Dear rehctub and shadow minister,

Rehctub, you give me mental exercise in spelling butcher backward. SM, I appreciate your comment, "This forum is not for delicate flowers who can't take a criticism without childish name calling."

I shall probably continue to disagree with you both most of the time but shall also appreciate you both most of the time.

Butch, no the Labor Party is no longer my beloved, I believe sometime post Whitlam Labor lost its way. There is no denying the party enjoyed success under Hawke, Keating and later under Rudd and Gillard, here in NSW Carr was successful and in other states the party also enjoyed the political high water mark. The price paid for this "success", which was bought by a shift to the right, was a loss by Labor of both its core principles and its direction. The argument we are having over asylum seekers highlights markedly how far Labor has shifted to the right. In the past as a party of social justice Labor would never have entertained the "Rudd solution" as a viable option to a humanitarian problem. Today it is so easily for the party in general, including the Labor left, to accept the unacceptable as being the necessary norm to win and or maintain power. Labor, if it is not careful, is placing itself in a position from where it may never recover. The Rudd government could well be the last hurrah for what was a truly great Australian political party.

....Hockey is on about you can't trust treasury figures again

doog, remember, this is the VERY SAME treasury (independent I might add) that predicted a surplus last time.

....So what has Abbott got hanging over Rudd's head now besides nothing.

Enough rope I would suggest, and he is using it very well indeed, as the honeymoon is over and his electoral victory ship is sinking.

My il informed prediction, a majority lib government.

Now I'm very willing to admit if I am wrong, are you!

...Some gamble big time in taking Abbott on trust.

Yes Belly, we have a choice of trust and hope, or more waste and mismanagement.

Yes worldwatcher, that's a very well explained post, as although most out there feel Turnbul would make a better leader, he shows no signs of undermining his leader
More so, he is quite contented with just being part of the team, however,I have no doubt that Abbott, unlike Gillard , if suggested will simp,y hand over the reigns.

Not a bad person (Turnbul) to have on the bench hey.

Yes Saltpetre, you forgot one thing, that being that Tony Abbott won't have to be continually sleeping with one eye open in fear of being stabbed in the back.

..The Rudd government could well be the last hurrah for what was a truly great Australian political party.

Yes Paul, ruined by unions I would suggest, as even now, when the boom is all but over, they sit there trying in vein to protect workers condition brought about by an imbalance in the supplier V demand scenario.

Wages and conditions must be allowed to rise and fall with business, otherwise employers simply find an alternative and, just like casualization, there is often no turning back.

David f, thanks and I also appreciate your input.

Rechtub you will never understand.
Casualisation at first was of help to the few who wanted it workers not boss.
It came via those hiring out Labour, at a cost to workers.
It is in my view more often than not an illness imposing on its workers/victims a different life style than the rest of us.
You clutch at any straw to launch mostly baseless mostly red necked thoughts on the world.
Your thread asks a question.
Consider this, as Kev has drawn 50/50 with Abbott has your question been answered?
Or if he gets us over the line will you remain right and the world wrong?
Clutch Turnbull to your chest he is your only hope.

the last time the coalition had a 70 billion black hole they pulled the same stunt, get independent from treasury figures and the black hole disappears, So that goes to show that treasury is not always right. So Hockey says.
Treasury predicts, on static figures, they can not factor in unforeseen circumstances.
Rechtub wants both ways, or is that the simpleton mind at work.
The head monk has fired a shot that was not supposed to be disclosed until after they had won the election. To come up with an existing solution + one star. He thinks people are stupid. Well he can fool quite a lot, either they are very loyal at any cost or they are .....
He has had years to come up with that.
Abbott was never put in place to fight for election, his job was to bring down a govt; by foul means, and be handed power.

Doog,

It is interesting how under the coalition, treasury figures were generally accurate, under labor they are generally very wrong, always over predicting revenue to enable labor to continue spending.

What do you think of Labor's $300bn black hole?

P.S. Labor has never in opposition submitted its figures to treasury for costing.