http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-speaks-of-gay-lobby-in-vatican-20130612-2o3a5.html.
Links do not last forever.
But this one tells that the Pope has admitted Gays have a power base in the holly city.
Now tell me, how can a Church trying desperately to stop gay weddings , know this and not act?
We, those of us who have not locked the horror story's out, know not just in our country but worldwide, this Church has actively covered up its great shame.
Not Catholic, not even a supporter but lets hope this Pope can clean up his Church or let it fold and die forever.

Belly

There is worse .... the microchip identification in the right hand for all Vatican employees

The hypocrisy of this criminal organisation knows no bounds. While they condemn gays on one hand, they condone the actions of pedophile priests world wide. This is the same criminal organisation that for centuries would torture and murder anyone who they perceived as a threat to their power. This is the same crimnal organisation that retarded the advancement of man for hundreds of years. In recent memory this "church" aided and abetted the Nazi's, by blindly condoning the murder of millions. Today they support totalitarian governments in South America and other parts of the world who suppress millions all in the name of god. Jorge Bergoglio can keep his sanctimonious clap trap to himself, he should spend his time explaining the on going criminality of his "church".
Good morning Belly.

Whilst of interest only to those who take prophesy seriously, the church of rome is destined for an interesting end

Prax if true, the right hand thing, it is weird.
My post today must confront,or I am a coward.
I all my life have heard ONLY SOME Protestants and their Church say Rome is the anti Christ.
I never truly thought that could be true.
Even as a girl of that faith took my pocket money then threw me over a fence some mornings, thought she liked me.
IF this Pope fails, would the world be better for the death of this home of pedophilia?
Are the re-emerging claims of money fraud and murderer even in part true.
We have ZERO right to say a single word about any faith if we stay silent about the Children we put in Gods care.
And no true servant of God would so badly betray that God.
Do the Catholic Priests who did/do this believe in God?

Belly

If you wish to check the relevance of the microchip, read Revelation 13:16. Scarey stuff if you follow that particular track but irrelevant otherwise. As I understand the majority bible student view, the church of rome is the false prophet, the antichrist is not yet obvious however it is more likely to be an individual rather than an organization. The gay bit reinforces existing beliefs re the false prophet. None of us can speak for catholic priests however its extremely difficult to comprehend their ignorance of whats going on right under their noses. I recently saw a live video of a parliamentary inquisition of the Australian boss-cocky in which he admitted the church had covered up incidents of pedophelia ... interestingly the faithful still flock to mass & address the priests as 'father' (another no-no, see Matthew 23:9). Hmmmmm

For what its worth, my experience has been that islamics in general have no more idea what the qu'ran says than followers of other religious franchises have of their respective holy book(s), so the issue certainly isn't unique to catholics. A while back I had a temporary assistant who proudly advised me he was islamic. When asked 'what happens to the 5 / 7 / 17 / 75 / whatever (depending on sect, interpretation, etc) virgins you mob supposedly get when you exterminate infidels after you've finished with the virgins ?? Needless to say, neither said islamic nor his imam had a clue !! I could have provided the answer supported by references however that would have undoubtedly started World War 3.

Jews maintained the pagans were wrong in worshiping many gods. Christians maintained that the Jews were wrong in not recognising Jesus as the Messiah. Islam maintained that Jews and Christians had it wrong in not recognising Allah and Mohammed as his prophet. Orthodox Christians maintained that Catholics were wrong in making the pope the head of the church. Protestant Christians maintained the same thing and went into business for themselves. In the east Hindus had their own narrative and followed many gods. Buddhists maintained that there are no gods but cycles of life and transmutation of life forms by reincarnation.

Could it be that they are all wrong? Could it be that all religions are nothing but human made mumbojumbo?

david f - religions are nothing but human made mumbojumbo

I believe you are at least 90% correct. The prime intent of religious franchises generally is glorification of a few 'experts' in order to subjugate the masses. I guess a few of the smaller groups might still follow the truth substantially but they would definitely be in the minority. There are numerous examples where franchise doctrine is in clear conflict with respective holy books, neither islam, catholocism, judaism, buddhism, confucianism nor the protestant franchises are much different in that respect. That said, this thread was started to discuss issues with the church of rome, & that mob are probably the worst offenders on the planet where intentional distortion for personal & institutional gain is concerned.

Could it be that what is called a gay lobby is nothing more than a group in the church who would like to see equal treatment for homosexuals? I hope there is a gay lobby working for equal rights for homosexuals, a woman's lobby working for equal rights for women and a lobby that recognises that people with other or no religion are just as entitled to equal rights as anybody else.

In case of a suspected crime one calls the cops. They are equipped to deal with such matters. I hope there is also a lobby in the Catholic church that supports calling the cops in cases of pedophilia or other crimes. The new pontiff has declared that pedophilia will be investigated and dealt with severely. He has not mentioned calling the cops so he really doesn't seem serious about the matter.

david f

Any religious franchise (leastwise one with mosaic roots), which condoned homosexuality would be in very clear breach of its charter. Note that islamics & jews still regard condemnation of homosexuality relevant today, its only catholicism & some (but not all) franchises derived therefrom which have joined the politically correct bandwagon. Whilst many consider political correctness infinitely more important than biblical principles, the fact remains that an organization ostensibly founded on biblical principles should reasonably be expected to conform to those principles. The fact that the church of rome doesn't, in no way negates the value of said principles to those who regard them important. Atheists at least take their principles seriously however one has to wonder what part of 'abomination' those who claim to be homosexual christians fail to comprehend.

David, Archy Pell was going to call the cops but he lost their number.
Religion was invented by women so men would have something to do on Sundays (in the days before pubs opened). The only religious text I believe in is "The Life of Brian"; "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy".
"Could it be that all religions are nothing but human made mumbojumbo?"
David what ever gave you that idea?
If you want to get an insight into what the Catholic clergy in Australia were like in the 1960's I can recommend the movie "The Devils Playground", a bit dated by today's standards, but not that far removed from the truth.

praxidice wrote: "... the fact remains that an organization ostensibly founded on biblical principles should reasonably be expected to conform to those principles. "

Dear praxidice,

If we followed biblical principles Saturday Sabbath observers would stone to death Sunday Sabbath observers and vice versa. Jesus encouraged his disciples to forsake their families to follow him. Luke 14:26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” I think it’s generally better for families to stay together and not be disciples of Jesus.

What does the Bible say about women? Deuteronomy 22:21 A girl who is not a virgin when she marries shall be stoned to death at the door of her father.

Most Bible believers have the humanity not to follow that evil.

Paul said, 1Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

If the Bible were followed not only would Gillard not be prime minister, but women would be allowed to neither vote nor teach. They would merely make babies and be quiet.

Most men and women love their mothers and respect and care for them but not Jesus.

John 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2:2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Most men would not be as rude to their mother as Jesus was to his. Most Christian and Jewish men are decent enough to ignore the evil way the Bible recommends treating women. I don’t see why they cannot also ignore the evil way it recommends treating homosexuals.

david f

The number of times homosexuality is condemned leaves no room for confusion as to what the Bloke upstairs thinks about the practice. Those who choose not to observe this prohibition are quite entitled to their beliefs however no religious franchise that supposedly regards the bible as inspired has any business catering to them. As for the ruling about women, surely you don't believe we wouldn't be infinitely better off had the red-headed witch not decided on a political career?? Come to think of it, we'd be better off if the RAbbott had never trained as a priest, but thats a story for another day. Most of your other points can be resolved by reference to original texts, translations in general leave a lot to be desired, especially considering that the majority are based on the catholic vulgate. There was in fact no intent that women could neither vote nor teach, they were only meant to be subservient to their husbands but were welcome to 'teach' in any other capacity. Note the number of significant females mentioned in connection with first century ecclesias (which were very different to what contemporary society regards as 'churches')

There have been homosexuals in all organisations throughout history.

The fact that the Catholic Church continues to demonise homosexuals and pushes a discrimination agenda against same sex couples' right to marry shows the hypocrisy.

When will these people who seem to hold a great deal of influence and authority find the compassion to recognise homosexuality as just one part of the human experience.

Why not gays in the Catholic Church? Why not women? Why not married men?

It does not make sense in a society that should value each individual regardless of gender, sexual orientation and marital status

pelican

While the church of rome can hardly be held up as a shining example of probity, the organization 'supposedly' follows biblical principles. We all know it has a rather cavalier attitude to the truth, but thats another issue again. If one is accept the bible as inspired, one then needs to that a point made multiple times is of some importance. Those who choose to follow another path are perfectly entitled to whatever beliefs they choose, but deciding to re-write whatever holy book simply it doesn't say what a certain group wants to believe isn't kosher. The church of rome has become its own worst enemy by ignoring a whole host of laws, including turning a blind eye toward pedophelia, allowing graven images, worshiping 'other gods', 'adding' to the truth eg the Trinity doctrine which is anything but biblical, etc etc.

Having lost all claim to credibility, the organization is now between a rock & a hard place. Archbishop Pell obviously has some awareness of the consequences of kiddyfiddling priests, likewise the pontiff. Now there is the news about a gay enclave, & added to the story a few months ago about the microchip implants, one has to wonder what will be done in an attempt to dig the church out of the hole it has dug for itself. I suggest that condoning homosexuality would only worsen the situation, but given the public attitude regarding pedophelia, who knows what smokescreen will be used to shield the church from what it probably sees as a greater evil ??

Dear praxidice,

The number of times homosexuality is condemned in the Bible tells us nothing about what god, if there is a god, thinks about it. The god of the Bible is an ugly, nasty brute who in the flood wiped out a good bit of life on earth because he didn't like what some people did. I am not sure there is a god, but I am sure that if there is a god he is not the god of the Bible.

david f

There are in fact many gods. In Australia there is no doubt that footbrawl & thugby are infinitely more relevant than any 'religious' entity. Have you noticed that thread about some girl supposedly upsetting whatever footbrawler ?? Its been going since the dawn of time with no indication it will ever end. I suggest that its indicative of a religion more in tune with the hoi-polloi than anything connected with any of the recognizable franchises.

Prax while I personalty will keep Muslims out of the thread I doubt we of Christian nations can throw stones at others.
Catholicism is the birth place for all Christian Churches.
Well aware of mark of the beast stuff, my doubt/question is are your claims of true, the chip in the right hand.
All types of Christians exist, and for the most part this non-believer thinks they do as much good as harm.
But not because it is Catholic not an insult to its followers, but fed by fact is it truly a Church of God.
Charges and the link tell of whole groups of Gays in the Vatican, trying to keep power,fraud and things we will find hard to believe come from heads of a Christian Church.

Threads do stop, and we have put many words and thoughts in to this subject so maybe it is for the best.
My intention was never to target Catholics.
I an ex Christian know the tall tales , about both Catholics and Protestant Churches.
But leaders not followers.
My last post here ends as I started after putting my self back in time to my then total love and commitment to Christianity.
Can any one, preach about the evils of gay lifestyle , be gay?
Can Child molesters within this Church believe in God? truly?
And does the confessional, its forgiveness of sin, play a good or bad role?
Last, it may sound like that radio host who asked that silly question but I thought this one valid
*Does a Church rule telling men they must be celibate attract the wrong men*?