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The Forum > General Discussion > Rights in Prison?

Rights in Prison?

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I think that many miss the point.
A criminal is not sent to prison 'FOR' punishment. He is sent to prison 'AS' punishment.
This then means that deprivation of liberty is the basic fundamental in the social equation.
Under the UN convention on human rights, where we always seem to be stuck, we cannot set about adding punishment to punishment.
Even if a further crime is committed in prison it is the courts that have to assess and convict and punish not the prison authorities.
So what needs to be done is the basic premise of prison restructured to reflect community expectations and then send them there. Its a bit like the 'horse and the gate'. Too late.
Yes I agree with the death penalty where the psychological assessments and the nature of the crime leave little chance of attitudinal change.
The primary reason why life in prison is relaxed is the involvement of unions.
Whenever prison reform involves purposeful employment the unions have stepped in and blocked it on the grounds that the prisoners are putting workers out of a job. They say if you want to work/train them then you have to pay award wages.
There age good examples in the Paramatta Linen Services which used to do all of the Sydney hospitals laundry. A 20 million dollar facility at Paramatta Goal is idle and derelict today.
All the bread for the Sydney hospital used to be baked at the Long Bay Goal. Not any more.
The crown forests used to be looked after by prisoners in afforestation camps. Not any more.
Posted by chrisgaff1000, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 10:32:47 AM
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Why do you think we have so many re-offenders.

I have long held the belief that prison should be for hard criminals only and, it should be little more than a hole in the ground.

If you don't won't to spend the time, then don't commit the crime.

I know people personally who have re-offended just to get back in, no landlord, no rent to pay, no worries as to where the next meal is coming from.

Bit, like most things, we have to continually rob from Peter in order to feed Paul.

It's just a shame that the majority of Paul's in this case, are retired tax payers.

And people out there wonder why there is such a thing as tax evasion.

And thanks to this incompitent government, having squandered our mining boom spoils, the only way forward, is backwards.
Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 10:37:03 AM
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Economic mismanagement by those who are entrusted with our tax dollars has no small part to play in the increase of crime. Instead of going into infrastructure for the future much of the funding goes to bureaucrats who are also responsible for the insane squandering. Because the money doesn't get to those who need it many turn to crime. Because there are no programs to guide young people onto the right track, again due to so much funding being syphoned away, many young turn to crime. Those who deny young people a dose of discipline by way of a national service are the same people who then whine blue murder when they get a dose of their own medicine. A two year break in having 19-21 year olds out of the picture can not have any other result than a reduction in crime.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 5:58:20 PM
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Lets look at the very nature of a prison.

It's a place where the authorities' custodial
duties take priority over everything else. Its
a place of residence where the inmates are confined
for a set period of their lives, where they are cut off
from the rest of society, and where they surrender
personal control of their lives, submitting instead to
the almost absolute rule of a hierarchy of officials.

Prison, is usually used as a last-resort means of punishing
criminals and protecting society from them.

Many experts argue that society should waste little energy
on imprisoning petty offenders, for whom other forms of
correction - like probation, or community service - might
be more appropriate, and should concentrate instead on
incapacitating dangerous and persistent offenders by locking
them up - if necessary, for very long periods of time.

Without rules there would be no rule-breakers;
but where there are rules, there will always be people who
are tempted - or pressured - to break them.

When we live in a society with an unprecedented degree of
freedom, we have to face the fact that some people will
abuse that freedom. For example, if people are free to own
guns, some will use them to rob and kill each other. If a
society places greater emphasis on conformity to the rules,
like China, for example - that society has less rule breaking
at the cost of personal freedom.

Freedom implies choice;
the exercise of choice leads to differences; and one group's
differences may soon become another group's problem.
Perhaps in this sense, problems may be part of the price that
a free society pays for the liberty its members enjoy.
Posted by Lexi, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 7:02:29 PM
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Lexi, "For example, if people are free to own guns, some will use them to rob and kill each other"

But it isn't the ones who are allowed to own guns who are committing the offences. You disagree with police and government statistics.

While there has always been very little crime involving firearms in Australia, the over-sensationalised gun crime that sells papers invariably involves:

- unlicensed offenders who could never obtain a licence in the first place for all sorts of very good reasons and wouldn't apply anyhow;

and

- firearms obtained illegally, usually through direct illegal import (with OMG bikes in some cases).

You doubtless know better than to attribute the drug connected firearms offences of criminals who get their illegal guns anyway, with the legal controlled ownership of firearms by licensed citizens of good character, such as farmers, target shooters and hunters who go about their lives in a very lawful and peaceful way.

Conformity
The rules are there already. How do you propose to convince these fellows to comply?

<OUTLAW motorcycle gangs are ramping up the violence and no longer care about innocent bystanders becoming caught in the crossfire, a new report into organised crime has revealed.

Crimes previously kept out of the public view are now exploding on to the streets, from massive brawls to drive-by shootings.

Gang violence seen on the Gold Coast streets recently includes Finks bikie gang members in a melee at the Cooly Rocks On festival earlier this year, in which an 61-year-old bystander was taken to hospital when he was punched in the head, and the 2012 Robina Town Centre shooting.>
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2013/07/31/455536_gold-coast-news.html
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 8:21:45 PM
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Lets look at the very nature of a prison.
Lexi,
I think I can safely assume you've got an australian prison in mind. There are prisons & there are prisons. Some countries have prisons so appalling where it would be more humane to just execute everyone. Australia's closest neighbor has some like that. The next closest neighbor also has some horrific conditions. In Australia prisons are generally very clean & with most mod cons, in fact I have young offenders tell me with glee that they're looking forward to go to places such as Lotus Glen in Nth Qld. If that is a deterrent then I give up right now. prisoners get better medical attention than most normal citizens, again no deterrent. Many prisoners end up leaving a prison with a degree under their arms whilst a normal worker can't afford to attend Tafe. Somewhere along the line the wheels came off our justice system & the victims are let down just too much. The only deterrent obvious in our justice system is that it deters victims from speaking up.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 8:27:38 PM
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