Well, I did use the word 'give' but I was not thinking in terms of merely 'gifting' it to them, rather that it would be part of a more complex diplomatic/political deal.

Re: 'first for not recognising its value and secondly for foolishly presuming the recipients would owe you one.' I would expect in any such process, both sides would be well aware of the value of C.I. to the other, and I can't imagine anybody (me included) would expect to be 'owed one'. I do think it's fascinating that remote islands (noting CL is remote to the Australian mainland, but not to Java) become the touchstones for international stand-offs, and I could write a whole essay on that; problem is we're limited to 350 words, making it easy to critique people as foolish and stupid because they don't write a whole essay.

Re: "The other issue is that historical events must be understood in the environment that applied at the time. What you do is conflate past with present." As a historian, I know that the contemporary environment (and the previous history) influenced events at a given time; but I also know that what happens today is influenced by what happened then. The Middle East today is an obvious example.

Re: "to arrive at conclusions that suit your opinion." I rarely post 'my opinion' (or conclusions to suit that) - what I do is post alternate, often out-of-field ideas, to challenge other opinions (in fact sometimes opinions I share). (The exception might be my posts on evolution - but those were not my 'opinion', but the accepted state of science.) Historically, I am very found of counterfactuals.

One useful book on the establishment of Indonesian nationalism and its relation to the previous colonialism is Benedict Anderson's 'Imagined Communities: Reflections on the Origin and Spread of Nationalism'

A qualification to my last post: I rarely post 'my opinion' because often I don't have an opinion on a matter - either I don't have enough knowledge or it's very complicated or I can see merit on both sides, or all of the above.

I am open to evidence and argument, but calling me (or implying that I am) stupid and foolish is not the way to do it.

In this case, the location of CI and therefore the Australian border so close to Indonesia due to the accident of history is the elephant in the room re the ease with which boats can get to Australia. It never gets discussed. Certainly there are pros and cons in 'giving' (aka doing some complex diplomatic negotiating etc.) C.I. to Indonesia, but I think it is worth serious consideration. Alas onthebeach's post was just an attack on me based on unfounded assumptions of my (foolish) beliefs.

PS Does everyone else REALLY believed everything they post?

Cossomby,

You haven't put any arguments of worth to support your opinion that Australian territory should be given away. As well, there is nothing to suggest that illegal immigrants would be deterred. They take other routes already. What about the boats from Vietnam too?

To say again, gifting Christmas Island would inevitably be interpreted as double stupidity by the Indonesians and others in SEAsia: first for not recognising its value and secondly for foolishly presuming the recipients would owe you one. Their thoughts? Obviously Australians are contemptuous of their own assets that they do not value them and don't care enough to keep them.

There is no chance whatsoever that the Australian electorate would agree to giving Australia territory away. Your solution to that is anti-democratic.

Kevin Rudd and Greens' Bob Brown and Christine Milne typically act on their ideology without concern for advice and oblivious to the unintended consequences of their actions. Overturning Howard's arrangements was foolish indeed. Bob Brown wisely got out as the proverbial was hitting the fan.

Even the gnarled old guru of the Left, Prof Robert Manne, admitted that the Left got it hugely wrong over asylum seekers. The mess is hundreds of people dead and billions of Taxpayers money wasted and more millions more still to be lost.

Giving away Christmas Island would just add to the losses and for no gain whatsoever.

Cossomby,

There may be some complications with ceding Christmas Island to Indonesia, although I agree that its proximity to Java - and probably far longer historical ties with Java than with Australia - would be a sensible course. But here's another idea, from way, way out in left field, or some equally bizarre location:

* declare (after mutual agreement, of course) that Christmas Island is a jointly-administered special territory of both Indonesia and Australia - and for migration purposes people arriving there by boat without exit papers are deemed to be still in Indonesia. For other purposes, to be negotiated, such as union membership, welfare benefits and pay rates for the current population, the Island is deemed to be part of Australia.

As well, the Island can be declared to be a 'Special Economic Zone', with special taxing and business subsidy regulations, and General Motors and Ford could move their manufacturing there, closer to Asian markets. Win-win !

Maybe not that last bit.

I can see problems with that idea already :( But maybe they can be dealt with.

Just wondering.

Joe

Get a load of Labor's hypocrisy.

http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/media/speeches/2008/ce081117.htm

(Immigration Minister, Tony Burke, from 2008, addressing the Refugee Council of Australia)

"...the Howard government sought to outsource our international protection obligations to less developed countries when we should have been shouldering them ourselves."

Refugee Policy Under The Rudd Government – The First Year Address to the Refugee Council of Australia Parramatta Town Hall, Monday 17 November 2008.

We’re talking about:
•30 000 people arrived by boat in Italy
•2600 in Malta
•15 000 in Greece
•10 700 in Spain and the Canary Islands.
I think these numbers help to put the Australian experience in perspective.

Other part of the world. Nothing to do with Australia. We don't want Muslims here, polluting Australian Culture.

From a Simple Minded Bigot, thanks again poirot. 5 years ago, old news, the situation has worsened. Yes Rudd made a mistake & he has recognized this. He is now going to rectify it (hopefully.)