Pericles, I fully appreciate Kelvin Thomson’s desire to stay on the backbench and concentrate on speaking out about the big issues. He is certainly better-placed there than if he was to be unable to speak freely as a shadow minister. But I do note he has said nothing about accepting or rejecting an offer for the leadership.

As leader he would be able to both speak freely AND make a huge difference. So what we need to do is show that there a whole lot of support for him becoming leader, in the hope that he might put his name forward.

But of course it’s not going to happen. Looks like Shorten will be leader. Dear oh dear! ( :>(

Sure, as leader Kelvin would not be able to do things as fully as he advocates them being done. He’d have to compromise, and even though he says:

< If we did what voters want, on issues like population growth, migration, planning, foreign ownership, live animal export, rather than what big business wants, we would do a lot better > …

…he’d still be under huge pressure from the vested-interest antisustainability-oriented big business sector to tow their line.

But I have no doubt that he’d do a great job at starting to steer Labor, and hence our national politics and governance, towards the essential sustainability paradigm.

Yabby, I’m surprised. You are onside about the need to stop population growth and achieve a sustainable society, aren’t you?

Even if you are right about an end to live exports being very bad for agriculture, the bigger picture is surely much more important….. and that is to get away from very high immigration and never-ending growth, balance demand and supply, and live sustainably.

So I thought you would have supported a Thomson-led Labor government.

Ludwig, I'm for leaders which show good judgement. I have yet to see this apply to Kelvin Thomson on the subject of live exports. Being from city Australia, if he does not have a detailed understanding of the topic, he would be wise to keep out of the debate.

Ludwig you do understand do you?
Your one pet issue while having true substance runs mid field in this country,s current needs?
And too that many more are not yet concerned about the issue of postulation growth.
Harsh but true, add to that list concerns about taking true action on climate change, rejected at this election.
No party hoping to ever govern, can put such an issue first.
From within the ALP let me tell you this, your man is liked not loved.
Likes to be free to run his own race so stays away from positions that call for accountability.
Here is the heart of both why you want him and why he never is to be a chance.
Too in our insistence,all of us, that our views been the measure of good or bad politicians, we highlight it is us, not politicians who need improvement.

Yabby, could you summarise your concerns about stopping live exports.

It seems to me that we are exporting jobs with this line of trade.

I’d also be concerned that with a rapidly growing population, there will forever be more pressure for us to both increase live exports AND frozen meat exports, and everything else of this sort, along with increasing food supplies for the increasing domestic population.

We’ll need ever-bigger export income just to stand still in terms of earning revenue to pay for infrastructure and services for ever-more people.

So I come back to my point that heading towards a stable population is vastly more important than a reduction or even a complete cessation to live exports.

If Thomson were to become PM, I’m sure he’d do a bunch of things that I would be disappointed with. But his underlying principles re: population stabilisation and a sustainable society would (presumably) far outweigh these.

"we are exporting jobs with this line of trade (live exports)"

The problem is that the buyers want the beasts on the hoof until day of slaughter and sale because they and their customers don't have refrigeration.

Thomson would know that or he ought to know it. His solution is?

Thomson displays lack of judgement or at least convenient populism in other ways too. His letter to the US Congress about gun control is an example. He knows or is in a position to take advice on that too. His attention is better applied to the well-established link between violence and the 'Afro-American' sub-culture with its drugs and gang crime. Australia is in danger of creating similar sub-cultures, with similar problems.

While many would agree with you on the need for sustainability and would (should?) be equally exasperated with Labor and their treacherous Greens sidekicks, Thomson may only be masquerading as a commitment politician in respect of (over)population. Along with others he may be all fine intentions and publicity but no delivery.

On the other hand and as you might rightly say in return, what hope for sustainability with the other in Labor leadership hopefuls?