I think as the election nears and events in state and Territory gets interesting we can talk.
About the internal factions within all party,s.
And I think, other than the take over of the ALP by a facton, such factions are healthy.
We only however need to look at the party,s that came to life as splits from the main, Democrats from the Liberals.
And let us not forget One Nation was born from within them too.
Greens it can be said are as near as you can get to a split from Labor
DLP, once so dear to Tony Abbott was a split too..
My thoughts and point is as every party has factions maybe we benefit from keeping the factions within the whole.
What do others think about factions?

"My (Belly) thoughts and point is as every party has factions maybe we benefit from keeping the factions within the whole."
Take one look at what factionalism has done to the ALP, it has all but destroyed the party. The Labor Right has taken over, divested the party of any kind of grass roots democracy. Power has been placed in the hands of the parties ruling elite, who through deal and cronyism control all.
Labor no longer is a party of inclusion, the ideals it once stood for have been dumped in favor of pragmatism for the sake of power.
To put it bluntly, now the chickens are coming home to rust.
p/s No factions in The Green.

I dunno' Belly.

I don't have a problem with the question or the answers but your lot have only 191 days to come up with a solution. Given that it was not sorted after the NSW election, nor was it addressed for the QLD election, I guess you are all going down with the Red Queeen.

Spindoc if it is pain you wish to inflict on me look no further than Saturday in WA.
I actually want to look at what I think are the benefits to Liberals Nationals, and not right now, but some times the ALP.
First are there negatives, in not having factions, room in the tent for other views.
The DLP should have proved to my mob, some of who seem intent on re-birthing some thing if not like them as much of a pain in that part as they proved to be.
Katter like the greens and Democrats, One Nation , family first, any 9over ripened egg you choose, can only have impact by Blackmailing governments.
Are say 88% of voters served by the owners of 12% ruling on such issues as shooting in national parks?
Let us first rebut the charge Liberals , or any party, has no factions.
They all do, even the greens and Katters mad hatters.
If we look at the pro,s and cons about just that, factions, and see what our partys would be if they just had one view on every thing.

Good afternoon to you, BELLY ol' man...

I will admit I'm not at all acquainted with the various factions within Labour, but do you as an experienced Labour scholar believe these factions augur well for the party as whole ?

To me, isn't it the old story of divide and conquer, and surely in these arbitrary times, isn't it best to maintain a rock solid, united front for the Australian Electorate, rather than continue with this factionalism ? Which I believe many of the previous, dedicated Labour supporters, are now decidedly sick of ? Particularly after the reprehensible behaviour of some, within the NSW right, and their alleged criminality ?

Still, I don't believe the Liberal Party, (State or Federal) would like to bare their collective souls either ? For any close examination or judicial scrutiny ?

I've even heard there's political turmoil in Melbourne, with the unexpected resignation of their Liberal Premier. And certain suggestions of malfeasance by their Police Minister and Deputy Premier ?

BELLY old mate, I vote we lock'em all up, and lose the key !

I jest of course ? Nevertheless, in my entire adult life, I've never been so utterly and wholly disenchanted, by the complete absence of integrity, and lack of principles, as displayed by ALL our Polititians ?

None, sorry I'll say that a little louder - 'N O N E' are worthy of representing anyone in this country. Each and every one of them, should be divested of EVERY single benefit and allowence they've allegedly incurred. And it should be immediately mandated, that they repay every single cent they've fraudulently misused and squandered in our name. I believe you'd support this measure too BELLY, given how hard you and your team had to toil, for even a modest payrise ?

Seems all we do is talk, whinge, talk, whinge, and talk and whinge some more...until we're all hoarse ? Still, nothing changes, does it?
They just treat us as fools. Perhaps we are ? We must be, we simply continue to tacitly accept it ?

Belly, "My thoughts and point is as every party has factions maybe we benefit from keeping the factions within the whole.
What do others think about factions?"

To be frank and as one human to another, you are going through some internal questioning of what Labor is about and you are repulsed by what you are finding. We all attempt at first to make excuses and rationalise when we find our life views challenged. However if you pull the rug up and sweep the dirt under, then pretend there is no lump you will always feel bad. You cheat yourself, not good.

You know that Labor is not what Labor was. Like the unions Labor has been corroded from within by some very nasty and unrelenting influences and by individuals and groups pursuing their own venal interests. In the microcosm and for far lesser alleged misbehaviour, two football clubs from different codes are being dragged through the mud. In their case would you seek to excuse by saying others might do the same?

Belly, it is better that Labor itself cleans the rubbish out. But like the footy clubs that is not going to happen while the same senior managers can escape by claiming that like the proverbial monkey, they did not see, hear, nor do no (proved) evil themselves.

The many good Labor men and women need the electorate's help to dislodge as many of the Gillard look-alikes as is possible. These people are mercenary, unprincipled and are using the Party and government power entirely for their own benefit.

Should be, "..nor do (proved) evil themselves."

How many people here even belong to a political party? That is to say, pay dues, attends meetings etc. I'm not and I haven't cast a formal ballot in any election since 1996.

Belly, I've got mixed views on the Lib/Nat thing. Electorally I think it costs to have the division (same with other groups on the nominal right of the political divide - One Nation, Katter etc).

It seems harder for those separate parties to win a seat than for a single party representing a broader audience to do so (especially with optional preferential voting). Instead of one candidate from the right needing to fund an election you might have three or four (and I don't think the funding pool is three or four times the size just because their are more candidates).

On the other hand it can give voters a choice in which brand best reflects their own political leanings. How does the average voter let the party bosses know they are unhappy if there are no good independents in a local seat and they can't bring themselves to vote for the other side or the extremists on their own side?

No easy answers.

R0bert

Belly. just because YOUR party is riddled with factionalism and criminality please do not try and label ALL political parties as so. As an active and long term member of The Greens I am not a member of any so called faction! Why? Because I don't known of any factions to join within the party, I do not believe they exist. Unlike your party The Greens is a grass roots democratic party of inclusion, that is members actually get a say in determining party policy and direction. Here is something that will startle you, if you were a member of The Greens you would get to vote for whom will stand for political office in your name, from candidates for local council to those who seek office in the federal sphere, even you could be a candidate, if you so desire and the membership supported you.
The only difference between the Labor right faction, in reality the Labor Party, and the conservatives is a matter of emphases, there is no real philosophical difference when it comes to political direction. The conflict between the two is one of power and who should exercise that power.
I ask you take a look at Wayne Swan, Joe Hockey etc, etc can you tell that there is any real difference in one's political philosophy from the other, I do not think so. Come September 14th cast your vote for Tweedle Dum or Tweedle Even Dummer, it will only make a marginal difference at best.
I actually came across a fellow recently who exclaimed to me he had quit the Labor Party and joined the Liberals, no doubt a rat deserting the sinking ship, I think, he though I would be shocked, my reaction was; "So what, you should fit right in."
Finally, don't hold your breath waiting for Labor Party reform, it ain't going to happen!

onthebeach mate re read your post, how did you get inside my head?
How come you while wandering about in there found reasons for my thoughts I never had.
RObert yes as usual you gave it thought.
Paul, its Christmas! if you are right, and you are not.
Labor will prevail, IF ENOUGH CARE, never ever give up, within todays party lives talent and brave soles who will be there post Gillard/Shorten.
Tomorrow, shortly after my other love NRL I will witness the trouncing of my party in WA.
About 20% will vote on Gillard, no matter what the states needs.
Paul I understand my party is in need of help, we could, by infiltrating a few members in to greens, take them over, but it already is in its death dive.
Inclusiveness, in my mind says the ability to house people of many views in one party, let them have a voice, and the right to cross the floor.
Lack of that right powered the filth in NSW.
However one vote one value, along with abolition of upper houses will do it.
A challenge, did England and this country ever think upper houses would give birth to partys like the greens? holding balance of power over 88% of voters with just 12%

WA was no surprise to me.
The greens loss, Labors annihilation.
Nothing unexpected.
In fact, at best,a Gillard led Labor can only reduce the number it is beaten by.
And that will not be because Australia has changed its mind about her, that will not happen.
However September is a long way away, Climate change, here and around the world will impact.
If Abbott sticks to his plan.
My thoughts here, that both and all party,s are inclusive, is in my view true.
And the best outcome.
But too, both are right now, in the hands of factions.
Dirty word that.
Most stick to using it as a swear word, directed at Labor.
But too wets drys big L Liberals small l ones exist.
And as the tide rises and falls, both sides must give air to the others in their tent.
Why.
There are no Absolutes, and giving that air can stop fractures.