Again Animals what ever it is called puts a few photos and words together but how much is constructed?
This Woman it was clearly said paid for her photos that for a time stopped our live beef exports.
I am afraid I do not trust her as she may well have paid for these too.
We are never going to become vegetarians no matter how hard she try,s.

Watching these taxpayer-funded, oblivious to the real world do-gooders makes one almost wish we could start a live sheeple export as well.

Belly/Indy...In my opinion...once they....after our careful departure of all well as well can be, we cant yet dictate what other countries do after sell. Once they have set sail from our land....our job as first world people....is done.

Planet3

As far as I am concerned, any person, religion, society or culture is only as humane as the way they treat their animals...

"We support the live export industry... I think the existing system is a good system."
- BARNABY JOYCE
Minister for animal cruelty

I would ask those posters who support such as MS Lyne white to consider this.
It is such as her and her group, indeed many who claim to want a better world, who do great damage to the things they support.
It remains true the methods they use and the reasons they do, turn more away than toward the problem.
White has been proved to pay Indonesian workers to*at least* let her film that awful footage of cattle.
Did she too stage and pay for those scenes? I find it hard not to believe so.
And if any of us stood for an hour in an abattoir while sheep cattle or pigs died to start the process of being on sale as meat? in this country or any.
And too such a film could be made in this country after a sale that sold sheep in lots of one or two.
Death is never nice but while AA has mastered producing its propaganda, while the unknowing will again cry export meat, to a market that demands live?
If we stop we break our farmers hearts and sheep from other country,s die that way.

society or culture is only as humane as the way they treat their animals...
Suseonline,
Spot-on,

Minister for animal cruelty
mikk,
Another idiotic quip from mikk. Why don't you go with those animals on those ships ? With a bit of luck you get mistaken for a sheep.

death..is the normal..end..of material living/a stage..life
some die at birth..some before birth..few die of old age
thing is its whether..or not there is cruelty.malice
whether..or..not..it was intended..or of ignorance

and that cant..be known..for sure..[that can only be seen in their heart..or by prior acts..or after/life..stained literally..upon their soul-body..[upon..our astral-soul/form]..we wear/the medals of honor as much-as..the weights..[burden]..of diss-honor

its said..we become..that we love
and those..who love murder..have condemned..only..themselves
and..more importantly..it is said..that judging other..wrongly..is the baddest sin of all.

I would like to see all live exports banned except for breeding stock.

The voyages, for a start, are cruel and anyone who has been in some of the countries mentioned can, if they keep their eyes open, see animal cruelty that would never be tolerated in Australia.

Our export trade in meat was once nearly all in carcasses and we need to get back to that.

Cutting a sheep's throat is not a job for amateurs nor blunt knives and they bleed out just as well if killed before the throat is cut.

lets look..into their soul..via..the beastly..astral-body/form
[why beasts..are beast..and not yet evolved into man]..is mainly as they..dont have..the higher thinking..passion/will..that yearns for better.

the systems..with/which..you are acquainted..and..which/use this expression..state that all/men..have an..'astral-body.'[soul]....
This is..quite wrong.

What may-be..called the..'astral body'..is obtained/by means of fusion,..that is,..by means/o.. terribly..hard inner-work and struggle...as much as by our desires/needs/wants

Man is/not..born with..a soul..[nor is..the beast
which..has basic wants..[water/food sex..etc]...And
only..very few/men..acquire an..'astral body.'.and even fewrer beasts

but..not all beasts..indeed but..very few/have..enough
emotional-baggage/karma..to have earned...a soul..ie..[few/beasts
have..sought..out..awareness..of higher wants/needs desires]..at death..the seek out their last want..and go to meet it

the-next life..consists of infinite passions..to simply-will it..brings you too..it..[if]..so a sheep..that wishes..to run/hide
at death..runs and hides..in time..it MAY*..feel thirst..and find/its immediate presence

in..short..god meets all its..wants
then..gives it its next..[hopefully higher incarnation]

If..it/is re-in/formed..[into new body]..when-that/.body expires
it may..continue/to live..on.as that beast..or revert to..a previous..want..higher-incarnation..is so wanted..or lower..according to our/lusts...wants passion[god needs meet]

after..the death..of/the physical-body,..and it..may-be..born again/in another physical body...This..is 'reincarnation.'..If/it..is not re-born,..

then,..in the course..of time,..that soul-form also dies;once its stains..are cleaned[revealing its inner true soul..[its body..of light...or back to..a material-body form..better able to meet..its wants

thing is all matter..is energy
and like..energy joins together..opposites re-act

the astral/form..or soul..is not..immortal..but it/can live
long after..the death/of..the physical body..."Fusion,..of self/building..the inner unity,[ego]..is obtained..by means of 'friction,'..by the/struggle..between..'yes'..and 'no'..in man.

If..a man..lives without..inner struggle,
if..everything happens..in him..without opposition,
if..he goes..wherever..he is drawn..or wherever..the wind blows, he will remain..such as he is.

But i..f a struggle..begins in him,..and particularly/if..there is a definite-line*..[drive]..in this struggle,..then,..gradually, permanent-traits..begin to form themselves,..he begins to..'crystallize.'..higher energy forms..

[this relates..to matter..denser energy concentrations]

But crystallization..is possible..on a right foundation..and it is possible..on a wrong foundation...'Friction,'..the struggle..between 'yes'..and..'no,'..can..easily take place..on/a wrong..foundation.

For instance,..a fanatical belief..in some/or..other idea,
or..the..'fear of sin,'..[any/fear..any drive/any obsession]..can evoke..a terribly intense/struggle between..'yes'..and..'no,'.and a man..many crystallize..on these/foundations

continues later..here..lol..at..the lamb/isl..thread
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040#175453

slaughter the unborn babies and then have moral outrage about what happens to animals that are not ours. Just a sign of the moral compass of a nation.

runner,
how do unborn babies actually get slaughtered in Australia ? I mean what is the procedure ? How different is it from normal abortion ?

Individual, I wouldn't take Runner on if I was you!
Runner, it sounds like you need to move to a more 'moral' country, like any of the Middle Eastern countries that don't allow abortion, but do allow cruelty to animals...

The live trade is critical to farmers in WA and NT. It is a complicated subject, well over the heads of most posters here.

If a company got it wrong, as is possible in this case, then they should be fined accordingly. That is a completely different issue to banning the trade altogether, which would cause huge suffering of livestock, right here in our own country. We can still see that from the Indo ban from 2 years ago, in terms of cattle now dying in a drought in Qld.

It is simplistic nonsense to say that live exports are cruel. A steer which grew up somewhere near Darwin, is far better off on a ship for 3-4 days, with food and water on tap, compared to being trucked 4000Km south.

Welcome back yabby I have noticed your absence.
Same old stuff.
However can we take a breath? just wondering how many took part in LWs propaganda photo shoot, and how many suffering and badly treated women and girls they stepped around to take the film/photos?
Too did those sheep have Australian pass ports? once on another country,s soil what should we have done.
Do we get involved with that part of the world that eats dogs? horses?
Let us not this time cut off our noses as we did with the live cattle.
But as promised continue in a good mannered way to try to show others how to handle animals.

Dear Belly,

I agree with Yabby.

We're told by the Department of Agriculture that the
live export industry is an important part of
Australia's livestock industry earning millions and
underpinning the employment of thousands in rural and
regional Australia. We're also told
that the government and the livestock
export industry is working co-operatively with their
trading partners to address welfare concerns, the
transportation of animals, and the handling and
slaughter practices of livestock in overseas markets.

I'm sure that this recent matter will be investigated
by the Department and (if needed) appropriate
measures will be taken to correct the situation.

The media clip showed a scene where some backwards mistreated a sheep. I'm sure that in a country like Jordan this is not the norm. If you want to see animals suffer long term than people just need to look at footage from the dried up farms after the cattle ban to Indonesia. This wasn't caused by some backward religious crowd but by australian do-gooders who stopped animals from being shipped to a far quicker death. Instead these poor things died a miserable & agonising death because of the do-gooders.

Individual, I wouldn't take Runner on if I was you!
Suseonline,
thanks for the warning but I'll make him live up to his name if he goes silly.

Individual

'how do unborn babies actually get slaughtered in Australia ? '

you obviously watch the abc or its sister porn channel sbs. They show everything disgusting but are so pro death they would not dare show an abortion (baby murder) taking place. You don't need nuch of an imagination. Very sick indeed.

runner,
I just clicked on Google Images & typed in abortion. There are some horrific images & yes it is barbaric at several months. I certainly don't condone abortion at such a late stage nor do I condone it for reasons of convenience.
Very early stages of pregnancy terminations are in my opinion acceptable in of course cases such as rape or if discovered early enough severe malforming.
It is difficult for to experience the emotions of a woman's unwanted pregnancy & we should therefore not judge it unless we are prepared to offer support needed. To condemn abortion because it is horrific is not reason enough. I find it more humane to abort rather than have an unfortunate & suffering human being having a life that is no life. It really is a tough one.

individual,

big queue for adoptions. Generally they are parents that love and want children.

The live trade is critical to farmers in WA and NT. It is a complicated subject, well over the heads of most posters here.

Iam glad some are still on topic.

Planet3

PLANET3,
This just goes to show that everyday life is somewhat more involved than just sitting in front of a government computer & feeling compassionate about others' suffering due to government kneejerk reaction policies.

Indy....The completions of what you have said...implicates the need of understandings of what complicates " when they leave Australia " with the red tape...In my opinion...., the sorting out is in fact the problem of a situation that simple, does not need to be that complicated.

If we don't make this country money, be bigger, better, stronger, we will fall into other countries fails, and that's all This great Australia needs to hear.

Planet

Runner..the third book has already been written.

All the best.

Planet3

that's all This great Australia needs to hear.
Planet3,
Couldn't agree more. After the shut eyes & closed ears of the last Government we can only hope that the new crowd is more inclined to reality.

Foxy thanks for an informed and well put case.
I agree with yabby and for the most part always have, in this area.
Others too seem to understand the importance of the trade to our farmers.
How many of us have took a sheep by its back legs and tried to make it move backwards.
Sorry but my radar is active in anything this group do.
And I think that sots was posed and payed for.
We all must not be taken as fools, my miss spent youth in an extreme union, the then meat workers, remember it was long ago, saw us youth in the workplace briefed and told what lies to tell, to protect the job of poor performers sending sub standard packed mutton over seas.
By continuing the trade and having input in to the handling and killing we do the best we can.
Ludwig both acted for the wrong people and did much harm but it in the end helped us learn to never do that again.

Foxy thanks for an informed and well put case.
I agree with yabby and for the most part always hav, in this area.
Others too seem to understand the importance of the trade to our farmers.
How many of us have took a sheep by its back legs and tried to make it move backwards.
Sorry but my radar is active in anything this group do.
And I think that sots was posed and payed for.
We all must not be taken as fools, my miss spent youth in an extreme union, the then meat workers, remember it was long ago, saw us youth in the workplace briefed and told what lies to tell, to protect the job of poor performers sending sub standard packed mutton over seas.
By continuing the trade and having input in to the handling and killing we do the best we can.
Ludwig both acted for the wrong people and did much harm but it in the end helped us learn to never do that again.

Indy..now I couldn't agree more.....yes we have the best animal protection in the world (in my opinion ) and I know it will continue.
We Australians have a top order of care, so let us be the number one, and show the rest of the world.

Planet3