Bugger! I got my Banjos and Bazzes bamboozed!¡!¡

Apologies.

Banjo, I have no doubt that AGW is very real, given the enormous and sudden release of carbon stored in the earth for many millions of years, and the vast anthropogenic changes to the earth’s surface in terms of reflectivity and hydrology.

But quite apart from this, and at least as importantly, we need to prepare our society for the conversion from total and utter dependence on fossil fuels to a much more energy-diverse paradigm.

Yes I agree all the way that there is the most staggering duplicity going on here with the lack of action, an indeed in Australia the massive facilitation, of continuous population growth.

Now, perhaps Rudd is being a bit strategic with his move to an ETS. It is afterall a good thing in the longer term, and it no doubt will win him support from the business sector and a fairly large section of the voting populace, and it dilutes Abbott’s harder line policy of just abolishing the whole carbon emissions kaboodle. It could well be that this move will get him over the line at the forthcoming election, given how tight the competition is.

But unfortunately, there is not a lot of indication that he cares too much about the environment and none at all that he gives a hoot about sustainability. So I would think that this move is actually the opposite – it would appeal to the green and environmentally-minded voters when compared to Abbott’s policy, but will then likely be watered down even further, in line with his beloved big-business-facilitation and pro-rapid-growth-big-Australia push.

Talking about sustainability, has Kevin13 dropped Kevin07's vision of a totally diversified "Big Australia" yet?

That was one of the major issues that convinced his Labor colleagues in 2008-10 that Kevin07 was unelectable in 2010.

When Julia Gillard replaced "Rudd the Dud", her very first promise was to cut the record immigration levels set by Rudd that overstretched available infrastructure, forced up housing prices and for which he had never had a mandate and didn't intend to ever put to the Australian people for a popular vote.

Well, it seems that no one has a clue as to what Rudd is up to with
his latest switcheroo.
Perhaps he doesn't know either, it is just quick fix it now !

The ETS will be welcomed by the business people, or rather correction
by the Financial part of business.
They are already programmed up for the Trading market.
I will remind you of how the Russian oligarchs became so rich.
They did it by ripping off the European businesses using the ETS.
Now I find it hard to believe that they and others are not very
interested in a repeat performance on our entry.
They won't make as much as they did in Europe but it will be a nice little earner.

Ludwig, not sure what you were aiming at me, but I think it is pretty
certain that he, Rudd, neither has a policy of a "Big Australia" or a
"Not too Big an Australia", I think he just reacts to the buzz of the moment.

Well I am still skeptical of AGW especially as there has been no
significant warming for 17 years.
However we do agree that we need to get a move on with alternative energy.
While what I am about to write refers to the US, what happens in their
market affects widely the whole world market.

We have been bombarded with news about how the US will become a
natural gas exporter etc etc.
It has just become apparent that the conventional plus fracked gas
has started to decline. In other words the increased production of
fracked gas has not been able to offset the decline of conventional
natural gas in the US.
This means our gas plants at Gladstone will still have their market
as the US will not be an exporter.

With oil & coal the costs of extraction are rising quiet quickly and
will reach the point, where oil is at present, of it becoming unaffordable.

At present the oil price we are paying is $US 125.
That is a price that might well push our economy into recession.