http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/08/abbott-apologises-asylum-malaysia-solution?view=mobile

I begin to shake when I see him on TV now, I am just so totally enraged. He latest exploit leaves me completely and utterly flabbergasted!

Now he stands up before us and Malaysia apologizing (yet again) and offering contrition, saying he never had a concern about Malaysia and its possible role in stopping boat drownings through an agreement with the Gillard gov't, despite all he/LNP had said in parliament. It was all just a show, a bit of good ol' rough'n'tumble Ozzie politics!

So, instead of allowing the passage of parliamentary legislation that would save lives, he chose a calculated political path that was ultimately a central plank in his gaining power. It was never a case of Malaysia not being a signatory to the UN refugee convention (while he was happy to turn/tow boats back towards Indonesia, also a non-signatory). Nor was there a concern over Malaysia's humanity. No, not at all, he never really, actually, had a problem with Malaysia!

The gaping grin as he related this this and the dismissive waving of his ever moving hands have left me completely cold. To act as he did over the Malaysian solution is one thing, but to openly acknowledge that it was for pure political gain was audaciously, gob-smackingly, honest!

How many unfortunates have drowned since then? It is they who deserve Abbott's contrition, not Malaysia!

Another disgruntled Labor looser.

Australia is not to blame for the risks people from other countries take who loose their lives. More lives of non citizens of Australia were lost at sea attempting to reach Australian shores, under the Government of the last four years than since the settlement of Australia in the 18th - 19th century. Australia does not bear the blame!

The deaths at sea lie solely at the feet of the previous labor government and Lucyface is a prime example of left whinger hypocrisy.

Considering that lucyface herself has yet to admit that the illegal boat problem is due entirely to pull factors in Australia and not push factors the Malaysian solution, according to her logic would have no effect.

Labor in 2010 for the first time admitted that it had been lying and that the illegal boat problem was due to pull factors not push factors, refused to use Nauru as it was not a signatory to the UNHCR and Juliar sucked up the East Timor solution out of her backside, without even discussing this with East Timor.

Then after Nauru and PNG became signatories to the UNHCR charter, the idiots in Labor dreamed up the Malaysian solution with a country with probably the worst human rights record in the region, with nothing more than an "agreement" to protect the women and children. This is excluding the fact that the 800 person limit would be met in weeks.

Labor then proceeded with a half Rsed attempt to open Nauru and Manus sending only a tiny fraction off shore, and sending the human traffickers a business as usual message.

So now we have an Indonesian boat, with an Indonesian crew, leaving an Indonesian port sinking in Indonesian waters, with 2 simultaneous rescues in progress and a left whinger puffed up with faux outrage and hypocrisy trying to blame the only party that seems to be genuinely fixing the problem.

There really is no other way to describe this bloke, & a few of his rabid lady friends that post here. They are sick.

No thinking, intelligent person could possibly, rationally, blame the new government for the recent sinking of a couple of boats.

I just can't imagine the twisted thought processes that could lead anyone to come up with Luci's post. God it must be awful living in some lefties minds, that much hate must control their whole lives.

Obfuscating baloney, Shallow Minister. The criticism is that, despite what you want us to believe, Abbott had no genuine issue with Malaysia but was happy to criticize in furthering a political aim ahead of averting drownings by allowing Labor's solution to work.

Your second paragraph is convoluted drivel. Stick to the subject. Whether you think the Malaysian solution would or would not have worked is not the issue. The rest of your is your version of history, as if it's relevant.

No, this is about Abbott's character. We have a do anything, say anything, scurrying, dodging, rorting PM, vowing this thing and vowing that. For all his principled, pious self-holiness, everything is just a performance to further himself politically from opposing the Malaysian solution to riding bikes, to fighting fires, to his supposed special connection to the indigenous community http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/tony-abbotts-costly-indigenous-community-volunteering/

Hasbeen: "No thinking, intelligent person could possibly, rationally, blame the new government for the recent sinking of a couple of boats."

You are such a sad case Hasbeen, grabbing the wrong end of the stick as usual. I am talking about the many drownings during Labor's period in government, where the LNP had no real principle against the Malaysian solution but opposed it for purely political purposes, it is now revealed.

You call me a hater. I can only say that although I was not fond of Abbott before, this exploit has tipped me completely. If your hatred for Rudd, Gillard or anyone whoever else ever had the temerity to lead Labor, was as deep as I feel right now, then I now understand the depth of your hate.

So people drown trying to get to Australia, so what?

We aren't forcing them to risk their lives and no Australian has any reason to feel contrition because of these deaths.

The deaths are the sole responsibility of the adults who chose to take the risk.

Dear Luciferase,

I sometimes watch "The Drum," on Channel 24.
I did last night, and they had the panel discussing
this very issue. A few of the commentators pointed
out that politics was like a play - with the politicians
acting out their various roles. That it was basically
entertainment and drama. That in Opposition Mr Abbott
had a different role to play - his role was to bring
down the government. Which he successfully did.
Now his role has changed - he's the Prime Minister,
and his role is that of a statesman, his rhetoric has
to be diplomatic and calm, toned down, et cetera. He's
been given a different script.

It will be interesting to see whether Labor in Opposition
will follow suit from what Mr Abbott did - whether they
will use his tactics to also bring down the current
government or not. It appears that some of it has already
started with all the publicity on the Liberals
"rorting" of taxpayer's money that
been currently dug up and attracting media attention.
What else is on the agenda? This is only the beginning.

"Italy has declared a national day of mourning after a boat packed with African migrants caught fire and sank off the island of Lampedusa, killing at least 130 people."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-04/italy-delcares-national--mourning-migrant-boat-sinking-lampedusa/4997856

Australia's reaction to drownings, tough titties.
How sad !

cont'd ...

I forgot to add that neither side of politics has
anything to be proud of regarding asylum seekers.
Both parties competed with each other for the
cruelest, harshest policies on asylum seekers -
whatever was done the Opposition matches the
unshakeable determination to return all boats to
their origins and neither side discusses the moral
cost of maintaining a network of prisons - not only
the cost involved, (and now involving the navy) but
the cost to the asylum seekers. Yes, drowning at
sea is a tragedy and a heavy price to pay - but so
have been the policies of our governments to date.

Abbott has as much backbone as a 'slug'. Talked the big talk in opposition but as soon as he was confronted with the problems of leadership he goes to water.
Luciferase is spot on with Abbott, a month into his reign and what has he done, offered mealy mouthed apologizes to both Indonesia and Malaysia for any "misunderstanding" on their part about what he said in opposition on asylum seekers. Its a long way from Canberra to Djakarta and Kuala Lumpur but regardless of what pathetic spin Abbott tries to put on his past statements, the folks up there heard him loud and clear the first time.
Lying comes easy to Abbott, he will have to spend hours in the confessional box next time he fronts Archy Pell.
A bit of light reading about the bloke we have as PM.

http://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2013/09/15/tony-abbott-and-his-friend-cardinal-george-pell-perceived-bias-for-the-royal-commission-into-child-sex-abuse/

Of course warmair. Illegals only want to get into Italy so they can move on to the UK or Germany. None of them are silly enough to actually want to live in the deep south of Europe. They are only transiting Italy, & probably even pay their way.

Here they come to stay & rip us off. They are not likely to move on to New Zealand, now are they?

Luciferase,
Who cares about people drowning whilst trying to breach our sovereign borders. Only the 'treehuggers and greenies and the left wing laborites who can see advantage in vote building.
I believe the parents of any kids that survive should be charged with child abuse but that's another story.
Get real mate most of Australia just wants the boats stopped and they really don't care how.

Dear Chris,

I think the issue is not as simple as that.
I think that most thinking people realise
that refugees are a regional if not a global
problem, and that realistically we're not going
to be able to stop desperate people from coming
here no matter what the politicians try to tell us.
People will continue to come. The best that can be done
is regional co-operation to try to stop people from
drowning at sea.

The media and politicians need to stop politicising
this issue and spreading the myths and fears concerning
asylum seekers into our communities. Mr Abbott
is learning to tone down his language, hopefully the outcome
will produce good results for us all.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/pms-boats-compromise-offers-a-way-to-ditch-towback-policy-20131001-2uqs1.html

The deaths at sea lie solely with the idiots that got on the boats no one held a gun at there head.

The only thing held at there head was "WELFARE FOR LIFE" and an easier life than they had, bypassing safe countries to get here.

With a lot poverty and no real future in there country of origin is the problem.

WHY should there problem become our problem?

What are you advocates going to do when 50,000 turn up or the next 50,000 there HAS to be a point when ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

When 85% were still on some form of welfare after being here more than 5 years is ENOUGH to stop them.

No Foxy, in this one you are completely wrong.

Most people think the illegal gate crashers are their own problem, & the only way to stop them is to stop the boats. Nothing but their elimination is acceptable around here.

You won't find one in ten who think they are refugees or desperate. At least not desperate other than to get their bit of the good life on our welfare. Start putting them in tents in the sticks, with no welfare, & just watch them stop.

You are kidding yourself about regional cooperation. There can be none, when too many powerful Indonesians are getting a large kick back from the trade. Abbott may have been soft & conciliatory in public, but I'll bet there were some very harsh words spoken in private, & I'll bet there is a dramatic drop in boats over the next month.

People around here all work damn hard in private enterprise. Few have the fat pay checks & security of the bureaucrat, & many are struggling. Even hard hearted old me has been a bit surprised at how many, when told another boat went down, respond, "good that's a few less we have to keep".

Who can forget the admission on Insight (SBS) that it is the neon light of "Wonderful Centrelink" that draws economic migrants like moths to the flame?

Jenny Brockie rushed to move on without acknowledgement of course. The taxpayer-funded public broadcaster relies on multiculturalism and their claimed ethnic discrimination/victim status for the continuation of its funding by Parliament.

No-one is arguing against genuine asylum seekers. However, taxpayers (and genuine asylum seekers no doubt) are exasperated by the opportunism of economic migrants who along with the criminal gangs they support and the horde of professional advocates who suck their greedy shares of that $8 billion annual spend on illegal migrants (evidence on $$spend provided by Foxy earlier), are adept at manipulating the media.

Lucyface,

I love watching you tie yourself up in knots.

Either a) or b) is true as they are mutually exclusive. Pick one and stick with it.

a) The surge in illegals was due to push factors, and the Malaysian solution which address pull factors was a complete waste of time or

b) The surge was due to pull factors caused by Dudd's dismantling of the pacific solution, and Labor was lying to the voters for 2 years.

"Whether... the Malaysian solution would or would not have worked is not the issue." Actually it is. Why on earth would the coalition support stripping away all the protections for asylum seeker for yet another ill considered labor thought bubble.

Stop twisting this around into another thread on an old topic and, face it, Abbott is not very nice.

There are upteen threads where you can take your post, Shal, but this one is about how Abbott put politics before lives and now honestly tells us that is exactly what he did and.

His callousness over lives lost in pursuit of political advantage is jaw-dropping as he grins and waves it away.

Folks,
The real culprit is a quango called Settlement Services. This organization gets massive funding from the government to settle refuges in Australia. They give the new or better class subsidized housing, cars people movers, designer clothes, furnishings and white goods and even toys for the children including play stations and mobile phones.
Nothing but the best because they wouldn't want complaints.
When you question the government they say we don't give them anything. We give the money to Settlement Services and they give it to the refugees.

extremely sad to see anyone drowning (even your worse enemy). Even sadder when those who changed policy to cause the deaths (Rudd/Gillard) can't at least offer a simple apology. It seems the hatred of Abbott has simply blinded them of reason.

How about declare a day of mourning for those thousands of civilians murdered in countries from where the genuine refugees are fleeing. The illegal boat people drowned, lost their lives at their own choice.

Lucyface,

What you need to face is that everyone that has spent time with Abbott thinks that he is kind, considerate and focused on the well being of others. Far more so than any Labor MP so far. The people that don't like him are predominately left whingers who hate him for show them up as incompetent wind bags.

As for your absurd claim that the Malaysian solution would have stopped the boats, (even when Labor lied for 2 years that the boats were all due to push factors), considering that by the time labor were ready to send the first handful of illegals to Malaysia, the quota of 800 was already nearly half full, and the labor thought bubble was already nearly dead.

Therefore the only reason that the illegals drowned was primarily because Labor was not tossed out of office much earlier.

Foxy,
If we build a high enough wall and we offer them no support whatsoever but we do provide a plane ticket home we should be able to stem the flow of undesirables.

Your posts on this thread are a scrambling justification of the unjustifiable, Shallow Minister.

<< The deaths at sea lie solely at the feet of the previous labor government… >>

Indeed, SM.

And about 99.8% of the blame lies with one KRudd, who reopened this whole huge can of worms after it had been done and dusted by Howard.

<< So people drown trying to get to Australia, so what? >>

That’s a bit callous, Is Mise.

Our government should be, and I think is, doing everything they can to prevent any further tragedies of this sort… which is more than you can say for the previous government.

<< We aren't forcing them to risk their lives and no Australian has any reason to feel contrition because of these deaths. >>

One Australian should feel great contrition – KRudd. And all those who have worked against a decisive stop to onshore asylum seeking should feel some level of contrition as well.

<< The deaths are the sole responsibility of the adults who chose to take the risk. >>

No. The government that reopened this pathway to Australia, and then kept it open for six long years, must bear a great deal of responsibility. Not least the head of that government. Most prominently one KRDudd then also one JGillarDudd.

Ludwig,

Getting on a leaky un-seaworthy boat to attempt to enter Australia, or any other country, is the sole responsibility of the adults that chose to do so.

One of my daughters throws herself out of perfectly good aircraft as does her husband and they send me photos of them free-falling towards picturesque but very solid ground, it's risky but it is solely their responsibility.

<< Getting on a leaky un-seaworthy boat to attempt to enter Australia, or any other country, is the sole responsibility of the adults that chose to do so. >>

Well Is Mise, we’ll have to just strongly disagree on that point then I guess.

I mean, you can’t dismiss the push and pull factors and just place all the blame on those who make the journey. That is far too simplistic, and terribly wrong, IMO.

Then, Ludwig, all Australians are responsible because the pull factor is our stable country and our peaceful way of life, our wealth and our reputation for tolerance.

The majority of the boat people are Muslims yet they choose to pass through predominantly Muslim countries to get here.
One would think that their co-religonists would welcome them with open arms and give them permanent residency and expedite their transition to full citizenship; yet this is not happening, one wonders why.

The truth is that Muslim refugees have already found refuge and the decision to continue on to Australia is economic.
Tamil refugees make the hazardous trip for the same reason, their own people are much closer in India and at some times of the year India is but a walk and a short swim away.

Chris,
Can you find and post a link of the Settlement Services annual report or other info regarding them receiving government funds and how they spend it?

Obviously you have some knowledge of this mob and I would like to know more.

<< Then, Ludwig, all Australians are responsible because the pull factor is our stable country and our peaceful way of life, our wealth and our reputation for tolerance. >>

Yes Is Mise, which is why it was necessary for Howard to implement tough policies – so that the pull factors were effectively annulled…. and why it was so goddamned stupid of Rudd to unwind them.

The most important pull factor is the opportunity for onshore asylum seekers to come here, which Rudd provided.

Whatever the circumstances of onshore asylum seekers, be they desperately needy refugees, non-refugees, economic migrants, country-shoppers or whatever, you can’t entirely blame them for grabbing this opportunity.

But you can entirely blame Rudd for his abject stupidity.

Rudd may or may not have been stupid and we are all wise in hindsight but Kevin Rudd did not force one person onto a leaky boat,

They made that decision themselves and paid a lot of money for the privilege.
Their fate was in their own hands.

Banjo,
This is about the best I can get. They are pretty secretive but you can see how well organized they are.
They say they are contracted to provide services.
The same operation comes under different name in different areas of the country.
It seems they get funding for their operating costs and requisition what ever else they need from aid and welfare programs not classified as operating funding and remaining under the radar.
http://www.ssi.org.au/

Chris you said this; "Folks, The real culprit is a quango called Settlement Services. This organization gets massive funding from the government to settle refuges in Australia."
Then your "mate" Banjo wants you to post some dirt on this "sinister organization";
"Chris,Can you find and post a link of the Settlement Services annual report or other info regarding them receiving government funds and how they spend it? Obviously you have some knowledge of this mob and I would like to know more."

The best good old Copper Chris can come up with is a innocuous web site dating back to 2010/11.
"It seems they get funding for their operating costs and requisition what ever else they need from aid and welfare programs not classified as operating funding and remaining under the radar."
http://www.ssi.org.au/

Goog onya Sherlock, a pathetic bit of detective work, Banjo must be disappointed.

Obviously you have NO knowledge of this mob.

Lucyface,

Your thread is pathetic, and your justification for your fake outrage is absurd, the blame for the deaths at sea lies entirely at the feet of the Labor government.

<< Rudd did not force one person onto a leaky boat >>

No Is Mise, but he very strongly enticed them to do so. They would not have done it if he had left Howard’s policy alone.

<< They made that decision themselves and paid a lot of money for the privilege. >>

Yes, on the understanding that there been a very significant shift in policy in Australia. They would not have been able to make that decision if Rudd hadn’t tampered with border protection.

The pull factors had been very significantly changed. Or one major pull factor if you like.

It is just so obvious surely that the person and government that did this is highly culpable…. and that you simply cannot place all the blame for deaths at sea on those whose chose to make the journey.

Chris,
Thanks for that, interesting. Looks to be a newer group only in existence for a couple of years. could be an offshoot from an American group.

They certainly are government funded and would not be a surprize if they run a duplication service to that of the Migrant Resourse Centres, of which there are about a dozen in Sydney alone. With the flood of illegal entrants cutting out the genuine refugees, it would appear the groups cliental are the illegals. It also appears that about a quarter of their funds go on wages. Another group getting rid of taxpayers money.

Certainly worth bringing to the attention of the new Minister and maybe some in the media , for further investigation. Will keep the website on file and a lookout for further info.

Paul1405
You really shift the goalposts around to suit your purposes don't you?
I don't recall posting anything like your statement;
"Folks, The real culprit is a quango called Settlement Services. This organization gets massive funding from the government to settle refuges in Australia."
These are possibly your words but not mine.
Your pathetic party-line fundamentalism gives you away in many of your posts.
I have garnered a few and passed them on to a 'higher authority' so don't be surprised if you get a late night wake up call from the men in black hats.
Being anonymous is one thing but hiding behind a wall of infantile sanctimonious rhetoric is requires a lot more guile than you will ever possess

One more time. Labor was trying to dissuade boat journeys following the the abandonment (correctly) of the forced towing/turning back policy that processed asylum claims on the open ocean.

The LNP blocked the policy Labor designed to achieve that with dishonest slurs about Malaysia it has now retracted, saying it was only for political gain. Malaysia is none of the things Abbott claimed in his rantings in parliament, he has now revealed in an apology.

There is no disputing these facts, as much as you've tried to twist them, Shallow Minister. Move on

Lucyface,

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The problem with Labor is that they couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery.

Labor in 2010 had at their feet the chance of reinstating the pacific solution, the law was in place, Nauru and Manus were ready to take illegals, but Labor were simply too stubborn to admit that they had got it wrong. So what they came up with was a half Rsed solution where Malaysia would take about 6 weeks worth of illegals, in exchange for 4000 of their own and about $1bn in cash.

In doing so they violated every assertion they had made over a decade that the illegals were driven by push factors, and that they would never consider sending illegals to a non signatory country to the UNHCR charter.

To go further, they would have to violate the protections put in place by the coalition, and send women and children to a country with one of the worst human rights violations against immigrants and with no legal protection. The high court judgement specifically stated that the pacific solution provided protections that the idiotic Malaysian solution did not.

It was so bad that labor could not even get their coalition partners the greens to assist, and yet Lucyface is pointing the finger at the coalition!

Lucyface this is pure bollocks and everyone knows it.

You do re-write a good half-truth history, Shallow Minister, but you cannot deny the facts I spelled out for you, yet again, in my last post.

Lucyface,

Your previous post was full of spin and devoid of facts. The PM did not retract his comments, he apologized for the robust language used.

Neither has he at any point abandoned the right to tow back boats as part of the turn back policy.

Whatever spin you come up with, the reality is that if Labor not clung to power with the dodgy deal with the greens, the illegals would not have died.

I must concede you one point, Ludwig, there were others who were responsible for the drownings at sea, those who provided the un-seaworthy boats.

Robust language! http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/19310198/abbott-sorry-for-slur-on-malaysia/

"The coalition foiled Labor's attempts to legislate to allow the deal around a High Court decision ruling against the Malaysian Solution."

and what Abbott said about Malaysia, in foiling Labor's attempts to save life for his own political advancement, is all on the record and now apologized for, with contrition.

When you're on a loser, Shallow Minister, your form is to throw out curly BS in a first short paragraph then change the subject in the remainder of your post. Because I can't see your lips, that's when I know you are lying.

So, don't think you're getting away with changing the facts.

Banjo.
I will be catering lunch at the C*i*n* Golf Club for 8 of Tony Abbots cabinet and Qld LNP heavyweights and I will be asking a number of policy questions concerning inequalities in the funding system. I will keep you posted.
These migrant service providers seem to have many faces and facades of function all aimed at getting taxpayer money into their pockets,

Constable Clod, At Abbotts dinner I hope you serve plenty of humble pie and lots of crow to eat, they seem to consume a lot of that lately.
"passed them on to a 'higher authority' so don't be surprised if you (Paul1405) get a late night wake up call from the men in black hats (mates of Chrisgaff1000)."
Wow, I'm shaking in my boots, if the investigative powers of your flat footed mates are on a par with yours, I could dress up in a purple dinosaur suit and march up and down George Street sing 'Yank Doodle Dandy' and even with the tip off you mugs wouldn't find me.
As for what you post;

"Folks,The real culprit is a quango called Settlement Services. This organization gets massive funding from the government to settle refuges in Australia."
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 3:28:45 PM

Chris you said this; "Folks, The real culprit is a quango called Settlement Services. This organization gets massive funding from the government to settle refuges in Australia."

Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 11 October 2013 5:15:32 AM

Poor Constable Clod are you suffering from amnesia, last Wednesday was such a long time ago.

I don't recall posting anything like your statement;
"Folks, The real culprit is a quango called Settlement Services. This organization gets massive funding from the government to settle refuges in Australia."
These are possibly your words but not mine.

Posted by chrisgaff1000, Friday, 11 October 2013 8:38:44 AM

Please remember to cook that humble pie before serving, one thing Tony can't stand is uncooked humble pie.

What a joke. You know where you can stick your threats, where the sun don't shine, Copper!

Lucyface,

Please don't confuse your opinion with facts. If you say Abbott retracted his statements, please show where.

Labor wanted to look like it was trying to stop the boats, the coalition actually means business. There has only been 1 boat arrival in October. Last October there were 44 boats arriving with nearly 2500 illegals.

Christmas Island's administrator Jon Stanhope has questioned the humanity of both Labor's and The Coalition's asylum seeker policy. However Mr Stanhope has credited Labor's Papua New Guinea deal for a dramatic reduction in asylum seeker boat arrivals, even though he is uncomfortable with the policy.
Mr Stanhope says since the policy was introduced in July, the number of boat arrivals has gone from about five a week to just one.

SM if as you believe this is the right policy you may have to give Labor the credit.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-11/christmas-island-administrator-believes-png-deal-working/5017306

Paul,

I will give Labor some credit, it was their first good idea in 5 years, and they managed with a lot of advertising to reduce the boats by 25%.

The problem for labor was farting around and only shipping off about 100 illegals to PNG whilst about 2500 arrived. It was clear that while Labor talked big, they lacked both the competence and backbone to do what they promised.

The real drop off in illegal boats occurred after the coalition took the helm, got Indonesia on board, and actually started doing what they promised.

cant get over the different way drownings at sea are reported ...

those who drowned in the Mediterranean are described as migrants seeking a better life

in Australia .. they are mostly 'asylum seekers' or 'refugees

'cant get over the different way drownings at sea are reported ...

yep termilogy. someone killing a child's baby in womb a murderer while a woman doing the same is called pro choice.

Lucifarce,
Give us time to invent a term that best suits to describe you. Be patient, we will come up with something.