I thought it might be fun to have a discussion on
the chances of success - of the two men who want to challenge
our two-party preferred political system come September.

Clive Palmer has announced that he's launching a
political party and wants to be PM.

Then we have Federal MP Bob Katter's - Australia Party
which polled 20 % in much of North Queensland. Which
may leave Katter with the balance of power in the Upper
House after the next election.

Does anyone think that these guys have a chance in really
making an impact at the next election?

And, are our electorates more splintered and diverse
then the two-party preferred polls show?

Clive Palmer is all about increasing his wealth and power,while Bob Katter is passionate about reward for effort at all stratas of society.

I've met Bob and he seems to be a genuine human being.

The only thing I know about Clive Palmer is that he made what seemed to me a sensible suggestion about asylum-seekers arriving by boat. He reasoned, these guys are paying 10 and 20 thousand for a boat fare to Australia. Why not just let them fly in and apply for refugee status, and pay for the costs of their own processing? If they are determined to be refugees, grant them the visa in accordance with the international obligations Australia has undertaken; and if they are not, fly them out at their own expense. Treat them like human beings, in other words, a concept obviously foreign to the Laborals.

I think it’s great.

Providing it is not another Clive sideshow it will further fragment the red blue duopoly.

The best result we can expect in my opinion is a hung parliament in September.

Wouldn’t it be great if at that point we could move to a true democratic proportional system? It would be in the interest of all parties with the exception of the red and blue team to do so. It would be in the best interest of the country also.

We would catch up to those mongrel Kiwi’s as well. Then all we have to do is get the log of wood (a pointless exercise involving violence) and let the gays marry (a concept I struggle with).

The polls don’t show the splintering because of the two party preferential system. Change the question and you change the answer.

I say go for it. HANG THE BARSTARDS

Both, if Palmer gets his party up, will take National and Liberal votes first.
And votes from each other.
We may see senate seats, and not much more than two lower house seats go to them,
They like old Joe,s run at power hurt most the side both come from.
Not enough other than senate to have impacts.
Greens can be compared to both, in the effect they may have, in time.
As a Liberal win looks clear, two maybe three elections down the track, disaffected voters may give them more power.
Australia, in my view is not going to be kind to small party,s this time around, including the greens.

Yes, why not? This country needs new ideas, and Palmer has a can-do approach which should enhance debate.

Belly, who are you now comparing The Greens to now, Palmer and Katter.
The only thing we Greens have in common with those 2 is we are all on the same planet. No, sorry, we Greens are firmly planted on Mother Earth the other 2 are orbiting somewhere right of Pluto.
Truthfully I don't dislike Bob Katter completely, I think Arjay is right about him, he is at least genuine. Palmer on the other hand, well, isn't he having a replica of the 'Titanic' built? His push for PM will meet the same fate as 'Titanic I' it will sink, never to be seen again.
Lexi,is that true? Only 20% of voters in The Deep Deep North vote for Bob. What are the other 80% doing on election day? Out feeding the 'Cane Toads'.

I'd prefer a PM who has proven that he/she can mange successfully despite bureaucracy throwing all at them. It's called competence, you don't get that from half-baked lawyers & hangers-on academics.

Nice one Lexi,

Nothing like a bit of diversity in politics but I’m not sure how seriously the electorates will take to Clive. He is increasingly presenting as a spoilt brat and like Bob Katter, a bit erratic.

There will inevitably be some local or specific policy appeal particularly relating to Senate seats which will help the LNP but I’m unconvinced there will be much lower house value.

One of the problems they both face is that the electorate seems to be increasingly wary of independents and other minorities. There are currently about 22 percent Green/Other votes showing in polling. The issue remains as to how solid these are, whether or not they are just “parked” votes and more importantly, how the preferences might flow?

Current polling is predicated on preference flows from the last election and IMHO, I don’t think these will flow the same at the next election. In which case the addition of “other” candidates will simply split or redirect preferences within the minor parties rather than negatively impact the TPP. In which case the prospects for the ALP are even worse.

I’ll stick with the “bookies” on this one.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed thus far.

What impact might Palmer and Katter make?

Clive Palmer is a talented communicator and he
certainly has an instinctive knack for garnering
publicity. Watching him in an interview with Tony Jones
on Lateline certainly did not disappoint.
As commentators point out - that kind of profile
certainly helps, especially in Queensland,a state where
voters take a shine to outsize personalities and in the
Sunshine seat of Fairfax, where Palmer says he will
run, its predicted that he has more than a rough
chance.

Bob Katter's raw emotion and big hat country style
plays well. A recent "Megapoll" commissioned by Queensland
Union has Katter in the 20% range in much of North Queensland.
And as one commentator pointed out, in a Senate scenario
in which Tony Abbott sweeps to victory in September, that
just might leave Katter with the balance of power in the
upper house.

These two men just may offer the voters an alternative
to the two-party choices currently available. As another
commentator stated, "If you oppose coal seam gas fracking,
or want to see a politician do something to bring down
the price of the Aussie dollar - these guys may be for you.

Err Lexi,

Why would we want to bring down the value of our Dollar? Wouldn’t that make our export resources more attractive and increase our cost of living from the cheap imports upon which we depend?

Also are coal seam gas and fracking the same?

Dear spindoc,

Here's a link that explains coal seam gas fracking:

http://theconversation.com/explainer-coal-seam-gas-shale-gas-and-fracking-in-australia-2585

And as for bringing down the Aussie dollar - many businesses
are loosing money and people are losing jobs due to the high
Australian dollar. The following link explains:

http://www.news.com.au/business/australian-dollar/independent-sa-senator-nick-xenophon-wants-senate-inquiry-impact-of-high-australian-dollar/story-fn6t6wa-1226617661930

Spindoc>>Lexi why would we want to bring down the value of our Dollar? Wouldn’t that make our export resources more attractive and increase our cost of living from the cheap imports upon which we depend?<<

Lexi is correct in the holistic view of the impact of an .85 cent dollar, we the people would be better off. A high dollar is good for Australia's economy, a low dollar is good for the domestic economy, it promotes growth not unsustainable consumerism.

This Labor government has had the largest tax receipts in our history while the domestic economy flounders and jobs keep on going north. High dollar or not , Australia for the first time in history has been warned that our credit rating may go down ...thanks to the best treasurer in the world.

Re Katter and Palmer, why not, can't hurt, we are being bled to death by incompetents, may as well be bled from one who knows what they are doing. I would vote for Katter before Abbott.

Dear SOG,

Great to hear from you again and I also quite
like Bob Katter. As for Clive Palmer - I believe
that he's no stranger to politics. He was a
former office bearer in the Qeensland National Party
in the 1980s and at one time he was openly threatening
to run against Wayne Swan in his suburban Brisbane
suburb of Lilley but then withdrew. Palmer has also
bank rolled the Lib. National Party. This ended with his
feud with Campbell Newman and eventual expulsion from
the party.

Anyway, his statements about refugees - made a lot of
sense to me.

It is de rigueur in some circles to rain cr@p down on any tall poppy.

Looking at this dispassionately:

Clive Palmer was voted as one of the National Trust of Australia's one hundred Australia's Living Treasures.

Also on the list are Dr Karl Kruszelnicki, world champion Formula One driver Sir Jack Brabham, naturalist and conservationist Dr Harry Butler and creator of the cervical vaccine Professor Ian Fraser.

In the words of Ian Carroll, National Trust of Australia (NSW),

"Their generous and significant contributions have, like them, become part of our national heritage".

Clive Palmer has brought prosperity to Australia and he is I believe a generous sponsor, involved in charities.

Bob Katter is well known from his service as a State and federal politician. His own site gives details.

So yes, the two individuals are well known to Australians. Both have made very valuable contributions and no-one can doubt their allegiance and good intentions for Australia. They could both contribute to politics and come from diferent perspectives.

I think Clive is on the right track with his asylum seeker solution. However I think it would have to be modified a bit. They will obviously just fly in on a one way ticket if they fear being put on a plane out again.
If they are paying 10 to 20 grand on a life threatening rickety boat trip why not instead just charge $20,000 to let them in through the front door?(subject to health and criminal record checks.)
Instead of the problem costing us money this solution would make us money.

Dear onthebeach,

I'm so glad that we can agree on some things
afterall. ;-)

Dear Edward,

As I stated earlier - Clive's take on refugees
makes perfect sense. Hopefully, he will win and
make a difference. As will Katter.

Edward Carson,

The infrastructure/welfare costs of those asylum seekers would dwarf that $20,000. Remember that these people aren't selected for their ability to contribute to the economy. If we want to sell entry to Australia, a fair price would amount to (at least) several hundred thousand dollars. See

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/39930.html

Pul1405 surely you see the likeness?
Greens are Labors pain in a tender spot.
Both these two party,s are about to become a pain for Lib/Nats.
And as the senate has to be their first time target further fracture that house of air wasters.
And in doing so not improve good government but stall it, greens style.

Hi Lexi,

The point I was making, as confirmed by your links, is that parts of our economy are geared to a high dollar and others linked to a low dollar. I guess there is a happy medium somewhere, but to assert that a low dollar is attractive for all sectors is not valid. What Australia has to first establish is what industries are most important and which will drive the greater benefit for Australia? Then we can decide whether a high rate of exchange or a low rate of exchange will support this.

The trick is, as always, to ensure that all sectors of our economy are functioning at optimum, rather than selecting a political ideology that serves only the party rather than Australians, al la Clive Palmer.

As for “fracking”, I’m concerned that this is generally not applicable in Australia for CSG as our shallow coal seam gas deposits do not require fracking. It would however be an issue should we start seeking deeper shale oil/gas deposits.

Your link is dated and not that relevant; 16 August 2011 is a lifetime away from today’s reality and is basically outdated by the rapid changes in the energy markets.

So to the policy position of Clive Palmer, the issues of a low dollar and anti-fracking remain obscure.

He won’t get my vote but it seems he is driving a “miner’s wedge” between all existing parties. Very smart because his mining wealth is secure no matter what happens. His political aspirations however, require him to appeal to, and compromise in area’s where two things exist, one that the major parties are already compromised and two, where he thinks he can get votes from those ideologically disaffected, with no capacity for original or cognitive skills.

Politics is a player’s game Lexi; you know this better than most on OLO. Don’t get suckered in as you run the risk of losing your enormous OLO balance and credibility. Please stick with the program and don’t let yourself be “played”.

sonofgloin, what precisely do you mean when you say Lexi is “holistically correct”?

Regards,

Spindoc.

Dear spindoc,

Thanks for that.

That's why I started this thread to find out what
others think and to hopefully get a variety of views.
Then, make up my own mind. Both men appeal
to me very much. However, you've raised some very valid
points which I do appreciate.

It will be interesting to read if others agree with you.

Hi Lexi, I doubt we can place Palmer in the same bucket as Katter.
Shoot-em-up-Katter is a loose canon in comparison to Palmer.

Palmer will have more overall appeal to voters than Katter does. Katter seems to appeal mostly to Queensland regional voters and to gun owners.
Having watched a documentary on him and his redneck ideas once, I would vote for the holy Abbott before him!

Palmer may be a new ideas man in politics, and wouldn't be the first 'rich' guy to dabble in politics.
He seems ok so far, but may not gel very well with working class Aussies.

Suse, Rupert Murdoch is one of those rich guys who's been dabbling in Australian politics for years. Murdoch has never needed to run for PM, he just pulls the strings of ever who's in office.
When the Mad Monk takes over he will have so many string pullers he wont know which way to turn,
Belly, the September election, so easy for me, all I am concerned with is getting Cate Faehrmann elected to the Senate for NSW. I want you out there doing your all for Labor, we'll need those preferences from your mob to win the 5th spot. You say you don't like Lee Rhiannon, wait till Cate hits Canberra, you'll like her even less. Hasta la vista, baby!

Spindoc>> sonofgloin, what precisely do you mean when you say Lexi is “holistically correct”?<<

Yeah it could be grammatically incorrect Sdoc, I meant it to represent “taking all into account” given we were discussing our economy I was meaning that Lexi was looking at more than just exports, a view of everything, the big picture.

Dear Suse,

You could be right about Katter being more
popular in the outer regions and not having
the mass appeal. However, rural Australia
needs a voice - and having read his bio
recently in a magazine - he seems very dedicated
to his electorate and the people he represents.

As for Clive Palmer - we'll have to wait and see.
He's pulled out previously - so can't really judge
him.

Dear SOG,

I was thinking of a broader picture.
So Thanks for that.

SOG/Lexi,

Yes, point taken. I guess I was referring to the very narrow policy platform that is currently represented by Katter and Palmer.

Whilst we may well discuss the wider policy issues I’m not sure these two can, otherwise they will just be “me too’s” with little differentiation.

Thank goodness for rational threads such as this.

Dear spindoc,

Thanks for that.

I watched "The Insiders," this morning and the
panel did discuss Clive Palmer and Bob Katter.
They seemed to think that Katter had a good
chance of retaining his seat. He's apparently
done a lot for his electorate. And he's popular
in the far North. Whereas the feeling
about Palmer was that he's got a big job ahead of
him. He hasn't registered his Party yet, nor does
he have any candidates for the many electorates
around Australia, although that can be solved more
easily, I guess. In other words, he's not well
organised at this stage - and with the election
looming in four months, there's not much time left.

Other commentators are saying that Palmer just may
make it in Fairfax. That he's in with a rough chance there.

Politics all of a sudden appears to be getting interesting
and shows that voters are more diverse than the polls
would have us believe.

The Clive Palmer thing seems to have a bit of the Donald Trumps about it.

What happened with that one?

Dear Poirot,

I think NBC which carries Trump's show, "The Apprentice,"
talked him out of it.

"The Apprentice," is more his style - where he can sell
his brand.

This link may be of interest:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/clive-palmers-run-for-pm-will-be-titanic/story-e6freoof-1226631114094

Yeah, Lexi....I had a quick peruse of your last link, and it summed up the feeling I get about Palmer's interest.

I felt it also had a "Joh for PM" flavour, wherein the main thrust is that the guy with the bags of money or support wants to be Prime Minister.

Being rich and desiring to have the glory of the top job doesn't translate into a person that is committed to doing the best for his electorate or his country.

What it does translate into is an attention-seeking and egotistical push to throw your money about to attain the spot of top political dog.

Bob Katter is, in my opinion, more honest than most people in politics. In Rosalind Kidd's "The Way we Civilise" which is critical of the way Aborigines have been treated in Queensland Katter stands out as one of the few people in the Bjelke-Petersen government who stood up for fair treatment of Aborigines in giving them award wages and the right to make decisions in their own behalf which others would deny them. There seemed to be no political payoff for him in those positions but only a desire for equity. Katter is concerned about the effect of fracking on the environment especially its degradation of farmland. I was at a joint meeting of the Greens and Katter supporters which was concerned about that issue. I do not like Katter's prejudice against homosexuals, but I feel he is a better person than the current leaders of our two major parties.

Dear Poirot,

I'm glad that you read the link I provided.

I thought it was pretty spot on.

It will be interesting to see how far Palmer gets
or if like his American counterparts (rich men
who tried running for President) he'll also
change his mind and move onto other things.

Dear David F.,

Bob Katter is an interesting man. He's of Lebanese and
Irish descent and is said to be a distant relative of the
world renowned poet, Khalil Gibran. I admire much of what
he's done thus far and it is surprising that he's so
anti-homosexuals when his half brother, Carl is openly
gay. Perhaps its Katter's religious beliefs? Katter is a
Maronite Catholic.

You must be a city boy david f, or you would understand the whole award wages thing is largely responsible for todays bl00dy mess.

In the past a station supported a whole tribe, supplied them with all the beef they could eat, support with housing materials, along with traditional style hunting & gathering access to the whole property.

In return a couple of the men would have almost propper jobs, a few more would work 40% of a real job, when work was required, & more would work at roundup time, or in floods etc. It was a kind of halfway house that suited all most everyone. The stock men in particular were very proud of their much valued ability.

Award wages destroyed all this. Only a very few were required full time, & those did not like having to live away from the tribe, who were now no longer supported & had moved to missions.

This is one of Katter's main problems, he only sees the obvious, with out much insight, or often understanding. Yes a really genuine bloke, but a bit hair brained, & at times goes off half cocked.

Palmer is a bit of a grass hopper today. No longer totally involved in building his business interests, he lands on something, worries it like a dog with a bone, then hoops off to something new when it catches his eye.

I would not like to see either as PM, but at least Katter would nail his colours to the mast, & fight to the death for what he saw as right. That would be a major change from the present mob, & probably somewhat better long term.

He is something like old Joh, without the cunning or savvy.

Belly, "if Palmer gets his party up, will take National and Liberal votes first. And votes from each other"

You wish.

However the reverse is more likely, that there will be even more preferences directed away from Labor and Greens.

Dear Hasbeen,

The following link may be of interest:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/01/31/gas-powered-politics-greens-katter-make-case-on-csg/

BTW - Julie Bishop urged conservatives not to jeopardize
the Coalition's chances by splintering the vote.
It seems that they are concerned about Palmer and Katter.

"It's got to be a vote for the Liberal Party and the
National Party," Ms Bishop said.

Whereas the Labot Party welcomed the announcement of
Clive Palmer's run for office.

Anthony Albanese told the newspaper, The Australian:

"I think pretty clearly anyone who votes for a Clive Palmer
led party wasn't a former Labor supporter, they'll be a former
LNP supporter. ..that's his niche market.
If the far-right want to fight with the not-so-far-right
in Queensland, then Good Luck to them."

Interesting times ahead that's for sure.

Dear Hasbeen,

You wrote: "In the past a station supported a whole tribe, supplied them with all the beef they could eat, support with housing materials, along with traditional style hunting & gathering access to the whole property.

In return a couple of the men would have almost propper jobs, a few more would work 40% of a real job, when work was required, & more would work at roundup time, or in floods etc. It was a kind of halfway house that suited all most everyone. The stock men in particular were very proud of their much valued ability.

Award wages destroyed all this. Only a very few were required full time, & those did not like having to live away from the tribe, who were now no longer supported & had moved to missions.

This is one of Katter's main problems, he only sees the obvious, with out much insight, or often understanding. Yes a really genuine bloke, but a bit hair brained, & at times goes off half cocked."

Katter also supported Aboriginal land rights. The system you described above was paternalistic with the station owner sitting on land taken from Aborigines in the first place and taking the profit from that land with the Aborigines given the 'privilege' of working for low wages and subsisting on the land. It was an exploitative system.

When Aborigines got together to buy a station in the York Peninsula that was up for sale the Bjelke-Petersen government blocked the sale. Obviously it wouldn't do to have the Aborigines run a station and take the profit from it themselves.

Katter in this case knew exactly what the situation was.

He was neither hair-brained nor hare-brained.

So, Messrs Katter & Palmer wish to throw their respective hats in the ring as a potential PM ? Why not, they'd probably not do any worse or better than anyone else for that matter ?
It doesn't matter really. We, here in Australia are heading down the same road as the United States and the United Kingdom, we're plunging towards ultimate destruction !

I'm so disillusioned with my country I've never been so close to putting a .38 Spec in my mouth...!

Dear o sung wu.,

I don't think that we fully realise just how
lucky we are in this country and how many,
people around the globe would gladly
trade places with any one of us.

Bombs are not falling over our heads, and
although we criticise things - we really should
count our blessings.

I've always admired you for your logic, reasoning,
and integrity. You're an inspiration.
So, please - don't be disheartened. We need your
optimism - especially on this Forum. I've come
to depend on it and always read your posts - which
I can't say I do for everybody.

Dear David F.,

I've read up on Katter's stand for Aboriginal Rights
and he certainly took a firm stand on their behalf
at a time when it wasn't the popular thing to do.
He did it because he believed it was right.
Got to admire him for that. A rare politician indeed.

Lexi, yes i suppose we are luckier than most.

However, the signs that Australia is going down the tube are everywhere. We need major reform, but where is the sign of leadership? I look at our pollies, academics, journalists, and view most as a joke.

Outside academia, virtually everyone i ask around Albury Wodonga is very worried indeed.

Dear Chris,

No wonder people are concerned when so many
talk down our economy. However the International
Monetary Fund and others paint a totally different
picture. The following link may help cheer you up:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/poilitical-news/australian-economy-leads-the-world-20120418-1x6ac.html

BTW: I attended a library conference a few years back in
Albury-Wodonga organised by ALIA (Australian Library and
Information Association). I was just a novice starting
out in the profession. It was the best conference I've
ever attended (so professionally handled - and the New Years'
Eve Ball was to die for - like a scene out of the Arabian Nights -
awesome). I also loved the area and could easily live there.

Sorry Lexi, but that is the sort of article that hides reality, Aust's easy days are over.

I mean Aust once had the highest level of per capita wealth in world in 19th century, but many people then could not afford shoes. Australia needs much more than silly articles.

"Outside academia, virtually everyone i ask around Albury Wodonga is very worried indeed."

LOL. To what do you attribute this exemption from worry of the denizens of the scented groves?
a) ignorance is bliss?
b) the getting of wisdom?
c) immunity from any need to engage in productive activity?

What politician doesn't aspire to become PM? Has no-one here ever watched the BBC's Yes, (Prime)Minister?

Labor actually has this minister in the frame as a 'possible':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFELLK8htKM

The feckless Greens Earthians have Bob Brown for President of the One World Government and High Priest of Gaiaism:

Here are Bob Brown and Greens conducting their affairs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0FmFOGnf10

It wouldn't be hard for Clive Palmer or Bob Katter to manage better than that. LOL

Good evening LEXI...

Thank you sincerely for your kind words of support, I really appreciate them immensely. I always seem to get a pretty savage attack from the 'black dog' around ANZAC Day. I feel as the years pass the true intent of the day seems to evade many of us more and more. And I feel more and more isolated from it ?

I heard a bloke on the radio, just after the Dawn service, interview a couple of younger people. He asked them what they thought of the Service and the solemnity of the occasion ?

They all said they're were 'enjoying' themselves, and they were going to remain in the city for the 'walk past' of all the veterans ? After which they were going to seek out a two-up game, and have a thoroughly good time...? The Radio bloke concurred with them, saying he was going for a drink himself, and then he's off to the 'footy' after he went off air ?

Perhaps I'm being too 'sensitive' about it all ? I just feel more and more alienated from ANZAC Day, as the years go by ?

o sung wu,

Re the black dog, never doubt that you have people who care to listen without judgement. Here too on this board, just do it.

ANZAC Day, like some other occasions can remind us that ultimately we stand alone. But know this, there are people who are thinking of you anyhow and some of them may not even know you.

Well said onthebeach.
O Sung Wu, I believe more and more people understand the real meaning of Anzac Day as the years go on....not less.

If that were not the case, we would have less people getting out of bed at dawn, and going to participate in or watch the Marches, instead of more every year.

As we watch the troubles experienced in other countries, we can only thank people like you for fighting for what we have here today.

We certainly wouldn't be arguing over who we should have for PM if we had been taken over by a foreign power years ago.

Hang around here on this forum a while longer O Sung Wu, because you have plenty more wisdom to give us all yet :)

Thank you, Suseonline.

o sung wu, I am wondering, do you have an animal in your life? A dog or a cat perhaps. A Burmese cat is small, dog-like in its fondness for its owner, affectionate and clean about the house. They will walk the street on a leash if you start them early.

Depression is almost impossible for those of us who are not sufferers to comprehend. I have someone close who has battled depression for years.

Dear onthebeach,

I looked at the film clip on Bob Brown that you referred to. He was for democratic global government based on one person-one vote all around the planet. I can see nothing wrong with that and support it entirely.

Beach Person, While down at the big sand pit, have you been sunburned on the back of the neck? I detect a bit of red neck with you. The notion of one vote one value, the black man of Africa have the same say as a white American, heaven forbid.
Bob was spot on with his call for world government, it may not come about anytime soon but that does not mean it should not be debated today.
As for that old Youtude, ho hum, I'm sure if we looked we could find plenty of rubbish from the conservative side, Ronnie Reagan, Marggie Thatcher, George Bush and our very own Johnny Howard just to name a few.

Dear o sung wu,

I agree with Suse about ANZAC Day. More and more people
are turning up for the Dawn Service. Young people especially
want to know the history. It is something that will rermain
in our hearts forever and will continue to be passed down from generation to generation.

Keep posting on OLO. We do need you and your voice of
reason and positivity. I've also got personal problems that
I've shared slightly on this Forum and you've been there for me in
the past always with a kind word. Remember - we are a family
on this Forum, and we care very much.

Big hug.

Dear Chris,

I'm sorry that you did not like the link
about our economy from the IMF. Just
trying to cheer you up.

Anyway, you'll have your chance to make your
voice heard at the next election.

Jardine,

i think the anti-coalition sentiment in academia is so strong (in humanities at least) that very few of them can give adequate thought to what is the right balance between production and consumption.

I sort of got past this way of thinking by my third year of undergraduate studies, albeit i cannot claim there are easy answers out there.

In contrast, many outside have a better graps of the issues, again probably explaind and shaped by the reality of their business or employment.

One farmer tells me of businesses that are going to fold long before they happen or are reported

o sung wu,

I also extend my best wishes to you and hope you pick up very soon.

A person concerned about issues is an important person full stop, and the more people that are concerned and express their opinion the better.

Dear o sung wu,

I, for many years, have known a bloke who heads up a veterans federation down our way. He switches his phone off every ANZAC day because he knows how many distressed calls he would have to field otherwise. A little harsh I originally thought but as he explained as a returned vet himself with his own demons to deal with and besides it was a sure bet that a week after things would be back on a relatively even kilter with them all including himself.

He then said something that has never left me, while all the rest of us were immersing ourselves in the ANZAC day spirit and finding it an inspiring and often uplifting occasion, there were plenty of vets who would be having a pretty ugly time of it. It is to these people my thoughts have turned every April 25 since.

I will make another point though, I know that the press and the opposition would have us believe this country is going down the gurgler at a fast rate of knots, I suppose that is their jobs, but it aint. Having lived extensively overseas I know our problems are in reality minor and very much first world. Admittedly the pace of change in this modern technology driven world is bound to leave many of us occasionally feeling a bit disconnected and a little down, I sure do sometimes, and this has always been a favourite pick-me-up.

http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/images/StopLaughing.jpg

Even just looking at the URL has me smiling.

david f and Paul 1405,

So you two are Bob Brown's favoured 'fellow Earthians', and occupants of interplanetary Bob?

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/calling-occupants-of-interplanetary-bob/

Is Bob still out there looking for the little green men in those falling stars that could be their space ships? Wait a bit, Bob is playing pirate isn't he?

Just as well there are working men and women paying taxes to support Bob and his partner on that lovely fully indexed parliamentary superannuation.

Come on o sung, lift your game there soldier.

You may be getting a bit wheezy these days, but I'll bet bet you can still hit the barn wall with a 303, at least, like me, from the inside. That is better than some of the new intakes my son is instructing.

Just don't you forget, we may still need a few old doddery marksman come the revolution, or invasion, which ever comes first.

They are sure to need us lot, we couldn't manage to run away, so we will just have to stay & fight.

Oh, & do remember, every word you put up here is like a round from that 3-0, when it comes to saving the bloody place. It is needed more now than ever before, so get to work.

Any discussion on the cost to taxpayers support
of former party leaders should be broadened out
to include the support of former PMs.

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/howard-tops-ex-pms-in-perks/1395045/

And:

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/we-pay-early-6000week-john-howards-expenses/1645163/

Amen to that Lexi. How does a 70% cut sound?

Paul1405: No, sorry, we Greens are firmly planted on Mother Earth the other 2 are orbiting somewhere right of Pluto.

I'm sorry mate but the Greens have always been well outside & to the left of Pluto. Planted on Mother Earth? EH WHAT!?

Individual: It's called competence,

& you think you’ll get that from Abbott. I don’t think so.

Spindoc: There are currently about 22 percent Green/Other votes showing in polling.

Where do you get your figures from? At some Greenie demonstration. Latest I heard was that Australia was totally dis-enchanted with the Greens because of the Green caused stuff-ups with the present Government.

Lexi: What impact might Palmer and Katter make?

If Palmer ever makes PM the first thing would be to knock off any Mining Tax, then the Royalties, then up the Pollies Pay & allowances, then a CSF plant in every back yard weather you like it or not,(marvellous what money can buy,) then more 457 Visa’s than you could poke a stick at. No jobs for Australians though. With Katter, we’d probably have a big BBQ & go shooting for the weekend. Personally, I like Bob. Sure, he’s a mouth but you know just where he stands. For the People. We’d get the Bradford scheme up & running, there would be plenty of water for the Murray & it would open up Northern Australia. Though, there’s a lot of people that seem to be against that idea.

Clive stands for Clive. He tried to buy the LNP in Qld & failed & was totally pissed off.

Lexi: many businesses are losing money and people are losing jobs due to the high Australian dollar.

I don’t know about that. Something's very strange in this department. When I went to GB Australian products were cheaper than they were in Australia. That’s with the transport cost & all. Same in Singapore. Why is that? Australia manufactures very little these days. Everything is imported. If you try to start manufacturing anything in Australia the Government will put every impediment in your way. I really don’t think it has anything to do with the price of the dollar. Even the Banks borrow overseas at about 1.5 to 2% interest & charge us 7%+ & 29%+ on your Credit Card.

Sonofgloin: Re Katter and Palmer, why not, can't hurt, we are being bled to death by incompetents, may as well be bled from one who knows what they are doing. I would vote for Katter before Abbott.

So would I mate. I’m totally sick of these 2 we have dominating the scene at the moment. They are both sel-serving. Neither of them have the People at heart.

Divergence: If we want to sell entry to Australia, a fair price would amount to (at least) several hundred thousand dollars.

Australia does this already, especially if you are from the UK.

Paul1405: When the Mad Monk takes over he will have so many string pullers he won’t know which way to turn,

Paul, you are soooo right.

David f: Bob Katter is, in my opinion, more honest than most people in politics

Yes David, & that’ll be his downfall unfortunately. It was with Pauline.

Hasbeen: Yes a really genuine bloke, but a bit hair brained, & at times goes off half cocked.

My God, don’t we need more of this type of person, the Clem Jones, Barnaby Joyces, Katters, Joh & even old drunken Labor Pollie (can’t think of his name) from Townsville in the 50’s, rode a pushbike. Men that say what they mean & mean what they say. They may be characters but they were fair dinkum & cared about their people.

Oh Sung Wu: I've never been so close to putting a .38 Spec in my mouth...!

Can I watch, can you do it with one, or do you want a second round. ;-) Listen mate. I had the same problem when I came home, Hypervigilant. I remember once walking around a building site street wall when a ramset gun went off. 3 of us hit the deck, rolled, got up with no weapon, & S#!T. I found a way to accommodate the extra adrenaline. I went skydiving. Worked a treat.

In conclusion. I’ll vote for an independent, if it’s one of Katters mob or Pauline or whoever, but I won’t be voting for one of the 2 useless self-serving Bastard Parties we have at the moment.

o sung wu,

Just wanted to let you know that there were heaps of children and young people commemorating ANZAC Day where I live.

I hadn't been to an Anzac service for years, but this year our son became interested, so we took him. Not before he'd asked many questions and completed a lot of research off his own back - even finding a New York Times article for an elderly friend of ours whose father was recognised as the last British survivor of the allied landings in Gallipoli when he died in 2001.

I think my son recognised the solemnity of the occasion, as did the other children at the ceremony.

You're not alone.

Poirot: Just wanted to let you know that there were heaps of children and young people commemorating ANZAC Day where I live.

Where I live too. Did you know that there were Vietnamese troops at Gallipoli? They fought with the French Colonials on the tip of the peninsular on the Eastern side. From Cochin China or North Vietnam. Well there ya go.

I'm reading all the posts with great interest
on this thread and the one thing that seems
to be coming across is the disappointment
people are feeling in both major political parties
at present.

Only four more months to go until the election.

I wonder what the May budget will bring?

Lexi: the one thing that seems to be coming across is the disappointment people are feeling in both major political parties
at present.

Ah ha! Finally we agree on something, Lexi. That's why, for the last 4 or 5 Elections, I have voted Independent. I used to vote for the person I thought would do the best job for the area, regardless of Party, & was always disappointed. It's not about Us, it's about them.

Dear Jay,

I seem to recall that we've agreed on quite
a few things in the past.;-)

I've just come across the following that might
make you smile:

"Politics?"
Poly = many
+ tics = blood-sucking parasites.

Lexi: I've just come across the following that might make you smile:"Politics?" Poly = many + tics = blood-sucking parasites.

I did, but I had a think about it so I looked up tic, as opposed to ticks, & have come up with a new version.

Polytics: Poly = Many + Tics = Spasmodic twitching of certain muscles (Mainly the head & eye)

You sound apprehensive about the coming Election, as are we all.

Neither of the 2 main Parties offer any solution to sorting out any problems in Australia. The Greens, well the less said the better, unless you want to invest in a horse & buggy & candles. With Clive, well I only see him looking after the Mining Industry & big profits for those involved. Bugger anybody else. With Katter, unfortunately, people put him in a class with Pauline, goaded by the 2 main Parties who stand to lose their power base if he makes inroads into the electorates.

I sure is a sad state of affairs.

Dear Jay,

Thanks for that.

I am somewhat apprehensive about the coming
election.

I keep hoping for some sort of miracle between
now and September.

But I won't hold my breath.

It looks like this thread has now run its
course and I'd like to Thank everyone for
their contributions.

I'm looking forward to the subject matter of
the next thread that someone will start on
OLO. Hopefully it shall not be another political
one. However, I suspect it will be on the levy
that the PM announced today, to help pay for
the National Disability Scheme.

I for one, will happily pay it to improve the
life of our most vulnerable.

I can't imagine Big Clive could possibly be worse than either the Woodpecker or the RAbbott. Neither of those dropkicks have a clue & the Mad Katter isn't far behind. At least Big Clive appears to have made his money from his own ability as a businessman instead of sponging off taxpayers as did the other contenders. Politicians are 'supposedly' folk of good character (hence the 'honorable' title, consequently a background as a lawyer should rightfully disqualify someone from political office. This is particularly apt in the cases of JooLIAR & the RAbbott. Mind you the words 'honorable' & 'politician' are for the most part mutually exclusive. One item of UAP policy that really impressed me was the suggestion that has-been politicians are ridiculously overpaid & a UAP government would take the hatchet to all manner of handouts currently provided to retired politicians. In my book, this enhances the status of Palmer significantly, what other politician has ever suggested curtailing their criminally scandalous rip-off of the people ??

Dear Prax.,

Thanks for your comments.

As Peter Coleman pointed out in the Preface to
"The Costello Memoirs," - "Whatever they may say,
most of them (politicians) do not go into
Parliament to bring about particular reforms; they
go in because they find the life is irrisistible.
They want to be in it all their lives. They enjoy its
exhilarating highs and take its miserable (and tedious)
lows in their stride. They take for granted the slander
of fools. They also believe that the ovters will get it
right in the end. Their day will come. They are politicians
in the way others are poets. They can't help themselves."

I don't know that much about Clive Palmer - but I do like
what I've seen of him. And Bob Katter seems to be a man
of a different parliamentary tradition. He does want to
make a difference. He doesn't seem to be a seat-warmer,
a hack, or a carerrist or even an adventurer. He seems
genuine and keen to make reforms - especially for rural
Australia.

It's going to be an intersting election. Hopefully with
good outcomes.

Clive Palmer was the architect of the 'Joh for Canberra' campaign. That deep sixes him for me.

I certainly wasn't over the moon with the Joh for Canberra bit, but then the other contenders at the time were a pretty sad lot. What I do see in Big Clive is someone who appears to have made a success of business, something that precious few political contenders achieve. The story about slashing perks for the has-been parasites has to be a big winner for Clive. Far too many of the clowns were lawyers for my liking & that tribe go right to the bottom of my list, even used car salespersons & insurance companies rate a tad higher than legal eagles. I could never stand JooLIAR, her supercilious smirk is the epitome of inane political expressions, that irritating voice forces me to turn her off immediately, & one has to cringe when she big-notes herself overseas. The RAbbot might be ever so slightly better but it would be an extremely close call. The Mad Katter lost me when he joined the political correctness circus, surely that must constitute a deal breaker with ultra-conservative bushie constituents who believe the only rights that exist for homosexuals is to get out of town.

Dear David.,

I don't know too much about the "Joh for Canberra,"
campaign. However, it will be interesting to see
whether Clive will get his party registered in time
for the election and whether he'll get enough candidates
to run or whether he'll have a change of heart entirely.

Dear Prax.,

I guess many people are disappointed with the state of
politics at the moment. That's possibly why any alternative
to the major parties looks appealing at present.

What does bother me though is that something awful has
happened to public discussions. I've never seen such
hatred. Some people don't want to see Tony Abbott merely
questioned, they want to see him disemboweled. And yet
others speak of Julia Gillard in the most appaling terms.

The confected anger has been for some time now the
stock-in-trade of some radio broadcasters and columnists,
and they have done their work and unleashed a nasty,
antisocial and destructive power that has real consequences for
the cohesion of our society.

However, I have faith in our society which is remarkably diverse.
We have voters of all persuasions, city and country folk,
very young and very old, straight, gay, and everything else.
Who hopefully will have their say. This country has never
needed a more positive, open, and compassionate approach
than it does at present

I wouldn't touch either of them for quite some time. Give them a couple of elections, & see what they are made of is the only way to treat them.

We saw with Pauline Hansen, & Don Chip what happens when someone tries to turn a little electoral success into a party. They are flooded with people who want to use the new party to be elected, many of whom do not share the new parties ideals.

This always includes some rat bags as a quick look at the Greens will confirm. The Hanson One Nation party had some pretty doubtful candidates elected, & fell apart.

Even rapid expansion of the candidates, or of the candidates elected displays the same problems. With a rapid expansion of electoral success, some candidates not expected to be elected, we have seen a few doubtful members in Newman's huge landslide. People who were not expected to be elected, & were perhaps not vetted well enough, proved poor choices.

Fortunately in this case, he could dispense with these people, unlike Gillard who has had to keep far too much garbage. New small parties are going to have to keep what ever they can get, which is not good for our parliaments.

Dear Hasbeen,

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens
at the next election as to who fares well and
who doesn't. It will be particularly interesting
if Independents like Tony Windsor, et al, will
get re-elected. I heard Bob Katter telling an
interviewer how much money he's been able to raise
for his electorate and how well they're doing now.

Things can change in politics very quickly.
I wouldn't be predicting anything just yet.

Whilst the point about new / small parties & third-rate candidates is a good one, the people Big Clive has been attracting are a tad better than the run of the mill blood-sucking parasite typically found in the political arena. Personally I'd love to see Pauline Hanson join the the UAP flock. Love her or hate her, the issues she's attempted to raise are of concern to a significant number of people and should at the very least be debated openly. Poor quality candidates aren't only a problem for new / small parties however, the ALP is definitely at a disadvantage in respect of candidates due to the number of competing factions. That said, I'm certain most of us are far from impressed with the standard of politicians generally. A total & permanent ban on ex-lawyers would be a very good move, anyone who earns a living from twisting words should be automatically disqualified from political office. It would also be well worthwhile mandating relevant qualifications for state & federal treasurers. No business operator in their right mind would allow a complete novice to mess with their finances, so why do we allow complete dropkicks like the dying duck (or Costello / Fraser / Nicholls for that matter) to get their grubby paws on hundreds of billions of our money ?? Needless to say, all the aforementioned (except the dying duck) were ex-lawyers which probably explains their exalted opinion of their own abilities. Whilst I haven't undertaken a complete study of totally disastrous politicians, I'd be extremely surprised if most of the real clowns weren't failed lawyers.

Well if any of them really want to go somewhere, they have a model to follow.

The UKIP, UK Independence Party, has just had a landslide in their council elections. It appears at that level they are now the third largest in the country. The three main parties are looking worried, & picking up on the UKIP policies.

While their foundation policy of getting out of the EU, has no bearing on us, their others really do.

They call ASGW a fools errand, & will cut the huge waste on AGW research funding. Get rid of the government departments involved

They intend cutting subsidies to the damn fool alternate energy program the UK has followed, cut subsidies for above, & effectively stop any more windmills.

They have a nuclear power policy, & a shale gas policy, both of which will save the taxpayer a fortune.

Now if a new party in Oz showed such sense & bravery, I just may be tempted. However ours just seem to want the same old same old, but with them signing the cheques.

This offers insufficient attraction to lure my vote.

Dear Prax,

I've recently come across the satirical booklet,
"Political Pryorities: How to get on top of
Australian Politicis," written with his tongue
firmly in his cheek by the late Dennis Pryor.

Under political parties he summs up the A.L.P.'s
Membership as being: battlers, trade unionists,
marxists, failed communists, intellectuals,
teachers, do-gooders, and apparatchiks.
Their Spiritual home: at one another's throats.
Preferred sin: envy.
Motto: "Jobs For The Boys.

Whereas the Liberal Party's
Membership as being: lawyers, small business people,
big business people, stockbrokers, money marketers,
working class Tories, young people on the make,
old ladies.
Their Spiritual home: going round in ever decreasing circles.
Preferred sin: greed.
Motto: omnia deducenda (Latin for "everything should be
deductible).

Dear Hasbeen,

Come-on, admit it - you're a Liberal Voter and always
will be!

Yes I have been, mostly, although not exclusively sweetie. But only because they are usually the best on offer, not as with Belly, because I love or even admire them that much. However if any one in Oz started to talk sense about global warming, windmills & bio fuel they would be very close to winning me.

If they will tell the UN where to go, & leave that shonky organization, they would have me for sure.

I doubt the Libs will have the guts, although Barnaby just might, & could even lead the Nationals into a useful organization. Yes could, but very unlikely.

Dear Lexi

The Dennis Pryor booklet contains some worthwhile points but doesn't adequately criticize the bloodsucking parasites who have overrun Australian politics. My ancestors have always been myopically liberal supporters. I was a branch president & have been invited several times to nominate for certain seats. I can't imagine how I could have been so deluded as to accord credibility, let alone actively support a party over-run by lawyers, surely the most avaricious creature ever to exist on planet earth. What mindless numbskull ever decided to let those bottom-dwellers into the political circus in the first place ?? That said, I have no time whatever for the moronic politically correct do-gooders who have not only the ALP but also the Greens & the KAP. Whats wrong for Petes sake with describing a spade as an adjectival shovel ?? Ideally, I'd love to see the end of party politics, the WHOLE responsibility of elected officials should be to their constituents, NOT to a mob of thugs who pull the strings for whatever purpose. Obvious examples are ALP caucus & the UN-holy trinity of Newman / Seeney / Nicholls. First One Nation, then the KAP initially appeared to offer alternatives for those who don't subscribe to all the brain-dead policies that have been proved disastrous everywhere else on the planet. Obviously the boat-rocking Pauline Hanson annoyed the old boys club among others & now we see the KAP kow-towing to the politically correct lobby. One can only hope that Big Clive has the requisite male components to avoid being forced to toe the politically correct line. With a bit of luck, we'll see Pauline Hanson join forced with Big Clive & Co come September. Another interesting development in recent days has been the meeting of the minds between Fred Nile & islamics in respect of a gay marriage referendum. Whilst I'm not in the habit of actively supporting either of those groups, a coalition of UAP, Pauline Hanson, CDP & the islamics would make for a VERY interesting federal government & probably some semblance of accountability.

Dear Hasbeen,

Good Luck with your election choices come September.
Lets hope you get it right for you and your family.
See you on another thread.

Dear Prax.,

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.
It is appreciated.
For me its now run its course.
See you on another discussion.

Dear praxidice,

There are no provisions for political parties in the US Constitution. Those who wrote the Constitution tried to avoid the party system in England. They tried to do do by having the people elect notable unbiased electors who would elect a president by making the president the person with the most electoral votes. The vice-president would be the person with the next-most electoral votes.

They wound up with a president and vice-president at odds as different factions coalesced around different men. The factions became political parties. I'm afraid the political party is something we are going to have to live with. We can improve the situation by making every vote a conscience vote except for those issues specifically mentioned in the party platform on which the candidates run. We can also finance elections by government funding eliminating corporate, union or individual contributions. We can eliminate political advertising and require candidates to confront each other in open debate. We can ban lawyers only retaining them as technicians to make sure that legislation is in proper format. Whatever we do I think we will have political parties as long as we have democracy.

I think if Peter Slipper becomes a member of Clive Palmer's party all chances for a new start will go out the window.
I have no doubt that the people who support Palmer will walk away if he takes in that bloke.

I agree. The man is a grandious poser. Palmer will lose votes hand over fist.

Same here, my impression is that Slippery Pete is a particular nasty piece of work and something one would have no qualms about stepping on if encountered when out and about. The only possible reason I can comprehend for accepting the clown into the UAP is that his presence gives the UAP the numbers needed to be officially recognized as a political party. Whether or not the pros outweigh the cons is another issue.

A bit o' good news this morning, Slipper's been given the slip. Amazing how damaging only a few hours of news can be. I hope that the UAP is not letting in any of the proven failures of the left turned deserters into it's ranks. The UAP would be well advised to pick it's candidates with extreme discretion as to their past. Get fresh blood which has an unblemished record & a good record in anything except Law.
Ex lawyers is what brought this great Nation to it's knees.

Ex lawyers is what brought this great Nation to it's knees.

HEAR HEAR !!

As far as I'm aware, Big Clive doesn't have any other failed leeches in the UAP, hopefully they'll be persona-non-grata indefinitely. As I Understand from various media sources, the Slipper Pete thing was supposedly to get the UAP to 'official' party status, mind you if thats what the mainstream media said its almost certainly a distortion.

Clive must of got the message from the people real quick & got rid of the sore before it festered. Slipper knows that he's got no chance of being elected next time round. He thought he might just have a chance with a new party. Either that or he's a spoiler from the other parties. The same tactic they used with Pauline.

If Clive wants any chance at all, he has to get new blood into his party & vet them all for spoilers.

Jayb,
you're a bit rough on Pauline likening her to slippery dip Pete. She had a lot of support from the blue collar side of the revenue pool, actually the deep end of the pool.
They were taken for granted by the ALP's academic brigade who have no idea about how to create revenue.
I think the revenue makers are just simply sick & tired of the revenue takers.
Clive hopefully has a far more pragmatic approach & let's face his only real opposition is from the takers & the taker-biased media.

indie: you're a bit rough on Pauline likening her to slippery dip Pete.

Oh! I didn't mean to imply that Pauline was like Slippery Pete. What I meant was that the LNP & the ALP loaded her party with people who would bring her Party down. That, and the other Right Wing radical clowns that jumped on board & took advantage of her naivety.

I did like her ideas & the two major Parties have adopted a lot of her policies, in part, anyway.

Cheers for that Jayb, I realised that just as I posted. I have no doubt that UAP will contract a similar cancer but because the two majors are so on the nose UAP might have a better chance to weather it.
ps. I just heard on the news that some leaders overseas are now trying to stomp onto tax evasion. It might just open the eyes & mentalities to the benefit & integrity of a flat tax.

indy: It might just open the eyes & mentalities to the benefit & integrity of a flat tax.

I like the idea of a flat tax. I like a flat rate of 10% on total Gross Earnings from any source with no deductions for anything on Personal Wages & salaries & Business. I know that someone will stand up & say that people should be able to reduce the Tax. I saw, just recently, that 70 of the biggest earners in Australia pay no tax at all. There would be another 700 that paid $1, etc, etc. down the line, because Lawyers & Accountants know how to rip the “system” off for their mates. Praxie will love that.

10% of everything will ensure they pay their fair share. A damm side more than they are paying now. It'll give the lower end a break so they can pay the exorbitant Child Care Fees.

There is indeed much to recommend about a flat tax; it would certainly catch most of the professional tax evaders. The concept isn't new, as I recall even Joe Peanut pushed that particular barrow at one point. I could however imagine the arguments that would be raised by the legal leeches who would face the prospect of actually paying income tax .. an unusual event for those bottom-feeders. Obviously neither of the major parties would have a bar of it but I figure Big Clive just might. Stuff increasing the childcare rebates which only serve to enrich a few parasites, far better to cancel all gubmunt handouts . Simplifying income taxes will have more than sufficient beneficial effect on family expenses.

A flat tax would certainly curb many of the unaffordable excesses by those who don't pay tax now. The excuse of writing things off is just that, a tax-evading excuse. A flat tax would bring prices back into the realm of reality, investment would be substantial & long-term instead of the quick buck toddy & broke tomorrow scenario. The economy would stabilise almost instantly because it would bring out true reward for effort. People would have more spending power, investment would be more localised. I say push for it, don't let a handful of bloodsuckers tell you otherwise.

Its difficult to find fault with the logic behind a flat rate income tax however one can just imagine the hue & cry from those who find the present system to their liking. Is anyone aware of a flat tax implementation anywhere on the planet or have the leeches managed to have their way regardless ?? Seems it would need to be levied from the first dollar earned to prevent enterprising beancounters devising all manner of low income dodges. This brings the necesssity of raising newstart / DSP / age pension etc a tad, but probably no other adjustments needed. Interestingly, Joe Peanut was apparently in favour of flat rate income tax even though he had significant primary production interests and hence no shortage of avenues to minimize his own tax expenditure. I guess my biggest concern is that given the predominance of legally qualified bloodsucking parasites in the political system, its inconceivable that they wouldn't attempt to invent some kind of cop-out for their own benefit and that of their mates and cronies. At this point I'd give a Big Clive party the benefit of the doubt but the same most definitely would NOT apply to either of the major parties. Mind you the odds are there won't be an ALP, at least not with major party status, after September.

It is very unfair how Bob Katter gets the donkey vote every election. In 2010 Bob scored 49,763 donkey votes, this is outrages! I ask why are the feral donkeys allowed to vote in the seat of Kennedy, and only in the seat of Kennedy. Because they are Bob's constituency? LOL

People may laugh at Bob Katter because he's different. Yes, he is different. He sticks up for what the people in his Electorate want, as opposed to the ALP & LNP Politicians who do what their Masters tell them to do & stuff their Electorates.

The World & Australia needs more Politicians like that, instead of ones that are brought off by Lobbyists & Big Business for their own gain.

As I've said previously, the KAP probably had a bright future if only the party hadn't foolishly decided to join the politically correct rabble. Surely the Mad Katter must have realized his core demographic was uber-conservative bushies who never did want a bar of this 'coming out / gay marriage' male bovine dropping. When the party expelled one of their better members simply because he said he wouldn't have a homosexual teaching his kids, that, in my opinion, spelled the beginning of the end for the KAP.

Does any halfway sane individual in all seriousness propose denying parents the right to choose whatever teacher they desire for their little horrors ?? Islamics quite correctly (under existing legislation) demand 'proper' islamic teachers, catholics can select catholic teachers & all manner of protestant parents can select protestant teachers with values compatible with their own. Why then would parents with a sincere conviction about biblical principles agree to have their rugrats taught by people their scriptures clearly identify as 'abominations'. Remember we (as a nation) don't deny islamics this right so why should we deny christians exactly the same right ??

Obviously the politically correct lunatic fringe will immediately jump on their soapbox and start bleating piteously about their 'rights', the same rights incidentally that the numbskulls insist nobody else can have. I contend, ladies & gentlemen, boys & girls, that despite the best efforts of the PC peanut gallery, discrimination is not only alive and well, but its actively flourishing. Furthermore, so it should be if any semblance of freedom of speech / freedom of expression is to be retained. Misguided politicians who blindly pander to bleeding hearts will inevitably discover their membership also 'bleeding' away to another mob with views more aligned with their own.

Jayb, My post above is a joke and actually as a Green I find Bob okay. "As you say He (Bob) sticks up for what the people in his Electorate want" Some of the best environmentalist we have today are farmers. Sustainable agriculture is an absolute necessity in any society. "The World & Australia needs more Politicians like that (Bob)" His simplistic parish pump politics would not suit every situation but I do admire his perceived honesty and outspokenness. Unfortunately The Nationals often represent the interests of the big corporate farmers and forget about the little fella, helping to put him off the land.
My grandfather on my mothers side was a sheep (wool) farmer in central NSW with 750 acres, he did okay, nothing spectacular, unfortunately such people would not get a look in today.

Paul1405: My post above is a joke and actually as a Green I find Bob okay.

I knew that. A Greenie, can't be you sound too sane, must be like me, a small "g" greenie.

Interesting O&A last night. Did anyone watch it. A lot of Staged Managed Questions, mostly from the Greens, but apart from that I thought it went fairly well.

Nichols faired poorly. They gave him a drubbing. Palmer did well also but ducked some Questions by deferring. The ACTU lady did OK. The entertainment for the night was provided by Bob Katter, of course, as is normal for him. Like him or loathe him what he had to say was correct. He had the paperwork with him. Unfortunately, you just can't have anybody with a bit of CDF in a position of Power because the "Powers behind the Throne" won't allow that.

Dear Jay,

I watched "Q and A," last night.
I found it very interesting and yet
at the same time - somewhat unsettling.
What's happening in Queensland and Victoria
currently is simply a sign of worse things to come,
depending on who wins the election in September.
And having frontline desk staff cut in hospitals,
basic services cut, job cuts, while the politicians
give themselves salary increases just doesn't
seem right.

As Clive Palmer pointed out - politicians should
be concerned about providing srvices, not
cutting them.

Lexi: And having frontline desk staff cut in hospitals, basic services cut, job cuts, while the politicians give themselves salary increases just doesn't seem right.

Understanding Business Budgets is simple once you know the rules. Salaries are accounted for in one part of the Budget & Wages come out of another. That way Wages makes up for most of the Business expenditure. So how do reduce Expenditure? Reduce Wages. Who gets paid Wages? Frontline Staff.

Now Salaries are considered an Asset, not an expense, that's why they don't get cut. You see, there job is then to fix the paperwork so it looks like everything is actually working better. Smoke & Mirrors.

As Clive Palmer pointed out - politicians should
be concerned about providing srvices, not
cutting them.

Cutting services means less they are accountable for, and after lining their own pockets, avoiding responsibility is the second goal of any bloodsucking parasite. If there was any decency, they would also drop their over-inflated salaries accordingly, but as others have noted, that point is never worthy of mention.

I need a bit of cheering up.
This is beginning to depress the heck out of me.
I'm going to go and visit my mum. She could do
with lots of hugs. She's got dementia and even though
she might not remember tomorrow that I visited her
I know she'll enjoy seeing me and the stories I
share with her.

Enough about politics.

This is beginning to depress the heck out of me

You aren't alone .... what say we stage a revolution ?? Actually I'd love to discover where Doctor Who keeps all his DALEKS. Wouldn't it be fun to set a tribe of those things loose in Parliament House when the bloodsucking parasites are in session EXTERMINATE ANNIHILATE DESTROY

:) :) :)

Nah....wouldn't be worth the bother.

Tony would just start up a slush fund to get rid of them.

And he'd deny having done it.
The "pillar of honesty" that he is.

The "pillar of honesty" that he is.
Lexi,
What about your mates, the pillars of incompetence ?

Dear Individual,

What mates are those?

My mates are remarkably diverse. They are of all
persuasions. Not all of them may be competent
its true, but then that's a flaw that we all have -
isn't it. However honesty is something that is
valued highly by us all or at least it should be.
And especially by those aspiring to be leaders of
this nation of ours. They should have an unblemished
record.

They should have an unblemished record.

Ahhh, so thats why the blooducking parasites adopt the 'honorable' title ??

Funny, I've always thought the terms 'honorable' & 'politician' were mutually exclusive

indy: The "pillar of honesty" that he is.

Indie, Lexi quip in "Pillar of honesty" was tongue in cheek as you know, but I don't think it was necessary to chop back at her. We all know that none of the Politicians on both sides have any competency or honesty at all

I know, most of us have our favourite Political Party & some of us are, "more into the defence of" than are others. I, personally don't like any of 'em, so I'll poke "fun" at all of them, indiscriminately. The old "defend to the Death" is long a thing of the past for most people. Unfortunately, there are some for which "change" is hard.

Don't be hard on her. You know how easily she breaks.

Unfortunately, there are some for which "change" is hard.

I notice 'statistics' (yes I know) being bandied about claiming 30% of sheeple STILL support the red-headed witch. Thats scarey, like what log have they been sleeping under the past few years ?? Then there is the mob who believe the RAbbott is infallible .. equally frightening considering a federal LNP is guaranteed to be a near carbon-copy of the Newman / Seeney / Nicholls dictatorship.

The most depressing part of this business is that (hopefully) around half the sheeple have sufficient nous to realize the root of the problem is simply human nature rather than one mob of bloodsucking parasites versus the other mob of bloodsucking parasites. Maybe the sheeple need to be confined somewhere & forced to repeat 'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely' for a year or two. How else does one motivate the ten or fifteen million half-awake sheeple to stand up and DEMAND the couple of hundred or whatever it is parasites honor their responsibilities ?? Note particularly that the actions of the parasites, if committed as company directors, would guarantee them free accommodation & meals for the term of their natural lives.

Dear Jay,

You're a very perceptive gentleman.

Thank You.

praxi: sheeple.

I do like that. Good on yer Authur. I hope you've registered it & maybe we'll see it in the Dictionary one day.

Jayb: I know, most of us have our favourite Political Party & some of us are, "more into the defence of" than are others.

I remember a conversation with my Father-in-Law (the last one, for I have had a few)We were talking Politics over something, I forget just what.

He said, "My father was a Labor man, & I'm a Labor man, just like him.

I said, "Do you listen to what they say."

He said, "I don't have too. What ever Labor says is true. Whatever the Torys say is all lies." End of story.

It is the same on the other side of the great divide.

I think the change in attitude came after the Vietnam War. People gradually got to know the truth. Opposite side in the conflict, at home, realized that we all had been conned by our "Honest" Politicians.

The protesters went off to find another "Cause" & being Hippies turned to Nature & into Greenies. Others started other Political Partys, like the Democrates who were eventually destroyed by the Greens. Most of us have wandered in the wilderness, not supporting either side with any great fervour. Looking for the Truth, but never finding it. Maybe, just maybe, the promised land may be in sight. Maybe Not with this Election but maybe the next. The green hill are definitely in the distance & there is still a lot of walking to do but we'll get there I'm sure.

The green hill are definitely in the distance & there is still a lot of walking to do but we'll get there I'm sure.

Its probably 'possible' to have a proper accountable democratic political system, however until / unless we come to the realization that human nature is inherently corrupt, that 'green hill' will continue to be in the distance. Power inevitably reswults in corruption, and conversely, positions of power are irresistible to the corruptible. George Orwell among others warned us about some being more equal than others and that principle has been demonstrated ad infinitum with every permutation & combination of political systems ever devised.

Once we've come to the realization that humans are basically crooks just looking for some poor mug to rip off, we can then develop robust checks & balances to ensure those in power and / or authority can never abuse their positions. Most importantly, those control mechanisms must be put in place well BEFORE power is vested in anybody. Furthermore, control of the checks & balances can NEVER be handed over to those likely to abuse them. Its crazy to give potential dictators the reins of power and expect them to establish a truly accountable control mechanism to curb their natural (evil) human instincts.

As history has proven, the legal fraternity can never be trusted to act with honor. Sure there may be the odd decent one but I think everyone will agree the good ones are somewhat rarer than rocking horse droppings. For what its worth, the most recent honest lawyer of whom I'm aware was Thomas More, and he had his head amputated quite some time back when Henry the Eighth took exception to being told he was nothing but a dirty old man. One doesn't need to inspect the current crop of bloodsucking parasites too closely to find plenty of examples why politics & lawyers should never meet.

continued

Another imperative is ensuring control of working conditions / renumeration remains with the people in perpetuity. I suggest consideration of the present situation whereby the bloodsucking parasites appoint a tame governor general who subsequently rounds up a tribe of known politician-friendly drones. We are assured the whole process is 'independent', however if that is indeed true, how come there has never been a case of a politicians wage rise refused, or a citizen invited to a place on the tribunal ?

As I was taught several lifetimes ago, the Westminster political system involves the people electing representatives who look after the peoples interest on their behalf (government of the people, by the people, for the people). Since WE appoint THEM, they are our employees & consequently we have every right to dictate conditions & renumeration.

Once we have re-asserted our position as the employers of our servants, we are then in the position to demand the end of distasteful practices hitherto rampant in the political circus eg nepotism / lobbying / unaccountability / pandering to scumbag countries like Indonesia / being a puppet of yankeeland etc etc. The green hill suddenly looks a lot closer.

Praxi: Thomas More, and he had his head amputated quite some time back when Henry the Eighth took exception to being told he was nothing but a dirty old man.

Actually it was Thomas Mare that was the dirty old man. He never took a bath or changed his clothes. When his old clothes wore out he just put another lot on over the top. The bottom ones just rotted off. When they went to embalm him the found that he smelled so much & the lice had borrowed into his flesh making tunnels. He was buried as he was, unwashed.

Don't be hard on her. You know how easily she breaks.
Jayb,
Break easily ? No way, her hide's tougher than several of us put together. In terms of OLO she's a real Battlea.e :-)

Actually it was Thomas Mare that was the dirty old man

He wouldn't have had an ensuite or even a change of clothes in his accommodation in the Tower of London. anyway he did at least have the one wife whereas Henry changed them more often than he changed his socks & probably infected every one with the pox as well.

Praxi: Tower of London.

No, You had better read the story. He was Henry's best mate & they used to argue a lot. One day Henry said, "Won't someone rid me of this accursed man." & three knights who wanted to curry favour with the King set off to Canterbury Cathedral where they found Sir Thomas Moore in kneeling prayer in his Chapel. There they killed him thinking they were doing the kings bidding. Then they got their heads chopped off for being so stupid. Know your history dear Arthur.

>>One day Henry said, "Won't someone rid me of this accursed man." & three knights who wanted to curry favour with the King set off to Canterbury Cathedral where they found Sir Thomas Moore in kneeling prayer in his Chapel. There they killed him thinking they were doing the kings bidding. Then they got their heads chopped off for being so stupid. Know your history dear Arthur.<<

That would be Thomas Becket you're thinking of - and the King Henry in this case is King Henry II. Thomas More was beheaded under the rule of King Henry VIII about 350 years later. And he was imprisoned in the Tower of London prior to his execution.

Cheers,

Tony

Tony Lavis: That would be Thomas Becket you're thinking of

Oh God! You're right. Happens when you get older. Interesting place Canterbury Cathedral though.

I don't usually comment on other typo's, I make enough of me own, a few in this post, but I liked this one of yours Tony, not having a shot, it just appeals to my mad cents of humor. Your use of the word CURRY.
I think old Henry wanted the lads to give Tom a bit of curry, and they did, a bit two much. It wasn't Tom Moore although he got a bit more of the curry as well, or Tom Becket, was it not Tom Tom the Pipers Son. LOL.

Paul1405: Tom Tom the Pipers Son

Tom Tom the piper son
He didn't drink Rum,
He only drank Brandy.
He always chased boys
For he was a Dandy.

Old nursery Rhyme. First found around 1560, lots of versions.

Tom Tom the pipers son
Stole a pig and away he ran
The pig was eat and Tom was beat
And Tom went roaring down the street.

This original version was written in the 18th
Century.

There have been many others since.

One of my other favourites is:

Joseph and James were such nice little boys
Jigsaws and chess were their favourite toys
They never played vulgar or dangerous games
Such nice little boys were Joseph and James

Peter and Paul were rougher than bags
Their hair always tousled, their clothing in rags
If anyone anywhere heard of a brawl
They knew where to look for Peter and Paul.