What a bizarre series of assertions here, many without foundation. Firstly, to suggest that we do any animal a favour by eating it is far-fetched, to say the least. As a general rule we do not favour eating horses, or dogs (in Australia, at least) but they do not appear to be facing extinction. To suggest that by not eating them they will disappear into being zoo exhibits is quite extraordinary, to say the least. Animals do not deserve to be in zoos, either.
Alanpoi, does your father keep his dairy cows almost permanently pregnant until they are worn out years before their time? What does he do with male calves? (I find it hard to believe that he would do some of the things done to dairy cattle to his kids, I'm afraid).
Are we seriously suggesting that we do intensively farmed pigs and broiler (meat) chickens and egg-laying hens even minimal favours? Or treat them with basic, common decency? If only they could talk!
PETA, (through www.savethesheep.com), Animals Australia and Animal Liberation all openly promote a carcass/frozen meat trade to replace live exports, too - it is simply that different organizationa have different advocacy strategies. I'm sure than none of them cares too much for having to promote any such thing and would prefer that animals not be slaughtered, but all clearly see this as the lesser of the evils.
Let's get a bit of focus here. In terms of suffering, the scale upon which farmed animals suffer is just horrendous. In terms of suffering, it is no worse slaughtering a cat, a whale, or a sheep, a pig or a cow.
I think that people are probably getting tired of the never-ending woes of livestock farmers, and community expectations are changing as people become more aware of what these people are prepared to do with, and to, these animals that they claim to "love".
Nicky

Nicky

Hello Your comments are always appreciated. You asked for focus, ok.

Lets focus on not pushing away any farmers or who people who take their time to post on Animal Welfare and farming.

Whilst it may not be intended it pushes farmers and public further away instead of closer.
Perhaps it’s a subconscious thing but most people would read your above post as anti farming full stop.


Ask yourself is it not better to educate people slowly than chase them away.
It’s a farm Nicky what do you `think` happens with the bull calves.

The farmers Son he probably doesn’t know about intensive pig farms and poultry farm if he`s grown up in the country.
Would be horrified if he saw what we have. He`s young and a little naïve but he had the social conscience to come in here and ask those questions
Isn`t that what we want? The opportunity to inform and educate people?.

Especially a young man who maybe one day will take over his Dads farm.

All the farmers and farmers federations and others are complaining to me that Animal Welfare groups basically oppose any sort of farming.

I am saying – No that is incorrect.
Anybody reading your last post would argue that was a thinly veiled attack at farmers.

It is this very type of campaigning that backfires.

Please go back and read your comments as others will.
Your whole posts screams it`s wrong to eat any animals.
Then you go on to say that PETA Animals Australia Animal Liberation openly support the carcass trade on their web sites.
Yes I know but `nobody` believes them!!.
People are not tired of hearing the problems of farmers Nicky. They ARE tired of a bunch of animal nuts kicking a dog while he`s down.

Campaign everywhere but in the end only one thing is going to FIX it.
Help us to establish free range farms and build abattoirs to stop intensive farming and live exports.

PLEASE!

Hi again, PALE
My comments were not necessarily anti-farming, more in opposition to the cruelty practised by farming operations. I believe that any other business has to successfully compete in its environment without the multiplicity of government handouts that farmers receive - if they don't, they go under - that's life. If these people are as "down" as yu seem to believe, they should be availing themselves of the opportunities you offer.
My personal beliefs with regard to eating any animals are irrelevant. I do not belong to any groups, and to say that no-one believes the statements of those groups is simplistic. People DO believe them, because they are good at what they do. It is simplistic to argue that there is anything humane about rounding animals up and trucking them off to slaughterhouses. It is a shocking, brutal end to millions of innocent lives every day, and EVERY ONE of those animals feels terror, pain, and stress. Some may have had slightly better lives than others, but every sheep, every cow, every pig and every chicken has suffered immeasurably before it died. Humans just have the "upper hand" in the administration of cruelty and death. I make no apology for pointing that out, and if it moves some people out of their "comfort zones", having to think about what happened to their food before it got there, so be it.
I have seen animals fall from overloaded transporters because the farmer will not hire a second transporter in preference to cramming as many on as possible. I have carted water to animals left in barren paddocks because they won't feed or provide them with water. And that's fine, because they are just sheep, or cattle, not whales, dogs or cats. And the FARMERS are "down on their luck"? Give me a break. If they can't or won't take responsibility for their animals and their businesses, and they have to keep being bailed out by my tax dollars, I'm running short of sympathy. If they can't "hack it" then they shouldn't be responsible for living, feeling, sentient creatures.
Nicky

Nicky.
Yes but then if they all leave the country farms it plays into the hands of the even more cruel- The intensive farmers.
So we are far better off helping the free range farmers that we have left.
I understand where you are coming from beleive me.

People with your dedication pashion and brains are hard to find.
Some time ago I suggested to you a chain of veggie fast food stores.
You said you liked it.
I will supply you with the contacts.

Now to share some happy news with you for a change.

I also mentioned to you ages ago that we were keeping our fingers and everything else crossed for a certain person to be elected.
Do you remember? Well he was.

About five years ago I sat down on the floor in my ofice after not receiving even one reply to our three thousand letters sent out to Churches and Church Leaders to help us help the animals.
The mixture of saddness and anger at the same time was almost impossible to describe.
I heard the ding of my computer telling me there was a message.
I walked back to see I had received `one` reply.
God they say has a strange way of working.
If anybody had ever told me years ago I would have a MOU with The Muslim Leaders of Australia I would have said they were crazy.

I have learnt that man is man and good and bad walk amoungst all people.

I will do what must be done to help animals.
No Nicky we wont EVER stop people eating animals.
However God has given `you` a chance to really improve condtions.
I beleive you are one of those good people God has put in my path.

Sleep now Nicky and just know big things are happening quitley.

Know this. You have "already made a big difference to help the Animals"
Good night

Nicky – I think a lot your comments are way out of line and out of touch with reality.

Were did you get the idea that all farmers receive government hand outs? That’s absolute rubbish.

Its obviously something you are unable to deal with, but animals bred for human consumption are killed by the 10,000s every day in abattoirs. I believe they are killed as humanely as possible with a lot of effort put into minimizing stress before the event. They are grown as food, it has to be done. You may be able to find the exaggerated ‘horror’ stories of things gone wrong, and yes, sometimes things do go wrong, but don’t try and make out that every animal suffers horribly before they go. That’s just sensationalism. I suppose there is one exception – halal – that is cruel. I would rather they go to a licensed abattoir than some cut lunch cowboys backyard that’s for sure.

Alanpoi is absolutely right. We are doing them a favour by eating them. Cant see the use for to many cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, deer etc if they are not kept for food. The zoos can only take so many,a few pets maybe, the rest we could release into the wild? Then what would happen? They would grow into larger numbers in our native forests destroying the habitats of native animals, breed into larger numbers and then, in the search for food they would start to destroy the crops that this veggie planet would now rely on to live. We will leave up to you to decide how you are going to humanely control this situation, without killing them of course!

Jenna fyi

There are many Halal accredited Abatattoirs in Australia. All export Halal plants 'must comply with Australian law."
These animals are "pre stunned". Each Animal going through halal plants in Australia is one less going on ships alive.
Australia iS the biggest Live Animal exporter in the world.
The demand for halal meats is huge. its going to grow more and more.
We can work with the muslim People to make Australia the hub of Halal Meats oR we can icrease live exports and send them where there are no laws! for Animal Welfare.
I will leave you to choose. I already made that horrible choice a few years ago.
Once I did I found it best to work with muslim Leaders of Australia who have unlike church leaders and our Government actually spoken out about the real reasons for the cruel live export trade.
In every and all dealings with them they put animal welfare on the top of their agenda- unlike some.
As i said- We can either make Australia the hub of Halal which is good for Australia or watch more and more leave by ships.
All Australian laws ARE followed and PF comments are uninformed.
Not that I would expect a pig farmer to understand Halal because pork is forbidden to Muslims.
Begining to understand why- he he he