Alchemist, I agree with your concept, in both computers and politics, but I think that only a small % of the population really think too deeply about life and even politics. I mean, if you look at how that nutcase George Bush won elections, his advisers knew just which emotional buttons to push, scaring little old ladies to vote for him, as Osama was coming to their neighbourhood etc.

So I think that sadly alot of elections are won and lost by those
sorts of issues.

I still have some hope for the world, mainly actually because of the internet, as I feel that its going to open peoples minds around the world a little over what would have been before. Communication, discussion, debate etc, can only broaden peoples minds, which has to be a good thing.

Meantime I just live life by my philosophies. My two sheepdogs would be about the only ones around here to have their own beanbag by the fire :) I still think that whilst world population is increasing by 80 million a year, we are going downhill fast. Look at what happened in Easter Island. If we are not very careful, the same thing will happen globally one day. Methinks it probably will.

What really annoys me is that the Catholic Church and its offshoots still try to encourage population increase. The Philipines for instance, where poverty is rife, which has a population of 80 million, they are suggesting why not 130 million etc. Its just not sustainable! Imagine the pressure on Australia, when Indonesia's population gets to 500 million! Sadly the first to be wiped out are other species. Orangs are not far off now, many other species will follow. I still believe that up there in Rome, the Vatican, nervous about Islam, is trying to outbreed them, thats why their contraceptive policies. Forget the religious stuff, up there in Rome, they want power for Rome and that comes down to numbers of
true believers.

The alchemist: I don't vote. I'm not even registered. Democracy is the tyranny of the masses. It's all very well to talk about open source, but open source doesn't coerce anyone into anything. Democracy does. Unless people arrive at a political consensus voluntarily, then it's just more of the same. Given that I don't think people will arrive at a political consensus voluntarily, then at some point, it goes beyond agreeing to disagree if we're going to do "what's right for..." and becomes coercion.

I'm not trying to save the world, although I will always help those near and dear to me. Indeed, I think a large number of the world's problems are caused by people who want to save the world. The road to hell is paved with good intentions as they say. Maybe if people just minded their own business there'd be less grief. Personally, what I want to do is largely envelope myself in my own little world. I want to get some land in the country, be as self-sufficient as I can (be bothered with), and the rest of the time, largely operate within the black economy whenever possible. Selfish, I know, but at least I don't have any grand designs for telling (or making) others how to live their lives.

For me - I think we are watching and even participating in the birth of 'open source' politics. It is taking place all around us - this forum is a vehicle for such - we are influencing politicians more than can immediately be seen. Soon there probably will be no such things as politicians - there will simply be on-line discussion for a period - then when it seems everyone agrees - a period of focused action will follow and then a return to on-line discussion to agree the next stage of making the world better and supportive of everyone’s needs.

Everybody can see that politicians are not being listened to or agreed with any more.. their lies/diatribe exposes their self-interest more and more every day. They are not interested in the 'common good' only their own power.

I love these discussions - I love the internet - people (despite what the established media still say) are everyday, bit by bit, more and more taking constructive action (common sense is always obvious) to sort out the problems that politicians are still scared of and in denial about. This is why they rant and become dogmatic. Deep down, they know no one is really listening any more. They are like sparks falling on water at the end of a great fireworks display - a lot of bang and bright lights – but no staying power – destined to fizz out after only a short blast.

Thanks for this thread Alchemist - keep up the good work - you never quite know who may have read what you have had to say - and the ideas and inspiration that may subsequently come...

The important thing is to not leave all the 'talking' to wierdo "leaders". For obvious reasons, they, least of all, have the common good in mind when deciding the future. The future is for everyone to decide - because the future belongs to everyone.

"Soon there probably will be no such things as politicians - there will simply be on-line discussion for a period - then when it seems everyone agrees - a period of focused action will follow and then a return to on-line discussion to agree the next stage of making the world better and supportive of everyone’s needs."

Kevin: There will always be people who want to wield power over others and do so. If not politicians, then kings or some other cretins. Also, do you really believe that the entire populace would agree on a whole range of issues? Even if everyone knew what the "correct" course of action were, I guarantee there'd still be a whole lot of people who would disagree. What makes you think everyone would agree if the "correct" course were open to debate then?

I'd love to think that politicians were becoming irrelevant, but the truth is that they're not. A large portion of the populace sees them as necessary in order to "do something about X" (for X, insert any of the following: terrorism, interest rates, petrol prices, the environment, youth gone wild, inappropriate urban development, job moving offshore, the neighbour's barking dog, etc.). If the populace doesn't see the job being done correctly, then it's only because in their mind, there are too many politicians of a particular party and not enough from another. They don't see politicians as the problem to begin with. As such, these clowns in government think they have more of a mandate to "do something about X" and so at all three levels of government, we have an ever-increasing level of intrusion into our lives.

Finally, you're also assuming that OLO is representative of the general populace. How many people out there even give a fig about online fora? Most are probably watching their favourite TV programmes right now.

Yabby, You express you view very well, even though I see what your saying, you're already contributing to open source politics and ideologies, by being on this forum. What effect that has, for you and those accessing this forum is not for me to say. Yet underneath what you express, I see someone very dedicated to seeing justice done to those who inhabit this planet. Maybe not in a public way, but within your life.

Shorbe, believe it or not, I'm fully in agreement with your position and the actions you've taken. I didn't vote for many years and only registered when I thought I was in a place where my vote would make a difference. Sadly I didn't fully understand about compulsory forced and unconstitutional preferential voting, so it means nothing. I think voting should be compulsory, but I also believe you should have the right if its that important, to opt out. If you decide to register, then you take the consequences for not voting. If you don't register, or ask to be de-registered, then that should be your right. But then we must accept and live with the decision others make.

K$vin, sorry cobber don't have a pound sign. What you say is perfectly true, very perceptive and something we should all implement to rationally move our society forward and embrace open source politics. Its the next step for us, irrelevant to our beliefs, we're no longer and ignorant illiterate people. We're empowered by our ability to understand all things in life and as you say, its at our finger tips. Now we just have to develop the outcome we seek for everyone, then debate how to attain that to get an acceptable future for all.

For me the first priority, is accountable politics. Make them fully accountable for their decisions that haven't been fully endorsed by the people and we'll see some dramatic changes. Maybe 99% of politicians will resign, and real people will step up and be accountable for their methods providing the best outcome for what the people want and a viable sustainable future.

Shorbe:

“There will always be people who want to wield power over others and do so” – it takes two to tango. Remember Ghandi? Just one man standing up to bullying changed India and the world.

“Even if everyone knew what the "correct" course of action were, I guarantee there'd still be a whole lot of people who would disagree.” - Common sense always seems to prevail in the end.

“They don't see politicians as the problem to begin with” – really – have you spent much time on these fora?

“Finally, you're also assuming that OLO is representative of the general populace. How many people out there even give a fig about online fora? Most are probably watching their favourite TV programmes right now.” This is changing every day – I repeat -“ I think we are watching and even participating in THE BIRTH of 'open source' politics.”

Everyday, I see this (and it changes)….

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