My reading of the situation (sorry, Boaz, I can still only offer opinions; I shall leave "facts" to that thoroughly objective observer, Mark Steyn) is that Turkey has for the past hundred years been at the leading edge of Muslim enlightenment.

Long may they continue to be so. Let us also hope that Germany, who for years has grown rich on the backs of the Turkish Gastarbeiter, step back from their opposition to Turkey's inclusion in the EU.

I worked in Istanbul briefly back in the late eighties, and met some of the wisest and most gentle business managers of any country I have ever worked in. Their religion was worn lightly, but sincerely - a little like our Ahmed Fahour http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/04/29/1177787974554.html - and their level of honesty and integrity in business dealings would put the average Australian company to shame.

As I understand it, the country is 99% Muslim. Since they are constitutionally secular, this means that you have a million Muslims who believe sufficiently strongly that the state should not involve itself in trying to make them more Muslim, hit the streets to say so.

A sidebar on the numbers. The Turkish armed forces have always been in the vanguard of protecting the secular constitution. I guess it helps in situations like this to have them on your side...

Dear Pericles, I absolutely recommend a careful reading of the article by Gurfinkiel.

If you went to Gaza and you met this man(below), perhaps you might have a different opinion of the emerging Islamism in Turkey.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1178020746583&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Sheik Ahmad Bahr, acting Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, declared during a Friday sermon at a Sudan mosque that America and Israel will be annihilated and called upon Allah to kill Jews and Americans "to the very Last One". Following are excerpts from the sermon that took place last month, courtesy of MEMRI.

Ahmad Bahr began: "You will be victorious" on the face of this planet. You are the masters of the world on the face of this planet. Yes, [the Koran says that] "you will be victorious," but only "if you are believers." Allah willing, "you will be victorious," while America and Israel will be annihilated. I guarantee you that the power of belief and faith is greater than the power of America and Israel. They are cowards, who are eager for life, while we are eager for death for the sake of Allah. That is why America's nose was rubbed in the mud in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Somalia, and everywhere.

Quran 9:30 "Jews believe Uzair is son of Allah, Christians believe the Messiah is Son of Allah, MAY ALLAH DESTROY THEM, they are deluded"

BAHR's final prayer.

"Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one. Oh Allah, show them a day of darkness. Oh Allah, who sent down His Book, the mover of the clouds, who defeated the enemies of the Prophet defeat the Jews and the Americans, and bring us victory over them."

Do any of us besides me see the 'connection' between the Quran and this mans prayer?

I can clearly show the error of the KKK and any racist "Christian" group from Scripture, I cannot find 'theological' fault in terms of Islam with that man's prayer. It is entirely consistent with the Quran.

Boaz, I have cautioned you before about relying upon sources that might be, shall we say, not entirely impartial.

On the topic of Islam, I'd rate the Jerusalem Post as coming into this category.

The reality is that you can always find articles on the Internet to support your point of view, whatever that might be. And in this case, Steyn and Gurfinkiel both have axes to grind. As indeed do you. So merely quoting somebody else's opinion, however prettily expressed, does not actually move your argument forward.

>>If you went to Gaza and you met this man(below), perhaps you might have a different opinion of the emerging Islamism in Turkey<<

The topic here is still Turkey, Boaz. Not the unconnected ravings of a "top Hamas official" in a Sudan mosque.

And for the record, as I pointed out earlier, Turkey is 99% Islamic already.

It isn't "emerging", Boaz. It is fully "emerged". And a million of those Islamic people see fit to take to the streets to protest against de-secularization. Supported by the military.

What are the ravings of one nutter in a mosque compared to that open air demonstration in a major city?

Boaz,

Your right Boazy. There's one billion Muslims in the world and we're all brain washed and preprogrammed to want to take over the world. Right now the World Wide Muslim Conspiracy Society is working on a chemical formulae which will change Christians into Muslims when ever there is a full moon. We're coming to get you Boazy. We're coming to get you. Turkey being a part of NATO and an Ally of the US and Israel is just a clever trick on our part. Soon we'll have you facing Mecca when you pray and giving up on pork products.

Boazy, don't you ever get tired of all your racist diatribes?

" I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. " - Mohandas Gandhi

Peppy and Pericles.. its time for a Pep talk.(nice aliteration:)

When I say 'emerging' re Turkey, I'm referring to the contentious struggle between the Anatolians and Rumelians. (refer Garfinkeil)

His account has the ring of truth about it, and he is not actually grinding any particular axe from what I can see.

So, while Turkey may be '99% Islamic' already, the more important question is 'which kind' of Islam? From what I read, there is a struggle between the more radical Islamists of Anatolia who feel aggrieved over the Rumelian ascendency, and who now, through demographic expansion and increased population are seeking to alter that.

So, in answer to the question 'why now' re the large rally, I suggest (as Gurfinkiel does) it might be connected to that historical idealogical and ethnic dichotomy and the sense by one side that 'things are about to change forever' in a way which will not suit them.

Peppy... the Muslim conspiracy is real, and true, but it resides in the minds of the likes of Al Qaeda and the Muslim brotherhood and their ilk. If they came to your door and said "Peppy, the brothers need your support for the cause" and you knew that they had already killed a number who refused to support them... would your 'moderateness' give you the strength to deny them?

If they did do that, you might need to quickly consider the Islamic punishment for 'apostacy' as I'm sure that is how they would describe anyone who did not do their bidding mate.
cheers.

Boazy,

I have the perfect solution. Let's get all the extremist Christians and all the extremist Muslims and KILL EM ALL. Think of the beauty of it. Peace and harmony for thousands of years. Of coarse you'd be dead, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to pay for peace and quiet.