As I have stated before I have a very fundamentalist christian daughter who thinks television is a sinful influence and would like it banned and only every listens to christian music for the same reason. She also did not agree with the pulling of the plug on that poor girl who had laid brain dead on a bed in America for 20years because she might wake up and accept Jesus and so her soul would be saved. I try to put counter views to her to keep her more moderate. Such as why did God allow us to discover ways to put ourselves to sleep and die peacefully if he doesnt approve of it.
Nobody has ever been able to directly ask Jesus about this because these drugs werent around when he walked the earth. Surely when the girl came to the gates of heaven he could give her the choice then of accepting him and being saved why does she have to lay on a bed for ever not being able to choose either way.

I believe that Jesus would be a hell of a lot more sane and sensible in his demands than what human beings think. He might say you fools!why did you think you had to die in agony when we could have sorted this out when you got here.

I just cant accept some of the silly ideas man has about suffering.
Its seems to be more about some guilt complex man has, than anything to do with God. Anyway what's between a man or woman and their God is between them, it is for God to judge that person not mankind.

Peppy-;

Thanks for your reply, I have just seen it after writing that article about my daughter. I guess people like you and I who believe strongly in secular governments will just have to prevail and convince those who dont. Like I have pointed out the dangers of electing non secular governments to her and made her think that it might not end up being the utopia she thinks its will be because of the fallability of religious leaders.

Sharkfin,

Why don't you tell your daughter to read the Old Testament. The Book of Kings would be a good start. The Government of ancient Israel was non-secular. It was a disaster. Civil wars and rebellions, etc. The marriage of Church and State didn't save them from the wrath of God, slaughter and conquest, etc. When God or Allah or Buddah or whichever Supreme God comes down to take over the government I'll change my mind. But until then I reckon secular is best for everyone.

Peppy
the government of Ancient Israel during the times of the Kings was one of alternating between idolatry and Obedience to Yahweh, but the theocratic element was seldom seen, in fact ...Israel having a king at all was a compromise and that itself symbolized a rejection of Yahweh_as_king.

They started to have kings because they wanted to be "like the other nations".. sound familiar?

The prophets were always calling them to account. have a read of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Amos and others.

But this thread is about 'Apostacy in Islam' and far from me being an intellectual coward, I reject that totally.

I showed you, in unmistakable terms by confirming what was said by GW about the 5 major schools of Islamic Jurisprudence that the penalty for apostacy is DEATH.

Now..if that does not put the shivers up the backs of any Australian who sees growth in the 'moderate' religion of Islam, then their thinking is seriously lacking.

If just ONE school claimed that, we could look and say "OH..they are just the whacko extremists" but no, its all 5.

This can only have one meaning. When Islam is in power, the penalty for apostacy will be.....death. By 'In power' I mean in the world, in such a way as not to feel threatened by other powers such as the USA or UK.

Let me repeat for you the true hate in this world, far worse than even the Nazis. The prayer (in the past couple of days) by the acting speaker of the Palestinian Authority Ahmad Bahr

MUSLIM'S PRAYER.
"Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one. Oh Allah, show them a day of darkness. Oh Allah, who sent down His Book, the mover of the clouds, who defeated the enemies of the Prophet defeat the Jews and the Americans, and bring us victory over them.

My "where is the hate" meter is bouncing off full scale deflection on "Islam".

Do I 'hate' that ideology? you bet I do, the prayer just shows 'why'.

Boazy,

You crack me up. I can always rely on you for a good laugh. Without a doubt your illogical rants are the most amusing and entertaining posts I've seen anywhere. I hope you never leave this site, cause I reckon without you're crazy diatribes this place just wouldn't be as much fun.

1/ I know trying to explain the rules of logic to you is like trying to explain the Theory of Relativity to a plank of wood but here goes. Your whole argument collapses because you obviously don't understand what the difference is between secular and non-secular states. I was comparing secular with non-secular while your comparing non-secular states with other non-secular states. I know you won't understand this but I can't be bothered arguing any more with you.

2/ The only thing you've proven "in unmistakable terms" is that your a bigot. Trying to prove that extremist Christians are better than extremist Muslims is like trying to prove it's better to shoot yourself in the head than in the heart. Both end up with the same result in the end.

OK. Now it's your turn to rave and rant

My goodness peppy... I'm glad I'm 'entertaining'... now I can make another contribution to the 'meaning of life' thread started by someone else.

I can see I'm talking beyond your level :) hahah.. see..I can do it too. "Plank of wood" aargh... I need to begin a new "List" of "Peppies insults" to add to Pericles and CJ morgans.

Lets stick to the topic, you might be able to follow it then. (I can do this 4eva old son)

Apostasy in Islam.. I'll ask you a simple question or 3. (to make it easy on that clearly overtaxed mind of yours 0_- )

1/ Is it a fact or not, that 5 major schools of Islamic Jurisprudence agree that the penalty is death for apostasy?

2/ Given that the answer to 1 is 'yes', don't you feel this is a reason for people to be concerned about the growth of 'Islamic' power?

3/ Do you agree that in terms of the fundamentals of Christianity (Bible) there is nothing even remotely comparable with the Islamic punishment for leaving the faith? (refer my earlier posts for details/evidence) cold shoulder verses carving off a mans head.

Finally on the issue of 'Christian Extremists'. If I find one (and I did...Pat Robertson who suggested Chavez be assasinated) who advocates anything unbiblical, I'll rebuke him/her in the Lords name. (I emailed Robertson, who duely apologised...I'm sure it was only because of 'my' email :)

Have you written to the Palestinian Authority to denounce Bahr's prayer? If you do, make sure you show how it is 'un'Islamic. But be careful, they might write back with 'stronger' verses to justify it.

Here endeth the 'rant'.