I am the owner of a percentage of a cow. The farmer cares for the cow, milks and organises delivery of my share of the milk she produces. I have made an informed decision to consume this milk as i am unable to adequately care for a cow in the city but a member of the SA parliament is attempting to take the farmer to court for selling raw milk. He doesn't do this.
Surely there are more important issues to spend taxpayers dollars on than trying to stop informed consumers consuming their own raw milk!
If anybody has information regarding the beneficial microorganisms in raw milk and their ability to contribute to the colonisation of the gastrointestinal tract to assist with digestion it may be useful to help stop this restriction in our food choices.

Wong, what happens if you become il from consuming what you call raw milk?

My tip is you will be off to the doctor, somewhat at the tax payers expense.

Unfortunately there are many chances whereby raw milk can become contaminated, especially if not collected, stored or handled correctly.

These possibilities are amplified when the raw milk is transported to, and consumed anywhere other than where the milk was produced and collected.

While I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with consuming raw milk, it is simply the fact that it is not being consumed where it is produced that causes the concern.

There is also a law against consuming meats that have not been processed in an approved facility.

While there is no law against home kills, in the right zones, it is illegal to allow any of that meat to be consumed anywhere other than where it was processed.

This is all for health reasons, and I assume the raw milk situation laws are along the same grounds.

Laws against mass production of UN pasteurized milk is another issue and one that also protects/effects industry rights.

Now having said that, there would be no law against you turning up each morning with your corn flakes and pouring your raw milk on them, so long as you consume it where it was collected.

In small cases, the law is there to protect people's health, nothing else

rehctub

A person can purchase 'raw' milk quite easily, whether direct from a farm or as 'bath milk' from the health food shops which carry it. I'm fully aware of the claims ostensibly based on 'scientific' evidence that anyone consuming such a dangerous substance will almost certainly die an unimaginably horrible death within hours of its consumption, however its interesting to note that human beings have been drinking 'raw' milk since time immemorial and since at least some of us are still on the topside of the earth, there appears to be reasonable grounds to suspect it isn't the LD90 poison the 'experts' would have us believe.

>>A person can purchase 'raw' milk quite easily, whether direct from a farm or as 'bath milk'<<

Raw milk isn't legal to sell as a food product (except maybe directly from the farm) for the reasons outlined by rechtub. As long as it's not being sold as a food product - as a beauty product for example - then a different set of rules apply. Your farmer just needs to tell the court he isn't selling the milk for human consumption.

Cheers,

Tony

Tony Lavis - Raw milk isn't legal to sell as a food product

Whats 'legal' got to do with it ?? Tell me if you can what percentage of motorists religiously observe speed limits ?? Its quite obvious that the average sheeple believes a 100k sign represents the absolute MINIMUM speed as which one must travel. Likewise, what percentage of taxpayers NEVER fiddle their tax return ?? What percentage of internet users NEVER download something illegal ??

Laws are meant to be broken, thats why our moronic elected officials write the $#&T$%)&()#$ things :) :) :)

My father had dairies in Bellingen in the 1940s and 1950s; later in Richmond in the 1960s.

We had the town milk run in Bellingen NSW where we had two horse drawn milk carts which delivered early morning milk fresh from the cows less than one hour. We never had a complaint. Dad would start milking at five am and by six the first cart would be on the road and by seven am the next cart would be on the road; each equipt with two ten gallon cans and with pint and quart dippers. Later we had a utility to do the job. We lived adjacent to the local milk factory but no milk went to the factory.

In the 1960s we lived beside the town of Richmond and supplied the Milk Board with all our milk. Locals came to get fresh milk but when it was discovered that we were supplying direct to the locals action was taken to stop this. We had to comply or loose our registration.

Testing of milking herds for contagious diseses found that terbuculoses and brusolosus were found in milking herds so it was risky to supply unpasturised milk. Any animal found with the disease were slaughtered so as not to affect other animals in the herd.

As a family we always drank fresh milk from the dairy, but later brought the milk to boiling point before using it.

Josephus

I've never lived in the Bellingen area although I've passed through it countless times from the 1960s onward. Pretty place, I might even have moved there if it wasn't for the perceived risk of flooding. Can't recall hearing as much as a peep about residents carking in in droves due to tuberculosis or indeed anything else though.

It is not permissible to sell raw milk for human consumption in Australia, because raw milk carries an increased risk of harm to humans from organisms that might contaminate the raw milk. Salmonella, E. coli, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium and others. In 1976 there was an outbreak of Salmonella poisoning around Whyalla in South Australia affecting more than 500 people caused by raw milk.

Consumed on farm, it carries a lower risk because the bacterial numbers are smaller, but even there it is not without risk and there were cases of illness in 1999 and 2000 in South Australia caused by raw milk consumption on farms. Once the milk is transported and stored, bacterial numbers can rapidly increase if there is a rise in the milk temperature. Once this happens, the numbers of bacteria grow exponentially and the risk of disease is high.

FSANZ has collated data on raw milk risks in Australia and internationally. http://archive.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/P1007%20PPPS%20for%20raw%20milk%201AR%20SD1%20Cow%20milk%20Risk%20Assessment.pdf

Yes we can stick a health label on lots of restrictive practices, where government & industry get together to prevent competition from the individual.

Got to protect Woollies & Coles profit margins don't you know. How are they going to sell all that imported food, if uppity farmers go into competition with them.

I remember a while back, when the Bundaberg tomato farmers were getting less than the cost of the carton & freight for their tomatoes sent to Brisbane markets.

The authorities turned a blind eye to most of them selling some from the farm gate, to get enough money for other food, but one went too far & got sat on.

He, dreadful criminal that he was, loaded his truck with cartons of the things, & drove to Hervey Bay, where he sold them to the public. He was arrested. Hadn't paid the council for the right permit.

He set up in private property, but they got him there too for something. I don't think they could pull the health one there, but what ever it was, they stopped the people of Hervey bay getting cheep tomatoes. They still paid $4.50 a kilo.

Oh & you had better watch that raw milk, it's dangerous stuff. Yes it is, no kidding. When I was milking a couple after school, you only had to miss the bucket & get one squirt on your boot to find that out. In just a few weeks, boots that would usually last years would rot out, almost before your eyes.

So drink the stuff if you must, [I love it], but don't get it on you, unless you're made of something tougher than leather.

Truth be known, it wasn't an adder, [or a snake in the grass], that killed Cleopatra, it was actually all that bathing in ass milk that did her in.

Don't the health food shops sell this product as bath milk?

Let the people eat milk the way they choose. If you own a cow you cannot stop people from drinking the animal's milk. If a person gets sick they get treated at a hospital which is funded by all taxpayers and so what.

People also smoke, drink too much, get into fights, eat too much food, have car accidents, trip over tree roots, have workplace accidents, all putting a so called 'burden' on the health system.

I say again ...so what. The health sytem is there to work for us with all our human foibles and failings. Just let people be.

pelican,

Governments get involved because there are health risks. In the same way they get involved with food handling, anti-smoking campaigns, anti-drinking campaigns, road safety campaigns, healthy eating campaigns, domestic violence campaigns and so on. It is in the Governments interests to invest in prevention in these areas, rather than having to spend on hospitals to pick up the sick afterwards. 500 people falling ill from consuming raw milk is no small matter and requires Government intervention to protect the consumer.

Wong welcome.
Sorry about that, as the once country party red necks once shouted across the floor of Parliament.
Some of these so and so,s have never milked a cow.
Let it stand while you wash your hands and get it in ya.
But be aware it will taste different, like real milk!
Full cream no added water!

Josephus, there is little wrong with consuming raw milk, but the good old days of the 60's are gone I'm afraid.

I was a sixties baby, and one thing we did back then, that is now frounded upon, is we ate dirt.

Kids these days are brought up in this sterile environment, and parents don't dare expose thier kids to any nasties.

Now days, so many kids have some allergy to something. Kids can't even take peanut butter sandwiches to school anymore for god sake.

Like it or not, we are now the nanny state, where laws are made to protect the few, yet EFFECT the majority.

Another problem we have is globalization, whereby we now have these SUPER BUGS, bugs that simply were not here in the sixties.

Another reason behind our food safety laws, is lawyers.

They just can't wait to sue some government department, or supplier/retailer, usually in the name of a quick buck.

Unfortunately the good old days are gone, day when there was no such thing as a use by date.

Welcome to our new world.

Agronomist, it's not only temperature that is the concern, it's also general hygiene, as some farmers would deliver their raw milk in a two gallon bucket if they could get away with it.

Hanging been in the raw food Industry most of my life, I can see the benefits behind food safety laws.

Again, i have no problem with people wanting to consume raw milk, so perhaps consumers of raw milk need to sign an indemnity, so at least the tax payer won't be out of pocket should they become il.

rehctub

My view, cynical as it may be, is that the primary intention of legislation generally is subjugating the sheeple. The parasites at the top of the pile consider they have a right to rule via fair means or foul. Whether or not any piece of legislation has a beneficial effect is secondary to the insatiable appetite for power and control.

"sheeple"

You a CTer praxidice?

Agronomist

I'm just a cynic who discovered long ago that politicians & gubmunts are inherently corrupt (power corrupts and all that). We could easily control those parasites & demand they honour the Westminster principle 'government OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people' however as a mob we are infinitely too apathetic & compliant, which is exactly why we get the wool pulled over our eyes & constantly get fleeced ... hence 'sheeple'

Dear Rehctub,

<<Again, i have no problem with people wanting to consume raw milk, so perhaps consumers of raw milk need to sign an indemnity, so at least the tax payer won't be out of pocket should they become il.>>

YES! YES! YES!

BRING IT ON, I CAN'T WAIT, WHERE DO I SIGN?

The root of all evil in this country is the AMA guild and their Medicare, if only there was a way to opt out: I don't want a number, or to be considered a number, I don't want anyone else to pay for my medical bills (if I choose to use medical/doctor-services in the first place), certainly I wouldn't agree to use other people's stolen money for my own expenses. As much as we hate governments, in this case even the Australian government is a hostage to that mob.

I only want my freedom to have raw milk, ride a bicycle without a helmet and a few other similar things that are none of anyone else's business.

Where do I get this form from?

Yuyutsu - Where do I get this form from?

No such thing I'm afraid .... YOU VILL DO VAT VE SAY !!

....Yuyutsu - Where do I get this form from?

No such thing I'm afraid .... YOU VILL DO VAT VE SAY !!
Posted by praxidice, Sunday, 9 June 2013 7:17:33 AM

No Prax, your slightly wrong, as Australia and it's nanny state laws are the problem.

rehctub

same only different :) :) :)

as you say its definitely a nanny state, all of them for that matter

not that it bothers me unduly, I've always believed laws are made to be broken, after all its only illegal if you get caught

Dear Praxidice,

<<I've always believed laws are made to be broken, after all its only illegal if you get caught>>

Living in fear of being caught raises your blood pressure.

If the intent of the law is to care for our health, then there must be a law prohibiting government from making laws that dangerously raise people's blood pressure... that's practically most laws.

Yuyutsu

Getting the upper hand on muppets is sweet revenge :) I do try to not get upset by their inanity however it certainly appears the prime objective of muppets in general is dreaming up the most nonsensical proposals human ingenuity can devise .... or could it be they have a line open to Old Nick himself ??

In the same vane, there is a boating safety regulation requiring a yacht going off shore to be equipped with A danbuoy [a tall stick with flag on top, which floats upright], attached by a long length of rope to a life ring. This combined implement of the devil is to be thrown after any crew who may fall overboard, to mark their position.

When carried accessibly on the stern of a boat, the rope on these things tends to get washed around by waves, tangling around everything, so not only can they not be thrown anywhere, but the rope represent a booby trap out to trip anyone venturing near it.

Required for racing, mine was stored well up forward below deck where it was less dangerous.

Many years back I left Sydney harbor single handed on my yacht, bound for Noumea. Some obnoxious official of some water authority, [not police] chased after me in a large expensive tax payer funded boat, & tried to stop me. My danbuoy was not in place, so my boat was dangerous, & I was to be fined or apprehended, or probably both.

Pointing out that I was single handed, with no one to throw the thing at me if overboard just annoyed him. Suggesting he send any fine/correspondence care of the Sunset Marina Noumea really got him upset.

When he threatened to tow me back to port, I mentioned he was dealing with a British registered ship, & I as master was entitled, & in fact required to protect it & it's crew using what ever force I found necessary. I think they might have tweaked I was armed, & after another 10 minutes of unpleasantness they found some reason to return to the harbor.

With this type of fool given some authority, is it any wonder we have come to really dislike public servants.

Hasbeen - With this type of fool given some authority, is it any wonder we have come to really dislike public servants.

I'm glad to see its not only moi who can't abide fools with a rule book :)

Something everyone should do at least once in their life

Get three dictionaries, a Collins, an Oxford & a Macquarie & place Post-It notes in each, marking the words 'public' & 'servant'

Visit some muppet and advise the clown you need to do business, but since he / she / it / whatever clearly doesn't comprehend the relationship between themself & the client, you feel the need to elucidate. Ask said muppet what dialect of english they prefer, ie english, north american or australian. Proffer the relevant dictionary & insist muppet reads the meaning of the words marked by Post-It notes

General idea is to ask 'now do you understand the relationship between us .. you are my servant, you work for me, you are not some uppity tin god ... understand, capisce, savvy, comprehendez ??'

Response is invariably worth framing ... eyes pop out on stalks & muppet is unable to utter a word :) :) :)

Thank you all for your comments. I'm still searching for information on the benefits of raw milk as a source of beneficial bacteria to prevent/reduce the increasing problems society seems to be having with colonization by pathogenic bacteria.
An interesting link.
http://www.probiotictherapy.com.au/pages/what_are_probiotics.html
I am hearing increasingly about young people becoming ill (extremely so, to the point of death) due to an imbalance of organisms in their gut. Treatment with massive doses of "strong" antibiotics seems to be the only option at present. What about when resistances are built to these antibiotics! Wouldn't it be better to prevent this in the first place. Wouldn't it be better to use the "precautionary principle".

The chain of supply back to the source for any illness is very simple when a member of a Cow Share Program. Direct to the man who cares for our cow unlike that from the local supermarket. I've had no illness since 10/2012 and no sour milk either!

Taken from the link provided by Agronomist
http://archive.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/P1007%20PPPS%20for%20raw%20milk%201AR%20SD1%20Cow%20milk%20Risk%20Assessment.pdf
"Australian specific data on pathogen prevalence for herds and for individual animals is scarce, as is any concentration data for pathogen levels within Australian raw milk. Consequently, international data has been used for these inputs."
Do they apply here?

"Australian specific data on pathogen prevalence for herds and for individual animals is scarce, as is any concentration data for pathogen levels within Australian raw milk. Consequently, international data has been used for these inputs. In the case of herd prevalence for EHEC, the majority of data has been obtained from surveys of herds in continental Europe and North America. The two Australian studies for the prevalence of EHEC in cows had mean prevalence’s of 9.5% and 0% compared with an average of 4.6% for the international studies. The inclusion of the international studies was to maximise the uncertainty for this important model input."

The small number of Australian studies come up with values similar to that of international studies. So these values probably do apply in Australia.

When raw milk was sold door to door years ago, consumers were advised to bring milk to the boil and simmer for a time before using. That advice applied particularly to the young and any whose health was compromised.

Buyers of 'natural' foods come from a segment of the population that can be expected to be litigious.

Sellers of raw milk must be courageous.