I briefly heard the tail end of a conversation from senator Doug Cameron,On ABC radio today, who said, labor should increase taxes, so that the dole can be increased, so recipients of the new start allowance COULD LIVE A DECENT EXISTANCE.

Please, correct me if I heard wrong.

I know just what you mean, rehctub,

Surely anyone on the dole should be cosy in the gutter. After all that's where they belong. Fancy them wanting a decent existence.

Societal cohesion - who needs it!

I reckon some of our taxes should be put into AA in order to wean the country's magistrates of gin.

I see no problem with that. those in favour of paying more inform the ATO & those who are not in favour just keep paying your present rate. Is there anything less complicated ?
I suppose there is, we could tax any public servant over $100,000/year a little more. That'll more than adequately provide for those who think they're too good to have to pull their own weight.
The genuine innocently out of work must be given a decent existence. I think it would be far better if the Lotteries instead of paying out 50 or 70 million dollars reduced the first price & increased 2nd, third, fourth & fifth. that would alleviate a lot of unnecessary hardship.
Perhaps when we get the smarter Government something like this could be implemented. A Government Lottery perhaps ?

Why on earth would they want to buy the yobbo's vote, they already own that. In fact have put a few of them in to parliment as senators.

Hell no Poirot, they shouldn't be bludging in the gutter. They should be in work camps, building roads, clearing noxious weeds, or the highly flammable litter in national parks. Nothing wrong with making 40hour a week jobs of these tasks either, on minimum wage, rather than dole.

Anyone who wants to eat should have to give something back when given a hand out. Anyone who did not feel better actually earning their keep is not worth keeping.

Socialist Left Doug Cameron has previously taken Julia Gillard and her Greens cohorts to task for the big spending promises being made in the electioneering that is supposed to be governing. He was unsuccessful in his bid to have some of that money directed into Newstart, so the old favourite, just demand more mosey from taxpayers has come to the fore.

Higher tax would hardly be welcome where the electorate is already complaining about cost of living increases. The increase would be followed by an immediate jump in wages and prices, and cost of living increases. It is the dog chasing its tail, which those on pensions and fixed incomes would be aware of.

There are mega millions being wasted frivolously in the victim industries and multiculturalism that were spawned in the Whitlam years and have grown like topsy since. The total amount spent in these areas defies reckoning there are so many snouts in the trough. But wait a minute, that is where the educated middle class elite who drive Labor policy make their daily bread and pay for their Beamers.

Well said Hasbeen, all but the 40 hour bit, as I recon they should do what ever amount of hours per fortnight it takes, at minimum wages, to receive what they get.

THEN, we shoukd go one step forward and quarantine their tax payer funded hand out.

Now before Belly gets on his hobby horse, I'm not talking food stamps.

I see disaster relief is provided with a SPEACIAL debit card, and cant be wasted.

Why can't welfare be provided the same way, as after all, Mr Camerons logic for his remarks is so that kids don't go without.

Well, stop pissing welfare dollars away on the likes of pokies, grog and cigs, and many kids will go to bed will fuller stomachs Mr Cameron, without increasing the burden on already stretched tax payers.

The problem is that so much money is being blown on the victim industry and multiculturalism that reductions have had to be made in the traditional areas of welfare. There are too many snouts in the public trough.

rehctub,

I think Labor MPs are preparing for their future on Newstart.

Dear Shadow Minister,

Newstart is too good for them.

May I suggest we give them Jumpstart with 33,000 volts.

Shadow Minister,
The Labor MP's may well go but we're still stuck with Labor bureaucrats. How can we rid ourselves of that empire ?

Dear individual,

If we include Labor bureaucrats then we will need to increase the Jumpstart allowance to 70,000 volts.

Freedom for those who can afford it, slavery for those who cannot.

Nice work coots, keep it up.

Ah, the same old question rears its ugly head once again. (When our children leave school, where are they going to go?....a very good question don’t you think. Work for dole only takes up their spare time, it’s doesn’t do their self worth any good at all. $20 a fortnight for the work you all have gave examples for is just pathetic. I say give them $100 per 14 days or $5.70 per hour, at least they’ll still feel like humans more than the slaves that their IQ,s may or may not be their faults. Technology and population blowouts have contributed a large factor to this equation, and more and more highly skilled people use Centrelink and yet still have to pay the bills.

Planet3

Yes SM, you may be on to something there.

Don't we think a better approach would be to first fix the leaks, before simply throwing more money at the problem, because if you dont, a fair percentage of the increase will end up down the drain as well.

While running my butcher shops, when times became tough, as they often did, the first thing I always did was identified and cut down on waste.

It stands to reason that if 5% of the new start budget is wasted, then if this waste is stopped, then this in it's self is an increase in new start spending, in areas as intended.

As I say, fix the holes before throwing more money in the bucket.

Poirot, perhaps you could run for a position in the labor government, as this thinking, that people WHO DONT WORK deserve to live a decent lifestyle is little more than a joke.

Besides, with unemployment at just 5% (apparently) simply go and get a job, and don't just sit there expecting someone else to pick up the tab, because after all, the tax payers are already providing for many of these people's kids.

Rechtub, right on!
Every word.
I say we set up booths to kill the poor no way we should share our good fortune.
That is what you are saying is it not.
Now pause, think, then answer, what would you want if it turned upside down on you.
Life I refer to.
You again and again pillory me, for something I truly am happy to be, different than you.
I would give every bit of food in my house away, rather than watch an Aussie, anyone in our country, go hungry.

I think we are getting to a point we no longer need to exist.
This part of OLO,
A place occupide by grumpy old right wing heartless, and in some cases clueless folk
How many have truly been hungry?
Welby, a tiny village when I lived there, now I am told a town.
1953 and a familly broken down on the road side miles from any place, and hungry.
I was 8 years old, trucks owned by dads ex brother in law told us about them.
After they, each trip gave what they could.
We walked, no car not much money for miles to give them food.
I saw times we, truly, had spuds and pumpkin for tea and their skins for breakfast.
True.
Any off us, could be no fault of our own, on the dole.
I do not care if you never talk to me again, you insult Aussie mateship!
Are the true poor nothing more than reason to show a clear bigotry about their current position in life?
Do you truly think these infamous thoughts.

Here you go, rehctub,

A glossary of "workhouses" you might like to peruse. Perhaps you can conjure up a good working model for 21st century Australia.

One of them even had sections for "deserving" and "undeserving" poor - they even had separate internal staircases (sounds great, don't cha think?)

http://www.historyextra.com/workhouse

Here are a few more pointers:

http://www.amazon.com/Oliver-Twist-Dover-Thrift-Editions/dp/0486424537

(Got you the "thrift" edition in keeping with your philosophy:)

Belly mate ship is when you through a bloke the keys to your car, so he can drive to a job interview.

Foolishness is when you let him have your car, & keep filling it with fuel, so he can drive to the pub, rather than a job interview.

Perhaps you are a bit out of it these days, you must be if you don't see any of these taking you for a fool. I'll help anyone, but you only get one go at making a fool of me.

My wife is a councilor. She was head hunted by a jobs network provider, after she had found lots of in school apprentice places for kids at out local high school.

A bleeding heart, it was never the unemployed fault. None of the homeless were ever at fault. We never broached the subject, as we had no meeting point.

After a few years now she sees my point. She has helped many good ones back into the workforce, some into very good jobs. Others she has found part time work, where they don't loose their welfare, before getting them back into propper work. Loosing welfare is a real worry for many of the genuine ones who have been unlucky.

However a great many will never turn up for interviews, or do so barefoot, unshaven, unwashed & smelly for a service industry job. It does not take long to spot the professional unemployed.

If you are fool enough to pay for this rabble, go for it, but don't expect every one else to join you.

"deserving" and "undeserving" poor "
Poirot,
the undeserving poor (the victims of Labor) get nothing & the undeserving poor (encouraged by Labor's mindless schemes) get too much.
I really believe a massive change is needed & soon. I for one am pressing for a two year National Service for 19-21 year olds. That would do such much good it'd keep the lefties dizzy for years from being dumbstruck.

Ar Belly, yo just can't help yourself can you, you always have to make me out to be the rotten one who pics in the poor.

You know I don't hate poor people, but I despise dole bludgers and as Hasbeen quite rightly points out, there are plenty of them.

Now as for your quest to empt your pantry, go right ahead, it's a free world, only some among us take that the wrong way, as they think it's our duty to provide them with their free world.

Now back on topic, do you honestly think it's wise to throw more money at this problem, without first addressing the short falls?

Surely you can see the waste that goes on in the system and the resulting kids who miss out.

This is not about poor people, it's about yet ANOTHER useless labor minister, trying to win votes by throwing MORE good money after bad.

Every single person in this country should in some way earn what they get, because if we don't stop the hand outs, we will be doomed, because thanks to labor, we now have all these illegals getting their hand outs as well, not to mention those who refuse to work, even after being here for five years.

I am afraid it's time someone brought out the big stick.

<<increase taxes, so that the dole can be increased, so recipients of the new start allowance COULD LIVE A DECENT EXISTANCE.>>

This is a noble cause and I'll be most happy to pay this extra tax - on two conditions:

1) That this tax be optional.
(otherwise the tax cannot achieve its purpose because one cannot enjoy a decent existence when living on money stolen from others)

2) That Centerlink is abolished and anyone who has no income receives this increased allowance with no questions asked.
(only a tiny office should remain to accept statutory-declarations that one has no income, then send the money to the nominated bank-accounts. Falsifying statutory-declarations is a matter for the police and already carries severe criminal penalties)

The very abolition of Centerlink will by itself easily fund the difference, then there are so many other government departments to abolish!

So if all you well off blokes want to stop 'welfare' payments to so called dole bludgers, will you also be comfortable taking it from their children?
Who pays for the dole bludgers kids then?

Do you not think that this country is rich enough not to have to 'force' serial non-workers to do something they are most probably mentally unable or unwilling to do, for whatever reason?

I have seen where Centrelink place these long term unemployed and otherwise generally unemployable people. They thrust them into aged care facilities.

These facilities are crying out for carers because of the poor pay such a job attracts.
Instead of improving pay and conditions so our sick elderly people can have quality care, every successive Government have sent unwilling unemployed people to 'care' for the most vulnerable people in our society.

I would rather they paid these unemployable people the dole...

Yep, real well off Suse, I'm on the age pension.

As a pensioner I'm not against welfare, just bludgers.

My wife lives in town, but prevailed upon me a couple of times to let one of her lost sheep, ones she felt were deserving, live in my now gone mums granny flat for a short time to help them out. Both caused damage, although not malicious damage, & I had trouble getting rid of one who was a nuisance when drunk.

The organisation she works for has to be very careful about not using the names of their staff, as some have been threatened by bludgers they have had to breach for continual noncompliance with welfare conditions. There is a real fear of retribution with some of them.

My wife may have not been careful enough, as I have had the wives of some of these bludgers come here at night, crying their eyes out, looking for her for help, when he has gambled or drunk the welfare, & they are about to loose their accommodation, or have no food.

If you are fair dinkum about helping any kids involved, you would be all for food/rent stamps, & bugger the bludgers pride. Most don't have any of that anyway.

Having had a bit to do with aged care facilities in business, & in the last few months of my mothers life, I can assure you no bludgers are employed by them around here. Yes the wages are low, but perhaps because it's a country area, the staff are really great almost to the last one.

Yes some ladies can't resist a lost sheep, but if you could see what the bludgers think of those silly enough to help them, you might wake up.

Suz, at no point have I said not to pay the bludgers kids, however, the only reason many of the bludgers have kids, is because our system supports this type of unfavorable population boost.

You know a system is ass up, when these bludgers can have their kids looked after for free, or bugger all, yet working parent/s pay through the nose for EXACTLY THE SAME CARE. It's yet another joke!

Now back to the kids.

These kids going with out, Is due to the administrators placing trust in these parents to distribute the welfare to the kids, when many of them can't even present for a job, let alone get and hold one.

Expecting them to the distribute the money, where its needed most, to the kids, is just plain stupidity in my view.

Talk about pissing into a fan!

I noted recently that disaster relief was provided via a SPECIAL debit card, whereby only nessecities could be purchased, no gambling, no cigs and no grog.

The problem of kids missing out would be all but fixed by implementing this simple OBVIOUSLY AVAILABLE measure.

Not food or rent stamps, but a debit card, where all welfare, as well as child support could be quarantined, in an effort to prevent waste and missmanagement of tax payers and support providers dollars, not to mention address the issue of kids going hungry, or spouses tearing their hair out because the other half has wasted the much needed money.

As I have said, fix the leaks first, before throwing more money at the problem.

Now you lot who love to hate me can throw as much mud as you like, cause it don't stick here.

Common sense is what is required, but I guess that doesn't win votes.

Now if this type of attitude makes me a dole hater, then I guess I am guilty as charged, as my concerns are for that of the kids, more than anything else.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/middle-class-has-cake-eats-it-too-20130313-2g0lr.html
A conversation about refoming welfare, cutting waste would have my support.
One actually saying the unemployed are all ALP voters,or unworthy, is beyond insane.

I was raised and went to school in world war two and taught to work and be independent of the government. It was shameful to actually collect the dole in those days.

Twelve months ago I wanted a little extra money so I immediately got a job delivering pamphlets for nine months, Sometimes for as little as $5.00 an hour and walking 10 ks delivering about 60 kg total. I think I have every right to tell the bludgers to get a job.

Dear Snake,

Your attitude is correct, but harassing people with junk-mail is not the answer.

Unfortunately many of the available jobs harm others.

Facing this terrible dilemma of either taking stolen government-money or getting a job that harms others, one should pray for guidance and approach charities instead.

It's better to knock on people's doors and ask them directly for money than to pollute their minds through their mailboxes into buying unwholesome things they wouldn't intend to buy otherwise.

ROFL, Yuyutsu. I can relate to that.

On the other hand, The way these parasites described here are multiplying, we'll probably be grateful for the free energy supply delivered directly to our letter boxes to keep us warm in the winter :~)

I agree mustard. It is not harassing Yuyutsu, it is providing a useful service. With out that service, I would have to buy more newspapers, to wrap my rubbish.

But snake, would you mind sticking more of the physically large ones in there, & a few less of the smaller ones, they are a bit of a hassle for wrapping with?

Hehehe! We're on a roll today :~)

"""
I would have to buy more newspapers, to wrap my rubbish.
"""

And on another thread they're whining about control of what's written in said papers. Who cares, they're all full of crap lies. I don't choose what to burn or wrap rubbish in by their content; different words wont make them burn any beter :~)

I could sink in to the mud and agree, but in truth would rather die.
Willing to bet some who target those on the dole have kids on it now or others in the family.
We here once had great contributors, not now.
An unemployed person, or other welfare receiver may be in a wheel chair.
May vote for any party not the filthy accusation they vote to protect welfare income.
Today we saw a bill pass the lower house, to for our country,s first time ever, truly try to look after those with disability's.
I , at least twice posted threads demanding an end to welfare waste.
Each time rechtub agreed as long as he received benefits for his years of tax.
Your words not mine damn you rechtub.
To lump all in one basket, to defame all on welfare is a filthy thing to do.
Mateship is far more than hate of a whole class of people.

Nice rant Belly, as usual you try to make me out to be a hater of all on welfare.

So may I suggest you getbthis into your thick skull, I OMLY HATE BLUDGERS AND WELFARE WASTE. GET IT!

Now as for someone wheelchair bound, they would most likely be on a disability pension, but nice try anyway.

On that subject, I knew of a lady in a WC who operated a check out at Kmart.

I used to admire her and wait for her to serve me, when possible, and I often wondered why someone like that wasn't Australian of the year, rather than some sporting hero on. Mill plus per year.

But, at the end of the day, as is often the case you have come out guns blazing, yet fail to acknowledge that this thread is about what this toss of a minister, wanting to protect the lives of kids, while knowing full well that billions of the kids money get pissed away each and every year in the way of wasted welfare.

So tell me Belly, domt you think this waste first, would be a better option, rather than simply throwing more money at the problem, as after all, that mentality has led us to the poor situation we are in today. You know, from 20 billion in the bank, to 150 billion in the red AND COUNTING.

Of cause, you're not worried, cause to you it's simply a matter of changing leaders AGAIN!

Belly, I note you wrote this....I , at least twice posted threads demanding an end to welfare waste.

Yes, but the one measure that would almost certainly curb this waste, if not stop it, is controlling what it can, and can't be spent on.

The technology is there, the payments are paid electronically, but for some reason, you can't bring yourself to agree with it, as to you, the dole, which is what this thread is about, is a given right, not a gift.

Even if say 80% of it was quarantined it would save money and provide more kids with essentials, which, by the way, is the reason this dill of a minister wants to increase payment, the kids.

An increase in the dole, without addressing the waste, will mean an increase in waste, simply because these people who waste their prescious tax payer funded gift, are given full rein over how and when they spend it.

I do not wish to enter a debate that imply s every person on welfare is a criminal.
Burr right up! every time at the thought they are fixed Labor voters and therefore bludgers!~
Rechtub did you read my posted link here.
Is paying welfare to those middle and high income earners a lessor crime than paying it to the very poor?
Welfare wasted on the rich is as bad as any waste.
Welfare includes pensions unemployed and disability, in my view Baby bonus is welfare and the costs to run all of this comes in to that over all calculation.
Rechtub both sides have changed welfare very much in the last 40years.
Labor is in trouble for telling single parents to return to work after the last child turns eight.
Do we all understand cutting waste can more than pay for the true needy to get more?
And that a fact is we see massive fraud every few years uncovered, but that the system let it happen.
An unemployed person, asked as you did here, to work 40 hours, reduce it to 36 if you like.
Would at minimum wage have mostly earned his/her wage on the morning of day three.
No absolutes in welfare, not Labor voting parasites lining up to defraud us.
Each year Rechtub, people kill them selves, because they have no job and no chance.
A day will come, it may be a Liberal or Labor government, that sees us get both a return for welfare and as near an end to fraud as is possible.

Let's assume that there is a case for increasing the dole.That recipients don't currently live a decent life.

Why does Labor reflexively assume that they have to increases taxes to increase the dole.

A few days ago they announced they'd give $75m to 'the arts'. But surely its more important to give dole recipients a 'decent life' than to subsidise this or that theatre. So take the money back and divi it up among the poor unemployed.

And the government recently gave an additional $10m to the ABC. Wouldn't it be much better to share that with the poor? Indeed close half the ABC and the poor (and a lot of others) could really live a decent life.

Close down the Climate Commission, the Arts Council, the BER and the NBN and we could have a real decent life. Indeed go through all government functions and work out which ones could go in the name of giving these poor people a decent life and we would find that there are lots of ways of doing it rather than raising taxes.

But alas, that's not the way Labor thinks.

"""
But alas, that's not the way Labor thinks.
"""

Good post, mhaze. But does any government think that way?

All harp on about smaller government yet its growth is assured by both parties at both state and federal level!

Agreed RawMustard...in the same way as people who apply for the executioners job beleive in capital punishment, people who go into government believe in the ability of government to make it all better.

The size of government grew under Reagan. ditto Howard. Cameron is currently being attacked for savaging social services, yet the size of government is still growing in the UK.

The difference between, say, Lib and Lab is at the margins. Whereas the Libs will seek to create funds for their particular pet projects by getting rid of waste and the superfluous, the Labs think they can just keep going back to the well.

The Lib approach still ends up with a bigger government because they spend the natural increase in revenues. But the increase in quantitatively different to the alternative.

I'm just hoping that once we get past the formalities of 14/9 we will see a government genuinely dedicated to a smaller foot-print that allows debt to be reduced. Hopeful but not confident.

Comment surely should be in the same paddock as the truth?
ONE single and not well thought of Labor member, from the lunatic left and from that section of the Union movement said that.
The truth, can we handel that?
Is Labor has no intention of raising taxs to pay more to these folk.
Do we continue to invent our debates?
Fact is Labor and yes Liberals, are cutting welfare, and being bashed for it.
The extreme insults,along with extreme failure to under stand why, Labor is asking single parents to find work after the youngest turns eight.
Is finding insults both ways,for cutting welfare, and this imaginary debate about a not happening event, paying more.

Dear mhaze

The difference between Liberals and Labor is pretty simply their attitude to labour.

The US has the Republicans, we have the Liberals; the US has the Democrats, we have Labor.

It's all about class. A first year sociology undergraduate could tell us that.

Q: Does anyone recall John Howard telling the nation that there is no class in Australian society?
A: Do you know that John Howard is a climate change skeptic?