You started this thread Alchemist - I suppose Open Source is the next biggest iconic brand to hit the universe?

Kevin: Gandhi, Buddha, Mohammed, Christ, Marx...pick your favourite prophet, but not one of them has done diddly to ultimately change the human condition. There will always be those who wield power over one another, and those who put up with it, because that's who we are.

Common sense doesn't prevail in the end. Europe has produced some of the most profound philosophers and other thinkers in the world. They've also produced a heap of wars and dictators in scores, butchering tens of millions in the process. Why would online fora suddenly change all that? You're also assuming that everyone would agree. That's simply not going to happen. Take the issue of abortion, for instance. There's no middle ground. It's an either/or situation, and it's very much based upon one's world view.

Again, you're extrapolating from people on these fora (and plenty of them are in favour of government intervention) to the whole of the country. You list twenty new users and think that's a groundswell. Besides which, as far as I can see, on just about every topic here, it's the same dozen or so people commenting in the main (eg. BOAZ_David, Ludwig, TurnLeftThenRight, The alchemist, Marilyn Shepherd, etc.), with occasional ring-ins. If these online fora are becoming so popular, why have only four of us commented on this thread (for a grand total of thirteen posts)? Why haven't we seen thousands of users posting tens of thousands of posts?

Take time to contemplate my responses shorbe - how reasonable they seem is dependant upon how much as a person, you are consumed with the past or alive to the future. I chose my words carefully, "bit by bit".

The potential for accelarated change has never been so great - the reason......?

Simple, everything is connected.

Alchemist, I don't know if you have ever studied the Swiss version
of democracy, but I quite like it. Rather then vote once every few years, people vote every few months, on various issues.

Our version means that once you've given whoever the nod in the ballot box, they will decide your opinion on just about everything for years. I'd rather have a rather say on more issues, as the Swiss do, thats true democracy.

One interesting thing about it that I noticed, the level of political understanding among the public grew, as they debated issues that they were going to vote on. Often what the public wanted was quite different to what politicians wanted!

The internet should actually make that kind of system far cheaper and more cost effective, then the present system of voting. If
we say could all establish our identies on a card reader, they are quite cheap actually, then vote on all sorts of issues on a regular
basis, public opinion would be taken note of far more then it is now.

Much of today's politics is bogged down in parties, rather then
issues, which is a great shame.

Yabby, I've looked at the Swiss system, it works well. They're very communal in their political outlook, we aren't. People should be able to decide any decision effecting them that comes up, except those platforms politicians campaigned on and got voters approval. Regular non compulsory technological voting on matters, is the way of the future, all others have failed us.

Shorbe you've brought the I was hoping people could avoid, ideology. Your point on abortion sums it up, there's no middle ground because people refuse to look beyond their ideologies and see things from the individuals involved and work on that

Why there's only 4 of us on this thread, you can answer yourself. Browse the threads over the last year to see where people minds are, completely locked into illusion. Threads on the environment, health, alternative energies, water, pollution, indigenous affairs, meaningful subjects, get little support or comment unless it directly effects people now. No interest in the future, just their now. Threads on ideological illusions in people minds are filled, saying the same thing over and over. Doesn't that ring any bells in your head as to the revolving door syndrome the majority are in.

It'd be simple to turn this country around, give everyone virtually free power, cheap fuel, a full say in politics. Good health, eliminate 95% unemployment, crime, save the environment, and have sustainable lifestyles, where people didn't have to slave their entire lives for the economic gain of a bunch of morons, who are destroying everything.

OLO gets thousands of hits a day by people who read the thread, but don't necessarily involve themselves. Just like letters to the editor, of the millions thinking about current affairs, 99% do nothing. They read what others say, if it sounds rational they take it on board.

I hoped there were enough sensitive people around who'd debate a new political approach without bringing their personal ideological demons into it. As that's not the case, we have but one outcome, environmental and economic collapse, revolution and war, more death and destruction.

If us 4 had developed a rational debate, bringing forward good ideas, others would follow it. However as usual, its turns into I'm right your wrong clashes.

Doesn't that show an infantile unevolved mind deserving of extinction, considering the lack of care towards the planet and other life forms living here, giving the conditions for life.

For the earth, there's no other option but to remove the cause of its collapse, humans, There's no getting away from that and none of the delusional ideologies has a verifiable answer, but hope through violence, against all and sundry.

Politicians are hell bent on selling everything because they have no concept or experience in operating anything, but their selfishness. We've invested our future management of our country in those who are giving away our assets to their friends, removing our income and asking us pay more. Not only that but most of the money is going overseas

Would you invest in company whose management is selling of the assets to the opposition, then expecting the shareholders to give them more money to subsidise the opposition so they can charge us more. Our foreign debt shows the real economic situation, not the domestic illusion the fools give us.