The United States’ espionage chiefs have said “spying on allies is necessary” Is Australia one such alley. It has now surfaced that Australia worked for the US on surveillance operations, during the 2007 UN climate change conference in Bali. The embarrassing revelation has once more heated up tensions between Australia and our neighbor. Indonesia is now demanding an explanation from Australia, for this spying action. All along the US have been busy monitoring communication activities of up to 35 world leaders, including the German Chancellor.
The SMH, has named a number of Asian cities in which Australian embassies have been used for electronic surveillance by a group of intelligence partners known as the "Five Eyes" - the US, the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. The embassies allegedly involved in the spying spree are in Jakarta, Bangkok, Beijing, Hanoi and Kuala Lumpur, among others. The Indonesian foreign minister said it was "not cricket" for Australia to spy on the region along with the US. Relations between Australia and Indonesia have once more become aggravated.
Abbott has refused to comment other than to say that "the thing about every Australian governmental agency is that we all operate in accordance with the law." I’m sure that will satisfy our Asian neighbors.
This action by Australia once more paints us as subservient US lackey. At one time we were seen as the ‘slave’ of the British. Post WWII and our government become the sycophant of US imperialism, in such places as Vietnam, Afghanistan and the Middle East. Australia would swallow all US ‘suggestions’ no matter how ridiculous. After years of pretense that we are a good neighbor to Asia this nonsense comes to light. I had hoped that the “All the way with LBJ.” 1960’s rubbish was a thing of the past, seems not. I wish for a truly independent Australia free from US interference, based on this we have a long way to go to achieve that.

what do you think..'the over the horizon array' really is?
its sure not detecting the boats..yet its listening to everything[bet its even got the nbn cable going past it..to get the info..back home]

just like one off the first nbn connections was to the
the really big..telescope project..in wa.

from 730 report/last night
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2013/s3883861.htm

What role has Australia had in spying on neighbours?

American whistleblower Edward Snowden claims that Australia and the US are are partners in surveillanc of communications throughout Asia.

Dear Paul,

The United States has always been a major ally of this
country. We've co-operated with them in many areas -
including allowing them to have their operations centres
in this country -
with the hope that if this country was ever under attack
again, or threatened, the US would come to our aid.
We mustn't forget that during the war in the Pacific
during the 1940s we would have been invaded by Japan if
it hadn't been for the US. So in gratitude, Australia
has always co-operated with the US.

japan..never wanted to invade australia
no..invasion-force could hold it..

all..the claptrap usa will rescue us..*if
is too big an..if..to ever reasonably happen
heck..the lines of supply alone..so many bridges

now nz..thats different

Foxy you speak of events of 70 years ago, and fortunately for Australia the interests of the US at that time coincided with our own interests. There is a great deal of truth in what OUG posted. Not withstanding anything you have said, should Australia be eternally grateful for the events of the 1940's. I fail to see how post war a blind faith in the US has worked to our advantage. I believe alignment to the US has been to our detriment during this time, wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Iraq, Afghanistan, have been costly to us in term of Australian lives and Australia's standing in the world, particularly in Asia. in this time what have we gained from the US, other than this perceived umbrella of protection, is it real, or is it imaginary. A key word in your post is "hope" we place a great deal of faith in that little word hope. Lets hope its not unfounded in the future.

Oh come on Paul 1405, everyone is spying on everyone else.
Do you really think Indonesia has not got some level of technology applied to the task.
When they jump up & down about spies it is a big act just to embarrass
the other side.
Also they know that people like yourself will fall for it H L & S.

Or is it the greens are acting just like the Indonesians for exactly
the same reasons.
So you have a choice, you are either Machiavellian or naive or stupid.
Please let us know your choice.

It all sounds like good fun to me.

Dear Paul,

Australia cannot stand on its own with a population
of only 23 million people and a landmass as big as that
of the US it has been and will continue to be a drawcard
of foreign interest - be it business, exploitation, or
invasion. To that end we have to rely on maintaining
good relations with both our neighbours and our allies.
Of which the US is the major player.

Bazz, "Oh come on Paul 1405, everyone is spying on everyone else.
Do you really think Indonesia has not got some level of technology applied to the task."
The difference between Indonesian spying and Australian spying is we got caught. Then it come to light we are spying for the Yanks, no brownie points for us with our Asian neighbors. Abbott wants, needed, the Indonesians to help him out with asylum seeker the he tell them. "the thing about every Australian governmental agency is that we all operate in accordance with the law." It just helps to make Australia look stupid.
"So you have a choice, you are either Machiavellian or naive or stupid."
Machiavellian does not apply. "naive or stupid" don't forget I've read many of your most perceptive posts, so I'll leave those tags for you.

Our dependence on America is a tragic reality.
Once we develop our own nuclear and biological weapons, we will no longer need to depend on them.

Paul, me think always wise to know what your neighbours are doing.

How are your neighbours doing? I assume you live in a nice area

a great negotiation/leverage bit
what better way..than to obtain commercial advantages?

its diplomatic protocol

[alternately..why do we need test or watch..our mates for]
[because they serve/like love/enjoy..desire..for the same things..we do]

serve the same masters...[NOTE..not the people..nor the voters]
[ie serving their bettors..who gifted them special powers/money/honors the best seats/in the house..etc..the fuss allows one..to give up more..of the peoples to..both their respective masters..both of whom..owe the money changers..

http://www.angelfire.com/space2/light11/nmh/earth1.html

Once we develop our own nuclear and biological weapons, we will no longer need to depend on them.
Yuyutsu I think Abbott has penciled that in for next Thursday....am. Is it a bit like borrowing your neighbors lawnmower.
"Hi neighbor...do you think I could borrow your nuclear and biological weapons... mines on the blink."

"How are your neighbours doing? I assume you live in a nice area" Chris, I'll peep through their bedroom blinds about 9 tonight, just after him and her are in the cot. Let you know tomorrow, hope I don't get cough like Ozzie did, as Effie from the Comedy Show would say "How embarrassment" As we say here in down town Damascus,"beautiful one day, perfect the next, you can't improve on paradise."

good one paul. I can only go on what you claim, good neighbour and all minding your own business.

But most people I know, well they know a lot about their neighbours, they also prefer a certain kind, often admitting some hypocrisy.

To be frank, given we live in a competitive world of very different societies, I would be disgusted if our govt was not seeking intelligence about our neighbours, including Indonesia.

But, feel free to keep up the noble idealism here we all live according to what is supposedly right. It is important, but only part of the story.

What is amazing that after the Bali bombings and the Aus embassy
bombing anyone would think that we were that stupid we would not, or
should not have a major espionage operation against Indonesia.
The Islamists are still active in Indonesia.

Well I asked the question and the conclusion is that the objectors are stupid.

Chris, I'm not of the opinion that Australia should not be gathering 'intelligence' on our neighbors. In this day and age it’s unfortunately most necessary. What I am concerned with is the blind faith we demonstrate towards the Americans in this and other matters. The US is paranoid about intelligence both externally and internally. I would think the American spy network would be gathering intelligence on Australia as being necessary in their strategic interest, as they would put it.
The facts with this matter is Australia has been cough out and with some moral high ground indignation the Asians cry foul, at a time when we want them on side. All I'm asking is was it worth it. I only caution against a blind faith in America. What many fail to understand is America will (rightly) serve American interests first and if they should conflict with Australia's interest’s at the time, bad luck.

Paul,1405
What many fail to understand is America will (rightly) serve American interests first and if they should conflict with Australia's interest’s at the time, bad luck.

I agree, America must look after their own first, but, they also
need strategic friends in a hostile world, where they can't trust
many. So Australia is very important to them as a staunch Allie
and a strategic base outside of America.
Even the Americans don't wish to be all alone in a hostile world.

However, as the population dynamics take control of the ballot box
in America, like a Mexican United States Government or an African-
American United States government, then you can forget your worries
about our alliance with America, because there won't be one. Those
super weapons will then be protecting Mexico or Africa.

This should make you happy. Or will it?

some of the fruits of war..thank heaps
uncle same same..*for depleted uranium..*N0T*

how pleased..is god..with...you war/mongrel-muggins mutating HIS children?

here is a small thing..THE POPE COULD EXPOSE*
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=mutaion+birth+defect+heavy+metal

leads..to graphic photo's..of du..phosher/children
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3651890

more in depth..study..of du
http://raniakhalek.com/2013/03/20/u-s-turns-a-blind-eye-to-iraqi-birth-defects-worse-than-hiroshima/

Al Jazeera’s Dahr Jamail reports that contamination from U.S. weapons, particularly Depleted Uranium (DU) munitions, has led to an Iraqi health crisis of epic proportions.

“[C]hildren being born with two heads, children born with only one eye, multiple tumours, disfiguring facial and body deformities, and complex nervous system problems,” are just some of the congenital birth defects being linked to military-related pollution.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/30/faulluja-birth-defects-iraq

today, 14.7 percent of Fallujah’s babies are born with a birth defect, 14 times the documented rate in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Fallujah’s babies have also experienced heart defects 13 times the European rate and nervous system defects 33 times that of Europe.

That comes on top of a 12-fold rise in childhood cancer rates since 2004. Furthermore, the male-to-female birth ratio is now 86 boys for every 100 girls, indicating genetic damage that affects males more than females.

According to a study published in the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, a professional journal based in the southwestern German city of Heidelberg, there was a sevenfold increase in the number of birth defects in Basra between 1994 and 2003.

Official Iraqi government statistics show that, prior to the outbreak of the First Gulf War in 1991, the rate of cancer cases in Iraq was 40 out of 100,000 people.

By 1995, it had increased to 800 out of 100,000 people, and,

by 2005, it had doubled to at least 1,600 out of 100,000 people. Current estimates show the increasing trend continuing.

As Grist’s Susie Cagle points out,..
http://grist.org/news/thanks-for-the-oil-iraq-heres-some-cancer/

“That’s potentially a more than 4,000 percent increase
in the cancer rate,..making it more than 500 percent higher than the cancer rate..in the U.S.“

more
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3659185

shame on..the lot of you