I am, and have been, a fan of Lexis from our first common thread here.
However I often, including now, hold a totally differing view.
I think, in fact believe I know, refugee rights come via the United Nations, and our signed agreement with that group.
Again, while understanding the sometimes, pain of boat people, we need to confront this truth, many more Australians than Lexi would like, would with draw from the UN if given a chance.
Politics is ,unfortunately, not about nice things, Howard won, unshakable, support by stopping the boats.
Labor, while unwisely getting it wrong, *in the eyes of most Australians* is held back in trying to fix the issue.
Malaysia is the answer, remember if the numbers concern some, they fail to see, regional solutions must give benefits to all involved.
Now Labor knows the publics mind, wants desperately to resolve this issue.
But has Abbott,s arms firmly around one leg, trying desperately to see the boats continue so he can stop them.
Greens on the other leg, as usual dragging Labor back feeding on ALP and stopping any true reforms.
We, Lexi please under stand, this is not my wish just fact,are leaving the stopping of these boats to Abbott, and no matter how harsh, he will do the majority's will! stop them.
While Labor, held back by Abbott,s negativity, still could fix it, if greens and fellow travelers could only see maths, numbers, are the driver of policy's not wishes.
Australians, find room to forgive us, in the same numbers that Howard had, want the boats stopped.
We too, yes even within Labor, think the term refugee has been stolen.
These folk are economic would be refugees.
Hurtful? but how else can Democracy survive if majority can not rule?

Good afternoon to you LEXI...

A very vexed question indeed ?

I notice you'd prefer 'On shore ' processing, while many other's prefer to have them processed 'off shore' (including myself). I get a sense from the 'tenor' of your thread, that you're profoundly sick of this entire issue ?

Further, I believe you are amongst those, who would prefer a more humane resolution to this entire question, rather than doggedly pursuing the existing policy of government ?

Therefore ipso facto, you may consider many of us who articulate taking a much harder line with these 'boat people', as card carrying 'rednecks'. Or at least, a inhumane and calloused lot ? In my case you may well be right, I don't know ?

I've carefully examined my own position on this topic :-

Providentially, I was very fortunate to have been born white, and in a very stable first world country like Australia. When there are many other people (millions I suspect), who haven't even got potable water, let alone sufficient, wholesome food ?

On balance, I'm an awfully selfish individual when I think about it ?The parable of the good Samaritan, teaches us all of the virtue of charity. I give a little to a particular charity, here in Oz. Bequested a portion of my estate to the RSPCA. Yet, in this very place (The Forum), I was appraised of the (commercial) misconduct, of some of those in that august Society ? So I don't know Lexi ?

By harbouring real concerns about many of these boat people, proves absolutely, that I'm rotten, inhumane, mean, and callous ? Am I ?

My real problem is, I have this sense (if you will), that something is NOT right about this entire issue ?

If I were to offend, or annoy anyone on this Forum, I can only hope it's not you LEXI. You're my moral 'template' if you like, that permits me to determine that 32 years + of policing hasn't removed the last vestiges of humanity from my thinking ?

Dear o sung wu and Belly,

Firstly a great big hug to you both.
And, no I don't think of either of you as "red-necks"
at all. Or anyone else for that matter.
I respect your opinions and fully understand
them. Of course I don't have the answers to this
complex issue. And as I stated earlier there are no
easy answers or quick fixes. I only know how very
expensive offshore processing has been for us - and
how detrimentally it has affected real refugees, women
and children included. Therefore I think that if nothing
else has worked in the past - why not try on-shore
processing?

This Labor MP has a different opinion. He is a strong supporter of off-shore processing. Who could doubt his credibility in that? See here,

<Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare will wed Louise Tran in December.

His future father-in-law's journey to Australia, via a processing centre in Thailand, and the scheme set up to cope with the post-war exodus from Vietnam was instrumental in persuading Mr Clare that offshore processing was humane and saved lives.

"Louise tells the story of her dad who, on their boat, they went to Thailand but he jumped out of the boat and swam to the shore and begged the people on the shore to let the boat come in," Mr Clare told The Daily Telegraph.

Having previously opposed the Howard government's Pacific Solution, Mr Clare now supports regional processing, similar to the arrangement of four decades ago that paved the way for the Tran family to find a new life in Australia.
..............
"I don't expect people smugglers to give up easily," he said.

"They make sometimes more than $1 million a boat so they are going to fight to keep that market.">

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/asylum-minister-jason-clare-to-wed-migrants-daughter-louise-tran/story-fndo317g-1226504242771

Belly,
I do not believe sending 800 to Malaysia will work, because they will simply go back to Indonesia, like they did before, and find another boat to Christmas Island.

So the Libs will not even try that route. I think TPVs, and no family reunion. No appeals and no legal aid (reserved for citizens only) No leting into community but ALL in detention.

Unfortunately, because they have seen how soft our government is, it will now take tougher measures than before to deter them. The smugglers are only providing a service, the illegals must get the message that they will gain nothing by coming here.

To use Richo's words, 'whatever it takes'. Withdraw from UN and/or set up detention on Macquarie Island, no mobile phones and no computers. Catorgoricly state they NEVER will get residency visa or family reunion. No docs=no processing. You see there are other measures we can take without doing a one sided deal with Malaysia.

How can greens/labor claim their schemes are humane when over 1000 have drowned.

Good evening to you - BELLY, LEXI, & ONTHEBEACH...

I couldn't agree with you more BELLY. I believe, LEXI always speaks with an immeasurable amount of commonsense ? And while it's true, occasionally I can't always agree with her position nor her opinion, nevertheless she does bring a stabilizing influence, together with a degree of normality to the table. And in doing so, allows me to settle down a bit and discontinue my 'chest thumping' rants !

ONTHEBEACH...

That's interesting the piece quoted from Mr Clare - isn't he the Attorney General, or is it, Minister for Justice ? Sorry I don't know ?

This whole question of processing boat people 'off shore' - does it really matter ? Don't they still retain normal appellant access to our Courts ? And didn't one Immigration Lawyer, mount a successful appeal to the full bench of the H.C. ? Sorry, I'm not sure. You seem to be far better acquainted with the jurisprudence associated with Immigration than me, O.T.B. ?

Another question mark, originally raised (in part) by my friend BELLY, if and when the Liberals do obtain government in September ? In their haste to prove themselves worthy of government, might not they institute some wide-ranging measures, to slow these 'people smugglers' down, and in doing so, again incur the wrath of the High Court, similar to that over the 'Malaysia Solution' ?

I still believe, that we've essentially surrendered the right to control, monitor, and regulate access over our sovereign borders. Simply because we were signatories to the UN Convention on Refugees ? I believe that covenant was structered primarily to accommodate the millions of displaced people of Europe, post WWll.

Now, it's both redundant and superfluous to our current predicament. Therefore should it not be comprehensively re-drafted to accommodate existing conditions. Without asking any signatory country to again forgo their right to protect their sovereign Borders.

As it is now, all we have to show, is almost a quarter million refugees, with a government continuing to ignore a self-perpetuating mess ?