middle East have resulted in the catastrophe the place is today>>

Another comic book reader!

With a view to saving trees, can we arrange for you guys to share and swap your old comic books.

SPQR I find both truth and a child like giggling in your post.
Yes the middle east has been misused by the west,s intervention.
That started over a century ago.
Country,s divided new ones made by a large number of country,s that did not include America.
Sunnis have hated and fought Shiites for much more than the colonial era.
Very much a possibility that Saudis are behind this murderous stuff now, maybe even as a client Nation of America.
Or even pretending to be one *using America*
Your rant SPQR highlights a fear in me that should not be hidden, you spoke words of a very far right red neck.
Becoming all too common in the Lib/Nats ranks.
Just too think insulting a large part of this country and trying to make mud stick to the ABC.
So your reward to Murdock, and end to free competition to his rags is frightening.
LIBERALISM is being muffled by not the whole, but the few, in control of that party and intent on a madness that frightens true Liberals.

Given the state of sectarian violence in Syria that is spilling over into the Lebanon & now Iraq, what is the chance of a full Sectarian War developing in the Middle East?

The Saudi & Iran have been timidly baiting each other for some time. Iran & the Saudi have both been covertly supplying Arms & fighters to the conflict in Syria. The Saudi supplying $6b in Arms to the Lebanon Army recently.

Where will they end up. The Lebanon have had some initial clashes with Israel lately just to stir things up in that direction. God only knows what will happen if Israel is drawn in early.

The latest developments in the Lebanon & Iraq signal a widening of the Syrian conflict. If the Lebanon & Iraq blow up into full scale conflict, I can see the three countries merged into one all mighty cross Border brawl.

I feel Egypt is in serious trouble with the Muslim Brotherhood being outlawed. Egypt will be dragged, ever so reluctantly into Civil War. Libya has just had it's Spring, but the country has not settled down yet & the Fundamentalists are waiting their chance in this unpredictable climate.

Once "the ship hits the sand" I can't see the Saudi or Iran staying out of it. Iran will target Israel. It will give Israel an excuse to take out Iran's reactor.

Will young Muslim Australians volunteer to go? Will they be allowed or will there be full scale sectarian violence here in Australia? Will America & Russia get involved? The UN of course will act like an old Nun, "now please play nice boys." but little else.

My prediction for 2014 is all out Sectarian War in the Middle East & possibly in the next few weeks.

The West should stay well out of it until it's over. It'll be an interesting few weeks.

Here's a couple of links that might be of
interest:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/arab-spring-democracy_n_4049414.html

And -

http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2012/12/03/what-happens-when-america-no-longer-needs-middle-east-oil/

AP is reporting that Fallujah has fallen to ISIS fighters who are now mopping up (ie liquidating)local resistance groups.

You get war over there, but it won't be confined to there there will be shootouts and bombings around the world. There are both sides of religion here as well.

Hi Foxy,

Many thanks for the link to the Forbes publication, it pretty well endorses my assessment of Jan 4 on this thread.

On indulgence I’d like to extend my assessment to look further at the geo-political and military implications of radicalization of the Middle East. This of course is based upon my earlier presumption that the West can now disengage at will.

As I see it there are only four players remaining in the ME. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Israel and Iran. This is because they are the only remaining countries that are “governed” and as such they are the only States that can make strategic or tactical political decisions.

Syria cannot, nor can Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, Egypt, Afghanistan, Emirates or most of the North African States from Somalia right through to Mauritania.

If we are correct on this, the only high level dynamics to consider are those between the four key States.

Israel can undoubtedly call upon support of almost any description from the West, possibly NATO but nothing from the UN.

Saudi Arabia is aligned with the West but exists in a state of schizophrenia. On the one hand it is a recipient of Western military support with US bases and is a major trading partner of the West. On the other hand it is “home base” for one of the harshest Islamic regimes under a “benevolent dictatorship”.

Jordan is “piggy in the middle” and home to a large Palestinian population, is weak politically and militarily.

Iran is not aligned with the other three major players and is now isolated from ME politics, but is strongly aligned with many of the radicalized groups at conflict throughout other Arab nations. Iran has only one role and that is to use “aligned” Jihadist groups to stir the pot within already failed States.

Russia or China could move in to claim the resources and regime support however, it remains doubtful if Russia in particular has the stomach for opening up more conflict fronts with Islamic Jihadists, it has more than enough on its plate with Chechnya et al.

Cont’d

Cont’d

Serious intervention would be particularly difficult for Russia for two other reasons. One that the ME now has less strategic energy security value and it would be hard Politically to revisit the Afghanistan debacle.

This leaves the West free to disengage at almost any level at a time of its choice. The failed and conflicted States can get on with the annihilation of their nations and their populations.

Those who wanted the West in general and the USA in particular out of the ME can reap what they have sewn.

If push comes to shove with Iran, which I cannot see happening. Iran will face the channeling of western military might through both Saudi Arabia and Israel. The US has an abundance of hi tech standoff and drone technology to eliminate every shred of Iranian Air Defense systems, fast patrol boats and Navy who are fish in a barrel (Gulf). Leaving the Israelis to take out strategic systems and mop up the bits with Saudi Arabia. The two Carrier Squadrons thy have there would do nicely.

Ah but what about nuclear weapons?

As we saw in the “Cold War”, nuclear weapons have only deterrent value. Anyone, even terrorists, know that by removing the deterrent by actually using nuclear weapons, everything they have ever fought for will end. There is no negotiation value in the loss of an entire nation.

By having Iran on a tight enough leash on the development of their nuclear capability, neither the West nor Russia will ever allow that capability to go beyond what they (or at least Israel) can take out immediately.

In such an event, Israel would occupy the Golan Heights, Southern Lebanon, Sinai Peninsula, much of Jordan the West Bank and Gaza. The rationale would be an exclusion zone to “contain” the radicalized warring neighbors within their chosen boarders. The Palestinians would be subsumed into the Israeli State, get educated, have jobs and become ethnic citizens as are many Palestinians living in Israel already.

If deemed strategically prudent, the Suez Canal would be quarantined and Egypt could do nothing about it.

SPQR, you are not seriously proposing that Bush, Blair and our very own 'Traky-Dacks' Howard could in some way be capable of rational thought processes, are you? Remember George said this;

"I'm telling you there's an enemy that would like to attack America, Americans, again. There just is. That's the reality of the world. And I wish him all the very best." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 12, 2009.

and he was seen as the leader of the bunch, speaks volumes for mental capacity of Blair and Howard.

579: There are both sides of religion here as well.

For my mind, if they want to go over & fight, all effort should be made to assist their going. Of course, then they should never be allowed back, should they survive.

Any of these people caught creating or advocating violence in Australia should be shipped to the ME with their families also. No trial.

I advocate a halt to all Muslim immigrants, no matter how they get here, until the War is completely over.

Dear spindoc,

Thanks for your astute comments and for
providing such an indepth assessment.
I also agree with your take on Russia having enough
on it's plate. A few years ago I purchased the book,
"Russia's Islamic Threat," by Gordon M. Hahn, published
by Yale University Press in 2007. As Barry Rubin,
Director, Global Research in International Affairs Center
stated:

"It's a truly remarkable
book about one of the world' most dramatic, bloodiest,
and least known conflicts. The book explores how
Russia became bogged down in a war over controlling its
Muslim Turkic region of Chechnya. It tells the
astonishing story of a battle truly symbolic of current
world crises: a struggle pitting Islamism, Nationalism, the
remnants of Comunism, and the modern nation-state against
each other."

Godron Hahn cuts through the maze of these
complex issues to tell a fascinating story.
Yet for a variety of reasons, very little work on this
subject has appeared in English

Jayb,
The Jihad has been going for 1400 years without a break, it will never end, the side which comes out on top in the Middle East will simply swing north to attack Europe and East to attack India, just like they did in the past:
Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret, by Dr Bill Warner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

Foxy, I am afraid that you like most Americans you have been led up the
garden path of a great oil glut.
The US will never exceed the Saudi or Russian oil production level.
Their current few million barrels a day extra they are getting from
tight oil sources has peaked and will decline over the next 3 or 4 years.
The US will never be without oil imports. They import around 40 % of
their consumption and the tight oil will never overcome the 4% decline
rate of conventional crude oil which peaked in 1970.

The reason for the above statements is that the decine rate of the
tight wells is about 60% per year.
If a war breaks out in the Gulf we will have petrol & diesel rationing
the next day. The Gulf will be closed to shipping by the insurance companies.

After the present concentration on Sunni/Shiite warfare I do not think
they will take on the West or the East with conventional warfare.
The would know that they could not defeat the non Islamic armies.
Understand they would be up against USA, China, Russia, India, parts
of Africa, Europe and all of South America.

They will try and pick off countries one at a time by use of
immigrants, insurgents car bombs etc which may well work for them in the Middle East.
They are not in a hurry as the important thing is to advance Islam.

However this all presumes that they do not exhaust themselves into
total collapse. I doubt if the Caliphate will arise from the ashes of
the current warfare. Conflicts like this leave very long bitter memories.
Remember how often they refer to the crusades.
Can you see Sunni & Shiite countries uniting to attack the west.
Our aim should be to stir them up as much as possible.

By the time they resolve the current warfare the world may be in quite
a different economic state. They may well find it better to stay in
the Middle Eat, but then they never seem to make the best decisions.

STG wanted to talk about at least the position in parts of Iraq.
He was spot on about some strange posts,even more came after his statement.
I think we need to remember the wars in south Africa mostly Muslim vs Muslim.
Paul 1405, bloke try to understand ,this war is not a product of one western country, it hasbeen going on for longer than America has existed in its current form.

<<Paul 1405, bloke try to understand ,this war is not a product of one western country, it hasbeen going on for longer than America has existed in its current form>>

Yes, Belly, spot-on

Belly, the Middle East is populated, and has been populated by poor and dysfunctional human beings for centries. This has given rise to instability, despots etc, all leading to all kinds of armed conflicts, wars etc. The only difference between the Middle East, and say Africa, is oil and therefore vital Western interest come into play.
At one time the region was dominated by the colonial powers of Britain, France, you can even throw in the Ottoman Empire into that mix. None of whom done anything to bring much in the way of peace to the region. These powers were more interested in exploitation than peace. The modern Middle East is very much the result of actions of past colonial powers, setting up states, installing "friendly" dictators etc. Following the departure of the old style colonial powers, a new power moved in, to dominate Middle Eastern affairs, that power being the United States, all in the name of serving US interests. I say rather that acting for the good of the region the US along with such allies as Britain and Australia have turned a bad situation into an even worse situation. Today we are seeing the direct results of past western failure. The Middle East is a case of failed opportunities, through greed and vested interests, as far as I'm concerned.

From Paul1405's post above you can see why the extreme left (aka the Greenies) and the Islamists make such good bed fellows --they both like the same fairy-tales.

In summary, that favourite bedtime story goes like this: the ME was once a great garden of Eden with rivers of wine and plenty of food, and thousands of beautiful doe eyed Houris running around catering to every fetish --until, one fateful day, immoral outsiders invaded and destroyed it.

The only real point of difference is that according to the Islamists the outsiders are called "infidels", but in the Green story they are called colonialists and neo-cons.

"the ME was once a great garden of Eden" SPQR where am I saying that?That's your words (fairy tale) not mine. In fact I said "(ME) has been populated by poor and dysfunctional human beings for centuries". Of course you would see The Greens as extreme left considering your views sit somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan, it's a long way from where you are perched to the center where I am.
If you don't agree with my post, say why?

If the current "surge" of outright warfare, including Iraq at present,
continues and spreads to involve more directly, Saudi Arabia, it will
lead to a collapse of several ME countries and Egypt.

They are demonstrating a behaviour problem that results in an inability
to accept compromise.
For 1400 years the Shiites and Sunnis have not been able to compromise
on who should have succeeded Mohammad in the 6th century, his nephew
or his deputy.
That is ultimately what they are fighting over now.

So, I cannot see how any compromise with the "West" could ever have meaning.
It is in our interest for the Islamic countries to exhaust themselves
but somehow we do need to keep oil flowing out of the gulf as it is
25% of world consumption.
Australia's economy is one of the most fragile to supply interruption.

Paul you ay have hit on a truth well no you have.
Often, not just in the middle east but Africa too.
Problems are made even worse by the level of ignorance and lack of education, other than religion.
That is and always has been a control mechanism.
Nothing can change a truth the western world is free to not be a follower of any creed.
Try doing that in the middle east openly?
We can not here in the west avoid a war bought about by China or/and Russia chasing power in this part of the world.
I offer North Korea China,s client state as evidence of the horrors country,s do for power.

Middle Eastern Tribal / Family conflicts have been happening for thousands of years over property and territory. Violence is inbred in their psyche.

Indeed Josephus, they have, but at the root of their problem is the
custom of marrying their cousins.
Do that for generations and you build in erratic mental processes with
behaviour problems such as the difficulty with compromise.

Strange that an agricultural people would permit cousin marriage.