Leigh,

As if you'd get the same answer for every question if you asked 10 different Christians or Hindus or Jews?

And of coarse because I made a typo I must be a liar. Totally honest people never make typing errors.

Peppy,
I like your work.
Keep writing on OLO, we need to hear more from people with your background.

hi all,

uh grin had to look it up:

"Apostasy
(apo, from, and stasis, station, standing, or position).

The word itself in its etymological sense, signifies the desertion of a post, the giving up of a state of life; he who voluntarily embraces a definite state of life cannot leave it, therefore, without becoming an apostate. Most authors, however, distinguish with Benedict XIV (De Synodo di£cesanâ, XIII, xi, 9), between three kinds of apostasy: apostasy a Fide or perfidi£, when a Christian gives up his faith; apostasy ab ordine, when a cleric abandons the ecclesiastical state; apostasy a religione, or monachatus, when a religious leaves the religious life. The Gloss on title 9 of the fifth book of the Decretals of Gregory IX mentions two other kinds of apostasy: apostasy inobedientiæ, disobedience to a command given by lawful authority, and iteratio baptismatis, the repetition of baptism, "quoniam reiterantes baptismum videntur apostatare dum recedunt a priori baptismate". As all sin involves disobedience, the apostasy inobedientiæ does not constitute a specific offense. In the case of iteratio baptismatis, the offence falls rather under the head of heresy and irregularity than of apostasy; if the latter name has sometimes been given to it, it is due to the fact that the Decretals of Gregory IX combine into one title," www.newadvent.org

well its a bit hard isnt it, if someone leaves their faith, or taught religious upbringing....
to be threatened with death for same....?

I guess those not bought up as a Muslim would not understand,

I would make a wild guess that if I was bought up in a Muslim
country, with this particular traditional as well teaching,
I would be scared stiff

religion should not make you scared stiff,
JHH

in a simple term, government and religions dont mix.....

JHH

gw.. I'm so thrilled that you took the trouble and effort to read up the Wiki entry.. PAT on the BACK :)

Peppy, also glad that you are willing to engage here and to some extent 'endure' a rather ongoing attack in 'Islam' from those such as myself. One reason we write here is that one cannot write or question Islam seriously in places like 'Muslim Vilage' its just not on. Well, the their information, it IS on here.. where freedom exists.

Please look up the Wiki Article and read very closely. You quoted a Quranic verse, but the bulk of tradition in my view outweighs that one single verse.
Notice that it is not some Western Scholar who states that male apostates should be executed, but the 4 major schools of Islamic thought. This is the key. You may have heard the saying "The concensus of the Muslims" with regard to issues of doctrine, well.. that 'IS' the concensus.

Its fine with me for you to hold a moderate and clearly unthreatening understanding of Islam for your own sake, what worries me far more than the friendly likes of you, is that group who follow the 4 schools or jurisprudence.

JHH..glad u dug around in Catholic doctrine. for all of us wondering what happens to Christian apostates, I recommend googling it, and reading the new testament. Look up "Demas" in the letters of Paul, see how his life unfolded.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=58&chapter=4&verse=14&version=31&context=verse
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=64&chapter=1&verse=24&version=31&context=verse
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=62&chapter=4&verse=10&version=31&context=verse

NEW TESTAMENT TEACHING:
TITUS 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

NOTE.
Social/Spiritual exclusion is the only prescribed New Testament punishment for Apostates.

MOHAMMAD'S TEACHING.http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/084.sbt.html#009.084.057
"If anyone changes his Islamic religion, kill him"

Peppy, the 4 schools of Islamic law include this hadith as their basis.

David,

Unfortunately I'm busy and don't have time to reply in detail at the moment but let me just say if you're trying to argue that Christianity is a gentler religion than Islam I think you're full of it. We can swap religious verses all day long and it won't prove anything. The reality is that extremists of any religion are brutal and will take a hard line regardless of what the scriptures say. If we followed the Bible we'd still have slaves and be killing homosexuals and women who weren't virgins when they married. The only way to stop this sort of thing is to take the power out of the hands of the extremists by separating church and state, therefore making it illegal to kill people for religious crimes. We have successfully done this in the West and are attempting to do the same in the rest of the world. If we did not have a separation of Church and State in the West I have no doubt the religious fanatics in various Christian Churches would be calling for the death of apostates.

Peppy..
I quite agree about Church and State separate. But where I depart from you is on your assessment that "extremists will do what they like no matter what their scriptures say".

Peppy, you need to compare any supposed 'Christian' behavior historically or now, to the New Testament. When you do, all of your criticisms listed will evaporate. They are valid for WRONG understandings of the Documents, but not for a true understanding.

ISLAM. This is where it becomes serious. The true understanding of Islam DOES in fact allow for and promote violent aggression.
No you say ?

Question: "How did Mohammed 'understand' Surah 9:29"?

9:29 "YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Out of context? try this.

Hadith Muslim book 1:29,30,31 where all show how Mohammad understood that verse.

Book 001, Number 0031:
It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: I have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the messenger (from the Lord) and in all that I have brought.

This is further supported in Bukhari where in totally different circumstances, a man in Omar's army is explaining WHY they are attacking the people.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/004.053.386
Read the whole hadith please. (number 386)

Al Mughira says to them: "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute)"

The CONTEXT here, is where Umar is discussing which countries to INVADE.
You will not find any such scriptural injunction for Christians to fight/invade to enforce belief(Please try). If they do, they are WRONG.

Get some reinforcements from Muslim Village cobber.