Breaking Rural News : AGRIBUSINESS AND GENERAL

Save the animals; eat a whale: PETA
Australia
Monday, 30 April 2007

PETA's campaign to save the animals has moved from the bizarre to the ridiculous, with the group reportedly encouraging meat eaters to consume whales as it would save the lives of thousands of cattle and sheep.
According to an Australian Wool and Sheep Industry Task Force newsletter, PETA has recently begun re-publicising its 2001 'Eat the Whales' campaign.

Please click here for full story.
http://www.farmonline.com.au/news_daily.asp?ag_id=42162

Pale People Against Live Animal Exports is outraged by the damage done by PETA and those in Australia that support them.

This is beyond the pale and we are fed up with these extreme groups getting our Australian Farmers off side.

If you are running a vegetarian group then at least be honest about it.
Not that there is anything wrong with vegetarian groups either.

However The fact is Australia is a meat eating country and we `must` work together to find alternatives.

We have for years tried to lead some of these groups in the right direction.

If it were not for the fact we were lucky enough to have a really fantastic CEO of RSPCA in Queensland we could not have made as much progress as we have.

While that progress has taken longer than we had hoped there are positive steps being taken.

PETA and their supporters have consistently for years refused to support our HKM proposal Its simply a joint effort with Muslim leaders of Australia and our organisation who signed a MOU several years ago to create more carcass trade.
See>
http://www.halakindmeats.com/

PETA refuse to speak with pale or reply to the many letters written to them about this step being taken.
They have 'even" hung up in staffs ear when contacted by phone to discuss this step forward to help animals.

Ingred we assure you we "wont" be bullied.

If people spent less time fund raising and trying to block others taking any steps towards finding an alternative the Animals Farmers and Australian Public would be far better off.

What about Cats? They pretty tasty. Though personally I prefer to eat them when they're still kittens with just a little bit of sauce. Ummmmmmmmm. Kittens. Finger licking good.

Cannibalism is looking better every day.

If we stop eating meat what will happen to domestic animals?
We are actually doing them a favour by eating them otherwise they would die out except for a few specimens in zoos. Its called a symbiotic relationship, they scarifice some of their number to ensure the survival of the species, and we get a good feed, its called the law of nature.

Whales are a sustainable source of food.

The fact still remains that the majority of Australian people care about Animals.
In order to bring about much needed changes we must all work together.
Telling people to not eat meat- or eat whale instead is irresponsible.
It doesnt just effect those who say it it effects `every animal welfare group` working to improve conditions.

It sets everybody back especially the animals.

A message to all Animal Lovers and All Animal Welfare Groups.
Please re consider your attitude for the animals sake.
Make friends of farmers- not enermies.
Work with us as we work together with Muslim Leaders of Australia to increase the carcass trade.


Allow us to drive the trade to ME of Carcass.
Please Join Our Free Range Farmers Support Group.

http://www.freerangefarmers.com/freerange/

Look at the HKM web page. Look at the written submission to the Animal Welfatre Senate enquiry and please re consider and support this proposal.
We certainly are willing to work with all other groups for the Animals.
Animals need all groups working together.
I am asking PETA and their supporters to be more understanding of farmers.

Farmers didnt create this problem the Governments and live shipping agents did.

http://www.halakindmeats.com/


We ask all Australian people and farmers to look at this proposal.

It has been put together working in conjunction with AFIC RSPCA QLD and supported by the NSW Humane Society and it needs everybody to get behind it.
For The Animals.

Hey this kiwi Copy is pretty cute guys.

freediver: "Whales are a sustainable source of food."

Yeah right - are you going to put that up on your "Sustainable Party" web page, along with your creationism links?

Good luck - you'll need it.

Here you go:

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168478179

Alanpoli
Sorry for the delay in responding to you.

Alanpoli Says>
"If we stop eating meat what will happen to domestic animals?
We are actually doing them a favour by eating them otherwise they would die out except for a few specimens in zoos."
Reply to Alanpoli
Nobody is saying we should not eat meat. Well at least the pale people are not saying that." Some groups do'
Of course they also have a right to talk to people about being a Veggie or Vegan Alonpoli.
We just would prefer those people were up front about it because it confuses the farmers.
Now to your comments about what would happen to farm animals if we stopped eating them?
Well I cant say I could agree with you that we are doing them any favours by eating them. I think thats a rather going too far. I am sure all animals that are sentenced to a life of hell wouldnt mind not going through that.
Zoos are basically cruel by the way.
However I think you would agree that domestic animals have a right to be treated in a proper manner. Not unless your saying as we eat them who should care if they suffer before we kill them?
I am sure if you or I ever came back as a farm animal we might care.
You will find in life Alanpoli that all most of these people world wide are protesting about is the way in which we treat animals.
ok Lets say you dont care about animals.
I put it to you that you care about your family children.
If you dont know how much disease is spread by poor animal care I suggest you do some reading on it.

Thank You for your comment its always good to get others thoughts.

I am against the mistreatment of animals, if we are going to eat them we should kill them humanely.I live in a rural area and I don't agree that all farm animals go through a life of hell, most spend a life of luxury, pampered with the best of tucker, free from predators, a good health care program and for some an excellant sex life, unfortunately some suffer a premature death and some particulary pigs and chooks live in conditions that are less than satisfactory, and I agree that the live sheep trade is abhorrent.Cruelty, wanton or otherwise is not in the farmers interest and indeed some farmers love their animals dearly, my own father a dairy farmer, treated his cows better than his kids.
The question I raised (albeit tongue in cheek) is however one that to my knowledge has not been addressed by animal liberationists who advocate a vegan or vegitarian lifestyle, some of whom vehmently oppose the eating of meat, that is what would happen to domestic animals if we stop eating meat, without addressing this issue they are on very shaky ground

Alanpoli

Thanks for your comments. You must be living in a lovely part of the country. Yes many farmers are kind to their animals. Your dad sounds like the real deal.
We certainly support farmers like him.
Whats sad however is the real farmers are getting shoved out by the intensive farmers in this country and we must do something to protect the man on the land.
We are supporting free Range Farmers and I will put up the link For you to show Dad. We would love a dairy farm to put up. The Page is very new.

http://www.freerangefarmers.com/freerange/

Also if there is anything we can do now or ever in these hard times do not hestitate to contact us.
How big is your dairy Farm?
Are there many other dairy farmers in the area.
We hope to set up a co op to sell powered milk to Iraq and other countries.
They originally requested live Cattle however have agreed to look at the idea of establishing a plant to divert to powered milk.

Considering the price you guys are getting here at the moment maybe Dad and a few mates might be interested.

They would not be asked to pay for the plant and the prices would be better than local.

There is a world wide shortage of powered milk and has been for quite a while.
We could arrange the halal Accreditation etc.

As for your question to Animal Libbers You would have to ask them.
Trust me when I tell you not all farm animals are lucky enough to have a good farmer like your Dad.
Millions suffer each year in the most unbelibable cruelty.
Nice To chat with you Alanpoli.
Look after Dad.

What a bizarre series of assertions here, many without foundation. Firstly, to suggest that we do any animal a favour by eating it is far-fetched, to say the least. As a general rule we do not favour eating horses, or dogs (in Australia, at least) but they do not appear to be facing extinction. To suggest that by not eating them they will disappear into being zoo exhibits is quite extraordinary, to say the least. Animals do not deserve to be in zoos, either.
Alanpoi, does your father keep his dairy cows almost permanently pregnant until they are worn out years before their time? What does he do with male calves? (I find it hard to believe that he would do some of the things done to dairy cattle to his kids, I'm afraid).
Are we seriously suggesting that we do intensively farmed pigs and broiler (meat) chickens and egg-laying hens even minimal favours? Or treat them with basic, common decency? If only they could talk!
PETA, (through www.savethesheep.com), Animals Australia and Animal Liberation all openly promote a carcass/frozen meat trade to replace live exports, too - it is simply that different organizationa have different advocacy strategies. I'm sure than none of them cares too much for having to promote any such thing and would prefer that animals not be slaughtered, but all clearly see this as the lesser of the evils.
Let's get a bit of focus here. In terms of suffering, the scale upon which farmed animals suffer is just horrendous. In terms of suffering, it is no worse slaughtering a cat, a whale, or a sheep, a pig or a cow.
I think that people are probably getting tired of the never-ending woes of livestock farmers, and community expectations are changing as people become more aware of what these people are prepared to do with, and to, these animals that they claim to "love".
Nicky

Nicky

Hello Your comments are always appreciated. You asked for focus, ok.

Lets focus on not pushing away any farmers or who people who take their time to post on Animal Welfare and farming.

Whilst it may not be intended it pushes farmers and public further away instead of closer.
Perhaps it’s a subconscious thing but most people would read your above post as anti farming full stop.


Ask yourself is it not better to educate people slowly than chase them away.
It’s a farm Nicky what do you `think` happens with the bull calves.

The farmers Son he probably doesn’t know about intensive pig farms and poultry farm if he`s grown up in the country.
Would be horrified if he saw what we have. He`s young and a little naïve but he had the social conscience to come in here and ask those questions
Isn`t that what we want? The opportunity to inform and educate people?.

Especially a young man who maybe one day will take over his Dads farm.

All the farmers and farmers federations and others are complaining to me that Animal Welfare groups basically oppose any sort of farming.

I am saying – No that is incorrect.
Anybody reading your last post would argue that was a thinly veiled attack at farmers.

It is this very type of campaigning that backfires.

Please go back and read your comments as others will.
Your whole posts screams it`s wrong to eat any animals.
Then you go on to say that PETA Animals Australia Animal Liberation openly support the carcass trade on their web sites.
Yes I know but `nobody` believes them!!.
People are not tired of hearing the problems of farmers Nicky. They ARE tired of a bunch of animal nuts kicking a dog while he`s down.

Campaign everywhere but in the end only one thing is going to FIX it.
Help us to establish free range farms and build abattoirs to stop intensive farming and live exports.

PLEASE!

Hi again, PALE
My comments were not necessarily anti-farming, more in opposition to the cruelty practised by farming operations. I believe that any other business has to successfully compete in its environment without the multiplicity of government handouts that farmers receive - if they don't, they go under - that's life. If these people are as "down" as yu seem to believe, they should be availing themselves of the opportunities you offer.
My personal beliefs with regard to eating any animals are irrelevant. I do not belong to any groups, and to say that no-one believes the statements of those groups is simplistic. People DO believe them, because they are good at what they do. It is simplistic to argue that there is anything humane about rounding animals up and trucking them off to slaughterhouses. It is a shocking, brutal end to millions of innocent lives every day, and EVERY ONE of those animals feels terror, pain, and stress. Some may have had slightly better lives than others, but every sheep, every cow, every pig and every chicken has suffered immeasurably before it died. Humans just have the "upper hand" in the administration of cruelty and death. I make no apology for pointing that out, and if it moves some people out of their "comfort zones", having to think about what happened to their food before it got there, so be it.
I have seen animals fall from overloaded transporters because the farmer will not hire a second transporter in preference to cramming as many on as possible. I have carted water to animals left in barren paddocks because they won't feed or provide them with water. And that's fine, because they are just sheep, or cattle, not whales, dogs or cats. And the FARMERS are "down on their luck"? Give me a break. If they can't or won't take responsibility for their animals and their businesses, and they have to keep being bailed out by my tax dollars, I'm running short of sympathy. If they can't "hack it" then they shouldn't be responsible for living, feeling, sentient creatures.
Nicky

Nicky.
Yes but then if they all leave the country farms it plays into the hands of the even more cruel- The intensive farmers.
So we are far better off helping the free range farmers that we have left.
I understand where you are coming from beleive me.

People with your dedication pashion and brains are hard to find.
Some time ago I suggested to you a chain of veggie fast food stores.
You said you liked it.
I will supply you with the contacts.

Now to share some happy news with you for a change.

I also mentioned to you ages ago that we were keeping our fingers and everything else crossed for a certain person to be elected.
Do you remember? Well he was.

About five years ago I sat down on the floor in my ofice after not receiving even one reply to our three thousand letters sent out to Churches and Church Leaders to help us help the animals.
The mixture of saddness and anger at the same time was almost impossible to describe.
I heard the ding of my computer telling me there was a message.
I walked back to see I had received `one` reply.
God they say has a strange way of working.
If anybody had ever told me years ago I would have a MOU with The Muslim Leaders of Australia I would have said they were crazy.

I have learnt that man is man and good and bad walk amoungst all people.

I will do what must be done to help animals.
No Nicky we wont EVER stop people eating animals.
However God has given `you` a chance to really improve condtions.
I beleive you are one of those good people God has put in my path.

Sleep now Nicky and just know big things are happening quitley.

Know this. You have "already made a big difference to help the Animals"
Good night

Nicky – I think a lot your comments are way out of line and out of touch with reality.

Were did you get the idea that all farmers receive government hand outs? That’s absolute rubbish.

Its obviously something you are unable to deal with, but animals bred for human consumption are killed by the 10,000s every day in abattoirs. I believe they are killed as humanely as possible with a lot of effort put into minimizing stress before the event. They are grown as food, it has to be done. You may be able to find the exaggerated ‘horror’ stories of things gone wrong, and yes, sometimes things do go wrong, but don’t try and make out that every animal suffers horribly before they go. That’s just sensationalism. I suppose there is one exception – halal – that is cruel. I would rather they go to a licensed abattoir than some cut lunch cowboys backyard that’s for sure.

Alanpoi is absolutely right. We are doing them a favour by eating them. Cant see the use for to many cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, deer etc if they are not kept for food. The zoos can only take so many,a few pets maybe, the rest we could release into the wild? Then what would happen? They would grow into larger numbers in our native forests destroying the habitats of native animals, breed into larger numbers and then, in the search for food they would start to destroy the crops that this veggie planet would now rely on to live. We will leave up to you to decide how you are going to humanely control this situation, without killing them of course!

Jenna fyi

There are many Halal accredited Abatattoirs in Australia. All export Halal plants 'must comply with Australian law."
These animals are "pre stunned". Each Animal going through halal plants in Australia is one less going on ships alive.
Australia iS the biggest Live Animal exporter in the world.
The demand for halal meats is huge. its going to grow more and more.
We can work with the muslim People to make Australia the hub of Halal Meats oR we can icrease live exports and send them where there are no laws! for Animal Welfare.
I will leave you to choose. I already made that horrible choice a few years ago.
Once I did I found it best to work with muslim Leaders of Australia who have unlike church leaders and our Government actually spoken out about the real reasons for the cruel live export trade.
In every and all dealings with them they put animal welfare on the top of their agenda- unlike some.
As i said- We can either make Australia the hub of Halal which is good for Australia or watch more and more leave by ships.
All Australian laws ARE followed and PF comments are uninformed.
Not that I would expect a pig farmer to understand Halal because pork is forbidden to Muslims.
Begining to understand why- he he he

halal chicken abattoirs simply have the stunner removed from the slaughter line. I didnt see any one knocking them on the head and attempting to render them unconscious in any other manner before their throats were cut. Please explain ...

PF, I'm sorry, usually I am in sympathy with a good deal of what you have to say. But to say we are "doing animals a favour" by eating them is fatuous. If you did away with all your artificial breeding and insemination and left these animals alone, it seems unlikely that the animals you speak of would become plagues and the blight on the countryside you describe.
I just find something obscene about breeding baby animals just to cut their throats before they even get to grow up. Nor am I blinded by sensational reports as you seem to believe. You cannot tell me that the way terrified animals are rounded up, crammed onto trucks,and delivered to the tender mercies of slaughterhouse workers does not constitute very real suffering. However, I recognize that that is my personal opinion only (if shared by a few) and that none of it is going to change in my lifetime. Sometimes I get a little whimsical and think wouldn't it be great if there is a "judgment day" after all, and all these people come face to face with the millions of animals they have caused to be slaughtered.
Handouts? Drought relief, flood relief, reduced taxes on certain vehicles, Centrelink payments... need I go on?
But live exporters get the best of all in taxpayer handouts, with the waiving of AQIS fees by the Federal Government which then charges local "processors" (don't you love the euphemism for "slaughterers"?) massive amounts for AQIS services. Their activities are also shielded from public scrutiny by the Government's "Commercial in Confidence" provisions, a privilege not accorded to your average business. What is the motivation behind all this? Cultural cringe?
Nicky

I grow pigs for human consumption. If people didnt eat pigs, then I wouldnt grow pigs .. quite simple really Nicky.

As for artificial insemination, artificial breeding, hand outs, centrelink payments .. you have no idea what you are talking about, neither do I for that matter and I am a farmer.

Hi PF
I think it would be great if everyone just grew vegetables, grains etc., but again that is a personal opinion. Speaking of those, what do you think about the new CoP? It really means nothing for the pigs, does it? There was an ABC Rural News report last week in which a NSW farmer openly admitted his sow stalls were not compliant with the OLD code. But what happens? Nothing.
Your other comments suggest what I have suspected all along - you are an honest farmer who does the right thing by the taxpayer!
Cheers!
Nicky
Don't you hate it when you can only do two posts in 24 hours?

Not really Nicky, its 4 :)

I am very disappointed with the new code of practice. All that will change is an extra 20cm required for the length of sow stalls and supposedly, they are only to spend 6 weeks in them, but who is going to police that?
Of course there is to be allowance for deviation from this requirement based on the welfare of the sow would you believe! So if the farmer thinks she is stressed, bullied, at risk in anyway, he will be allowed to keep her in longer - nothing changes there really, those determined to use them will.

The sad part is, APL claim it as a victory against the very people that keep their businesses alive.

I dont think the COP will matter in the end. If people refuse to by meat from intensive farms that will be the end of them. Its already happening. We are the only piggery left in what was a large pig growing area and we are free range!

Nicky its 4 posts PF is correct.

Sorry Nicky

I think you might get your wish one day Nicky. I have a saying- its Cow Karma.

I know the great judgement day is on its way and it will come in the way of ships and planes with such savage rage within the people we have supplied animals to.

The sheer hate towards the people who turned their backs on these poor creatures will be 'within' our enermy.

I also think that `if and when` the lord comes back it will be also because he can no longer contain his anger at the way people have treated his creatures that he left in our trust.

After having said that I dont think it was a good plan and they should have more protection.

Now back to business. We all know who each other really is. I have always been honest to everybody as to my ID
We all know I support more Halal Plants and making Australia the Halal meat Supply to the world.
I know Nicky You dont approve of that. Tell you a little secret- nor do I , but I am going to do it because its for the animals and there is NO other way to stop live exports.

For twenty years Animal Groups have protested about live exports.
In that time it has grown stronger and stronger- and its going to grow a lot more.
You have to ask yourself how much you really want to make changes for the better for the animals. Then ask yourself what can we do.

If your really putting animals first and want to stop them from being sent on ships alive you will help me to introduce ME people to Australian farmers.

PF. To be honest with you I feel you are pretty happy with your farm and position in life and just post as a hobby.
Either way I agree with Nicky.
You sound like a good farmer and thanks! for all your helpful comments.

I doubt Nicky could get it right, her reading skills are pretty defunct along with her reasoning, and her anyalitical skills could do with a brushup, she seems to run on misplaced emotion and dubious "FACTS".

Dear Alanpoi, it would appear that anyone who disagrees with you labours under "misplaced emotions". I have a Masters' Degree and four units to complete for a Doctorate, with seven High Distinctions and several published research papers. I'll stack my literary skills against yours any day. Bring it on!
Nicky

That’s an interesting thing to say pale – that I only post here as a hobby. Could there be any other reason?

Hey, I was thinking of all you guys this morning while weighing and loading pigs to go to the abattoirs. I talk to my pigs a fair bit so I told them the story of how you lot think this is all very stressful for them. One little guy, that had just planted about the 20th outline of a muddy snout on my leg, looked up at me I said ‘ well what do you think’ I am quite fluent now in pig and he said “you stupid woman, I am a pig, what are you asking me for” Anyway, as they were loaded onto their brand new, purpose built trailer for the trip, I watched them. They did exactly the same as every other load of free range pigs (and I stress the free range here) do. They were so busy snouting around this new environment they forgot to wave goodbye.

On a more serious note – free range pigs are so used to huge variety in their environment that they seem to enjoy new things instead of being afraid of them. Unlike their factory reared cousins, that start their journey in absolute terror – and that’s just from seeing the sun for the first time.

PF
Sorry Reading back I can see it sounded different to what I meant.
Meant that as you are the only Free Range Pork Farmer to even try to educate the public - it was a pity you didnt want to go any further.
Meant You seem to be the ONLY one with that "energy" which is greatly appreciated.

But I didnt think you wanted to do Ag schools or speaches.




Thought you just want to do your own thing- posting on OLO and working hard on your farm.

Thats all I meant by it.

I apoligise if I offended you.

Wasnt my intention honestly.

No offence taken, just curious :)

Dear me - I must have offended Alanpoi. Not a word in response. In addition to stacking my literary skills against his/hers any day, I'll do the same with my research skills.
BTW - DO we know who everyone is? I've got to confess I haven't got a clue who anyone here really is.
Nicky

Nicky, I've worked out that paleif is Wendy, Antje or Taryn every one else is a mystery to me. Not that it makes a difference.

Why we should allow whaling:

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168478179/36#36