Should be, "..nor do (proved) evil themselves."

How many people here even belong to a political party? That is to say, pay dues, attends meetings etc. I'm not and I haven't cast a formal ballot in any election since 1996.

Belly, I've got mixed views on the Lib/Nat thing. Electorally I think it costs to have the division (same with other groups on the nominal right of the political divide - One Nation, Katter etc).

It seems harder for those separate parties to win a seat than for a single party representing a broader audience to do so (especially with optional preferential voting). Instead of one candidate from the right needing to fund an election you might have three or four (and I don't think the funding pool is three or four times the size just because their are more candidates).

On the other hand it can give voters a choice in which brand best reflects their own political leanings. How does the average voter let the party bosses know they are unhappy if there are no good independents in a local seat and they can't bring themselves to vote for the other side or the extremists on their own side?

No easy answers.

R0bert

Belly. just because YOUR party is riddled with factionalism and criminality please do not try and label ALL political parties as so. As an active and long term member of The Greens I am not a member of any so called faction! Why? Because I don't known of any factions to join within the party, I do not believe they exist. Unlike your party The Greens is a grass roots democratic party of inclusion, that is members actually get a say in determining party policy and direction. Here is something that will startle you, if you were a member of The Greens you would get to vote for whom will stand for political office in your name, from candidates for local council to those who seek office in the federal sphere, even you could be a candidate, if you so desire and the membership supported you.
The only difference between the Labor right faction, in reality the Labor Party, and the conservatives is a matter of emphases, there is no real philosophical difference when it comes to political direction. The conflict between the two is one of power and who should exercise that power.
I ask you take a look at Wayne Swan, Joe Hockey etc, etc can you tell that there is any real difference in one's political philosophy from the other, I do not think so. Come September 14th cast your vote for Tweedle Dum or Tweedle Even Dummer, it will only make a marginal difference at best.
I actually came across a fellow recently who exclaimed to me he had quit the Labor Party and joined the Liberals, no doubt a rat deserting the sinking ship, I think, he though I would be shocked, my reaction was; "So what, you should fit right in."
Finally, don't hold your breath waiting for Labor Party reform, it ain't going to happen!

onthebeach mate re read your post, how did you get inside my head?
How come you while wandering about in there found reasons for my thoughts I never had.
RObert yes as usual you gave it thought.
Paul, its Christmas! if you are right, and you are not.
Labor will prevail, IF ENOUGH CARE, never ever give up, within todays party lives talent and brave soles who will be there post Gillard/Shorten.
Tomorrow, shortly after my other love NRL I will witness the trouncing of my party in WA.
About 20% will vote on Gillard, no matter what the states needs.
Paul I understand my party is in need of help, we could, by infiltrating a few members in to greens, take them over, but it already is in its death dive.
Inclusiveness, in my mind says the ability to house people of many views in one party, let them have a voice, and the right to cross the floor.
Lack of that right powered the filth in NSW.
However one vote one value, along with abolition of upper houses will do it.
A challenge, did England and this country ever think upper houses would give birth to partys like the greens? holding balance of power over 88% of voters with just 12%

WA was no surprise to me.
The greens loss, Labors annihilation.
Nothing unexpected.
In fact, at best,a Gillard led Labor can only reduce the number it is beaten by.
And that will not be because Australia has changed its mind about her, that will not happen.
However September is a long way away, Climate change, here and around the world will impact.
If Abbott sticks to his plan.
My thoughts here, that both and all party,s are inclusive, is in my view true.
And the best outcome.
But too, both are right now, in the hands of factions.
Dirty word that.
Most stick to using it as a swear word, directed at Labor.
But too wets drys big L Liberals small l ones exist.
And as the tide rises and falls, both sides must give air to the others in their tent.
Why.
There are no Absolutes, and giving that air can stop fractures.