Religion doesn't impress me and I'm constantly trying to understand its appeal to the millions of believers around the globe. Catholicism has recently elected a new Pope and he has become an instant celebrity,I suspect its due to his genuinely humble lifestyle.
I cringe at the sight of those who follow their faith without question and I would imagine some 'clever' entrepreneurs are mass-producing Papal coffee mugs right now. The Sth American continent hasn't had the best of luck over the journey and now in the midst of a mining boom this unfortunate occurrence threatens to stifle their future again.
The genuine popularity of this man makes it difficult for the tabloids and other 'popular' media commentators to rebuke any opportunistic politicians who prefer to follow some of the outdated values of the Bible,particularly in Sth.America but also here where some social issues are struggling for recognition in the modern world. I would be surprised if the Pope allowed himself to get involved in the Falkland Islands issue regardless of who's right. My point is the danger of backward thinking politicians, improving their own popularity on the back of this new Pope. Politicians with religious platforms have a disgraceful track record,particularly in regards to social division.

I started a thread and another ran too about the last Pope leaving.
I beleave in no God.
But looked for a reformer in the then unknown new one.
We may not see it, we may just have it.
I must admit I laughed at the instant tears and joy, seconds after this then unknown man was elected and white smoke billowed.
Will it change the rapes, maybe even child murders reported in Ireland?
Is being a good man possible if over looking the rapes we are reading about from all over the world, for how many century,s?
Shrinking in the developed world growing in poorer nations the future of the Catholic Church remains unknown.

The world doesn't impress me and I'm constantly trying to understand its appeal to the millions of believers around the globe.

Religion, or re-binding with God, is the only way out of attachment to the world.

It is not necessary to be a member of a formal religious order, or to believe in any particular doctrine in order to be religious - but for some people it helps.

Whether and to what extent will the Catholic Church under Pope Francis be a religious institution, remains to be seen. I wish him all success.

Wow.

>>The world doesn't impress me and I'm constantly trying to understand its appeal to the millions of believers around the globe.<<

That is without doubt, Yuyutsu, the single saddest statement I have come across on this forum, or any other.

The world is the most amazing, incredible and unique place that you, I, or anyone else can live in, discover or even imagine.

>>Religion, or re-binding with God, is the only way out of attachment to the world.<<

I could take issue once again with your chosen etymology of the word "religion", but will instead simply point out the implications of wanting to release your attachment to the world. We are all of us attached to this world by the thinnest of threads, which could break at any time, on any day. In some locations - Somalia, Sudan, Syria - life is uncertain even on an hourly basis.

To actually express a desire to voluntarily relinquish that attachment is monumentally unforgiveable.

I have never been able to understand how anyone can believe in a deity of any kind. Looking at the universe, the planet, or the people on it, I totally fail to find the hand of any god, anywhere.

However when a school boy, I was a member of my schools debating team. There were only 4 of us went to inter school events, usually the same three girls, & me

It just so happened each of these girls was the daughter of one of the ministers of religion in our town.

There were no catholics, they had their own school, but these girls, from three different christian denominations would often get together, & waste quite a bit of our preparation time, trying to convert me.

They had no chance, but they did convince me that the christian nations were a much better place to live, than were nations devoted to other religions. In this way they convinced me that the christian church is a valuable institution, even if I can't believe it's founding premise, or want to be involved personally.

Yes I know there have been some dreadful things done by the christian church, & Christians, & still are, but on balance I believe it is a force for good.

So I am happy for the catholics, & their new man, but I do wish the TV news rooms would get sick of him, & get him off the news casts

I don't believe in gods...or vampires, werewolves, fairies or leprechauns!

I try not to knock other people's faith in an invisible being, if that is what gives them comfort.
However, when religious people try to force their beliefs on others, or manipulate laws to further their beliefs, then I will protest.

One of the favourite 'causes' of god-believers, especially catholics, is their anti-abortion stance.
What I don't understand is why they think their god will punish those who have abortions, but this same god apparently has no problems 'allowing' cot deaths, miscarriages, neonatal deaths and children's cancers amongst his 'creations?

The new pope won't be changing his churches views on any of these subjects, because he is yet another frail old man elevated to a high position in a patriarchal church by a large group of other frail elderly men.

Now, if they chose a young woman for their next pope, they may have more of a chance at change for the better...

I could easily believe that feminism was spawned and is led by women who are lapsed Roman Catholics who have an inheritance twisted sexuality, guilt and life experience from that religion and the father figures it promoted. Post WW2 Roman Catholicism was totalitarian, controlled, and used and abused its faithful. Especially for girls where inordinate time and effort were spent screwing with their minds on sex. Roman Catholicism had more in common with a religious cult such was the extent of the control priests held over believers and the punishments exacted upon any who wavered, especially women. They knew women were the strength of the church and religion was taught in the home. Women and mothers got families to church, not men. Women practised and favoured the rituals too, examples being baptism and weddings. Women were attracted to pledges. They liked the mysticism and the superstitions.

I shouldn't complain though because the Roman Catholic girls banged like the proverbial dunny door, doubtless in reaction to a church that had such an unhealthy obsession with sex. But their guilt later was dreadful. Only cured by another raging sex session with alcoholic drinks of choice, to help forget. Guilt and self-loathing was the big stick wielded by priests and it worked for a time. Roman Catholicism as many RC priests would still have it, has a lot in common with Islam.

Many RC parishioners and sections of the official church were nonetheless very caring. The Mercy nuns for instance did a lot of good in the country. Many of the present day schools, devoid of priests, provide good, cheap education. The elderly find that the real, low or no cost practical assistance to keep them independent in their homes comes from RC affiliated organisations.

What I don't want a bar of in the new Pope is any vestige remaining of the WW2 church. But there will be because that is how that church is structured and there is a brutal efficiency in past, but remembered practices. Already there is concern about condoms. Some things do not change.

Dear Pericles,

<<We are all of us attached to this world by the thinnest of threads, which could break at any time, on any day. In some locations - Somalia, Sudan, Syria - life is uncertain even on an hourly basis.>>

You seem to mix up between one's presence in the world (that which some of us loosely call 'life') and one's attachment to the world.

What attaches us to the world is not our body, but only our own desire to be in it, which is the root of all suffering. The end of the body is not necessarily the end of attachment and the end of attachment is not necessarily the end of the body. One can die and still desire to live (hence be looking for another body) and one can live but no longer worry whether their body lives or dies.

It is not whether one lives or dies which matters, but whether or not one is at peace. With attachment, one cannot live in peace and cannot die in peace - without it, one lives in peace and dies in peace. Peace is a property of siding with God, while conflict is a property of siding with the world.

The hope to one day be able to shed one's attachment to the world and working towards fulfilling this hope, is not a cause for sadness, but one's greatest source of joy.

In God alone my soul can find rest and peace - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glQv3Ra4KrE

Y no way! not buying in to that with you again, my head has just stopped spinning from that other thread.
I think the bloke looks ok, but his Church? far from it.
As a non believer I believe in humanity.
We can all point to failures, maybe more than achievements.
But the little things are the gems in life.
Kookaburra calling just after sun rise or before dark priceless.
Kids smiling and laughing .
A time may come when we have no need of straws, and no need for idols , some, too many, with feet of clay.

That's what worries me about your views, Yuyutsu.

>>What attaches us to the world is not our body, but only our own desire to be in it, which is the root of all suffering<<

How infinitely sad it must be, to desire not to be attached to the world, on the basis that you see it only as the cause of suffering.

>>The end of the body is not necessarily the end of attachment<<

I suspect that, for most of us, dying is somewhat... final, and that it completely breaks off our attachment to the world. Which makes this statement of yours somewhat counter-intuitive:

>>It is not whether one lives or dies which matters<<

It most definitely matters to me.

>>With attachment, one cannot live in peace and cannot die in peace...<<

Oh yes you can, if you try. I am very attached to this world, and consider myself to be infinitely fortunate to live in it, particularly in the time and space that I occupy. It would be extremely churlish of me to become detached from the environment that gives me so much delight, on a daily basis.

>>Peace is a property of siding with God, while conflict is a property of siding with the world.<<

Not necessarily. Gott mit uns, and all that.

And this is almost as sad as your "world doesn't impress me" comment earlier:

>>In God alone my soul can find rest and peace<<

For your sake, I hope that you will recognize your God when you find him/her. In the meantime, do try to find some joy in life, rather than in the contemplation of non-life.

'I cringe at the sight of those who follow their faith without question '

Yep me to Whatsit2y. Those athiest who accept that something come from nothing defying every observation and bit of logic one can contemplate. No wonder they accept the gw religion and are totally blinded to failed secular humanism dogmas which destroy societies. Those with faith in God are often called to clean up rotton fruit of the secularist. The faith deniers also often have seared consciences to the extent that they become morally bereft even justifying the killing of the unborn babies by redefining language in the name of science. Yep the faith of atheist is often breathtaking in the way they have to close their eyes every day to the obvious (creation and design which logic requires a Creator/Designer).

I am no fan of the Catholic church however their history has a lot in common with the leftist ideology often dressed up as science.

Yuyutusu, you're a Cynic in other words, like Diogenes of Sinope, those principles formed the basis of the Christan ascetic and monastic traditions so it's entirely consistent and laudable reactionary position you've adopted.

Dear Pericles,

<<Not necessarily. Gott mit uns, and all that.>>

"Gott mit uns" is a distortion - and it's egoistic. True religion is about "uns mit Gott".

<<do try to find some joy in life>>

I have plenty, thanks. It comes when least expected, not when trying to chase after it.

<<rather than in the contemplation of non-life.>>

I do not contemplate dying, but rather aspire to this fantastic state of absence of worrying on all levels, including whether I live or die or whether I have pain or pleasure, that permanent resolution of all ontological anxiety, replaced with absolute and unconditional contentment and peace, where joy does not depend on anything happening or not - that is the state of living with God.

<<I am very attached to this world, and consider myself to be infinitely fortunate to live in it, particularly in the time and space that I occupy. It would be extremely churlish of me to become detached from the environment that gives me so much delight, on a daily basis.>>

The question is whether you are as attached to this world as you believe yourself to be. For one, you are not as concerned about dying as most others. For two, you look at the brighter side of life - it takes a degree of detachment to do so.

We are all attached to the world to one degree or another - and life will keep testing us, throwing at us pleasures that we don't want to give up and pains that we want to avoid. The one who is unattached considers them the same, hence does not suffer when pleasure is gone or when pain's turn arrives.

Dear Jay,

Thank you. Indeed I revere Diogenes as one of my teachers.

Yuyutsu,

The world is wonderful and beautiful place. Just look at nature in its various manifestations.

It is we humans who stuff it up.

A good man as defined by the Church may not necessarily be a good man or the best man for the job as far as wordly matters go.

South America is heavily influenced by the Catholic Church and large families continue despite poverty and economic hardships.

I hope the new Pope has the courage to review many of the traditional Catholic views on contraception (not just for infections), women in the Church, homesexuality and marriage for priests.

Any religion, whether Catholic or otherwise, can only benefit by being more in touch with their parishioners than being set apart or put on a pedestal.

Dear Danielle,

<<The world is wonderful and beautiful place. Just look at nature in its various manifestations.>>

Do you feel the same when you find a cockroach in your kitchen?

Dear Pelican,

<<I hope the new Pope has the courage to review many of the traditional Catholic views on contraception (not just for infections), women in the Church, homesexuality and marriage for priests.>>

It is unrealistic for one man to do. The Catholic Church has more urgent priorities now, such as getting rid of its corrupt and mafioso Vatican curia.

<<Any religion, whether Catholic or otherwise, can only benefit by being more in touch with their parishioners than being set apart or put on a pedestal.>>

Certainly. Being in touch and off-pedestal is very important, but it does not require the lowering of standards. Celibacy should remain the highest sexual ideal, while at the same time accepting that for most people it is for the time-being unattainable.

Yuyutsu,

If I found a cockroach in my kitchen, it would be my skill at house-keeping that is the problem, not them.

Cockroaches date back 350 million years and are amazingly successful at survival. Depending upon the species, they can go up to 3 months without food, a month without water, survive submersion in water for half an hour, and whilst a warmth seeking insect can survive freezing temperatures, and also survive a lethal dose of radiation up to 15 times that lethal to humans. The structure of their legs, enabling movement over difficult terrain, has been adopted in designing robotic legs.

“Research has shown group-based decision-making is responsible for complex behaviors such as resource allocation. “

(wikipedia)

Yuyutsu,

The link you provided 'Songs of Taize' - quite beautiful - also demonstrates a reverence for nature.