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The Forum > General Discussion > Time to name, shame and fine unscrupulous law-makers and regulators

Time to name, shame and fine unscrupulous law-makers and regulators

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Hold on Indi, the police are the cops!
Ludwig,
No, they're not ! Police are officers with integrity, cops are the bent version.
I maintain that we have too many cops & not enough police offers.
Posted by individual, Monday, 28 January 2013 11:20:29 PM
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Ludwig,
Contrary to what you say it is by no means clear that a camper is camped and not parked. For there to be 'camping', and as far as I am aware few Councils have actually come up with a workable definition, presumably the person/s must be lodged temporarily within the vehicle.

So you are asking for Plod to search the vehicles to find evidence of temporary lodging on the spot. But what about probable cause and reasonable suspicion? I daresay excuse can be found. But in doing so aren't you encouraging police to do more harm (to civil liberties) that the person was doing in the first place? If a law does more harm than it prevents.....

That is why police should apply some discretion and go for the solo chum in the overnighting car, who presumably is more likely to foul the area than a person with all mod cons provided within a self-contained camper.

So, what harm is a camper actually doing to provide cause for search? It is lawfully parked but so what?
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 29 January 2013 12:50:18 AM
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Ok Indi, now I understand. But you've got to admit, your distinction between police and cops did need clarification. Yes I agree, there are too many ‘cops’ around.

.

Beachy, me ol’ bum buddy. Oow… I mean …my beachbum pal, the fact remains that it is not difficult to tell late in the day whether a campervan, or hippy-style station wagon or the like, are staying put for the night or not.

And you’ve got to be careful with this police discretion thing. We don’t want it to amount to discrimination against some people, on the grounds that their type might possibly be more likely to soil their environment or something. We really do want the policing regime to be as even-handed as possible, don’t we?

If a sign says ‘no camping’ and you’ve got dirty great campervans blatantly infringing it and one single guy in a car, it would be bit rich indeed for the cops to turf out the poor fellow while leaving the others be.
Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 29 January 2013 6:43:40 AM
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"the fact remains that it is not difficult to tell late in the day whether a campervan, or hippy-style station wagon or the like, are staying put for the night or not"

No, the owner of the camper could be staying in a hotel near, or with friends. After some isolated camping Milady might like some home comforts of a hotel with no meals to make. Few hotels or motels have parking for larger vehicles. Not trying to be awkward, those are likely possibilities.

On what basis would the police issue a ticket? On what grounds would they institute a search? The fellow in a car might be obviously camping. The police might see signs through the car windows.

Were you told to move on or be nicked, and you are upset the alleged campers were not told the same?

Sir Garfield Barwick of the High Court once observed that police have no discretion, and are obliged to issue a ticket where an offence was noted. He may have been technically correct and that would be a law enforcement approach too, but many police realise that the literal interpretation of the law and rigid law enforcement does not make for good policing. Police need public cooperation.
Posted by onthebeach, Tuesday, 29 January 2013 9:26:02 PM
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Onthebeach, you wrote:

<< …those are likely possibilities >>

No, those are highly unlikely possibilities.

<< Sir Garfield Barwick of the High Court once observed that police have no discretion, and are obliged to issue a ticket where an offence was noted >>

Really?

How does this sit with the fact that the police do have very broad discretionary powers… which is mostly a good thing, but which can also be a horribly bad thing if that discretion is not well exercised?

<< Police need public cooperation >>

Bloody oath they do. And one fundamental aspects of getting public support is for them to be seen to be exercising reasonable discretion.
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 10:57:48 PM
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