I was aghast at this, first believing that it was malicious political gossip that Australian Senators, Christine Milne and Lee Rhiannon would lend their support to it. But sadly, the news reports confirm what Milne and Rhiannon did.

Just forgetting the political parties, it is unimaginable that a member of the Australian Senate or the House of Representatives would do this. Have they no inkling of the ethics and principles that should apply to their very senior representative positions? Have they no shame for what they did? It is serious stuff.

<Greens leader Christine Milne has endorsed a controversial hoax by an anti-coal activist, saying his actions were ‘‘part of a long and proud history of civil disobedience, potentially breaking the law, to highlight something wrong’’.

Senator Milne’s comments came after a tweet by her colleague Lee Rhiannon, who publicly congratulated Jonathan Moylan, an activist who is the subject of an ASIC inquiry.

Mr Moylan sparked a sudden sell-off in Whitehaven shares on Monday when he released what appeared to be a press release from ANZ Bank.>

Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/political-news/milne-endorses-whitehaven-hoax-20130108-2cerk.html#ixzz2HRPxcnCX

It was very foolish of Milne & Rhiannon to publically come out and
advocate such behaviour. They could in fact be leaving themselves open
to prosecution for advocating a criminal act.
There might be something in their wording to get them off the hook but
not saying it in parliament leaves them in the same position as you & I.
I just think they do not understand what they have said. I have always
thought they were rather silly women, oh, the mysogeny, as was shown
when I attended a meeting at NSW Parliament House where Rhiannon was present.
She raved on about something in which she was completely out of her depth.

What Milne has to say from 6 min 55 sec onwards in the video at http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-09/greens-back-anti-coal-activist-after-media-hoax/4458272 tells us what an extremist Milne is.

She supports Jonathan Moylan standing up for his belief by his illegal actions. Imagine if we all did that.

The Greens should'n't be involved in running a chook raffle let alone a country.

Although I am a Green I also was appalled at their support for a damaging lie. The fact that the actions of members of other political parties are not always above reproach does not excuse it.

Careful there Chrissy, the ratbagery is showing through. Most of us knew it was there, but that, like Brown, you could keep it hidden.

At least Brown waited until he was retiring before he started openly talking to the little green men. Now we have to wonder if these fool women are actually little green men, in heavy disguise.

How can anyone have the gall to remain in the Senate after that? What does it take for an Australian politician to resign? These are Senators who boast that they keep other politicians honest.

Bazz and onthe beach,

Horrified is putting it mildly. I would like to see consequences imposed for their actions, along with the perpetrator.

Neither of them are fit to hold their positions.

Who in their right minds would even think to endorse a hoax after learning of the millions of dollars lost as a result.

No wonder support for the Greens is falling. The Mad Hatters tea party comes to mind.

Onthebeach,

They'v both demonstrated they obviously have the gall to come out with those kind of statements, but both major parties should publicly condemn them for these statements.

Just one more example of why there is waning enthusiasm for the Greens.

Labour courted them, and it has bitten them on the b*m. The penalty they've had to pay must be a bitter pill for them to swallow.

Really think these two females have left themselves open to further proceedings, and hopefully pressure will be brought to bear to do this. The comments as you say were made outside of Parliament, so as citizens they should be prosecuted at the least for deliberate mischief.

Bazz,
Latest arrival figures. Can't find them anywhere.

All I can say is that these girls are no Rachel Carson.

David f>> Although I am a Green<<

What is green dave? Are Milne and Rhiannon green?
Why active over coal, but no action over CSG wells spoiling arable land and polluting our water tables?
Whats green? Who is green?
Rachel Carson was green. These two are red, but the simpletons might not know it.

Dear sonofgloin,

The Greens are deeply concerned over CSG. In fact we had a large joint meeting with Katter's people and the farmers whose lands are affected by CSG. CSG in Queensland has been favoured by Labor, and Campbell Newman's LNP continues to support it. My local member, Seath Holswich, followed the party line when I wrote him on the subject. The LNP and Labor are as one on this issue.

a result of our socialist education system where public servants and bureacrats make their fortune from the public purse and often envy those who work hard. No one is really surprised are they? Soon people will sound surprised that Mr Swan could not balance the budget in black. Shock horrow as if the Greens/Labour were ever responsible citizens.

If the Australian Senators are Greens, expect anything.
I wait in anticipation for Paul's contribution.
But we can rest assured, both sides want an end to them.
We can help.
Back that unpleasant Bishop Lady,s plan, an end to preferencing few understand.
One vote one value,let the majority be heard.

You can't blame the overexcitement.
Hearing news about a swindle involving both coal *and* the stock exchange was the first time in years they've had an orgasm.

Perhaps the lost wealth should be recouped from the Greens electoral funding (until the end of time or the party, whichever comes first).

The Greens aren't Leftists or extremists, they're middle class Liberals who live vicariously and try to score points through the actions and sacrifices of others. Anti coal protestors may well be trying to bring down hydrocarbon dependent capitalism but the Greens are not, they're part of the growth lobby, they don't genuinely oppose any of the capitalist agendas.

Oh! The mass indignation, shock horror, Jonathon Moylan pulls a stunt which could have cost a few Capitalist a couple of bucks and all hell breaks loose. The reaction of the conservatives at the news that something has been done to attack the bastion of capitalism, the Stock Exchange no less, call out the National Guard, no, better still call out the Kangaroo Court, ASIC. I would have thought the ANZ Bank would have thanked Moylan for pointing out "the mines do not comply with the Equator Principles for Financial Institutions in relation to cumulative assessment, biodiversity conservation, health, occupational safety, cultural heritage, land conservation and the promotion of renewable energy." But then again the banks are to busy fleecing borrowers and ripping of depositors to worry about "principles" what principles.

Paul1405, nobody took you seriously before, and nobody does now. I wonder why?

Thanks for missing the point so perfectly, Paul1405.

>>Oh! The mass indignation, shock horror, Jonathon Moylan pulls a stunt which could have cost a few Capitalist a couple of bucks and all hell breaks loose.<<

The capitalists are not the issue here - the "losses" by the market-bots who were fooled by the stunt are of course entirely balanced out by the "gains" made by astute dealers who seized and opportunity to make a buck.

The problem that you try to sidestep is the fact that a Senator, part of the democratic machinery that creates law in this country, openly applauds the act of someone who is flouting the law.

Whichever way you look at it, this is an untenable stance. If she genuinely believes that laws may be selectively ignored, then accepting taxpayer funding for the role she plays in formulating those laws, is a despicable act.

Hypocrisy doesn't come into it. It is theft from the public purse. From me and you. Pure and simple.

Don't worry about biodiversity Paul, we have plenty of pretty strange biology here in Oz.

Of course much of it is masquerading as human, & voting green, unfortunately.

Paul1405, "nobody took you seriously before, and nobody does now."
Luciferase. As you know how everyone thinks would it be fair to describe you as a know all. From your posts you seem to present yourself as a financial guru, but can you boil an egg?
"the "losses" by the market-bots who were fooled by the stunt are of course entirely balanced out by the "gains" made by astute dealers who seized and opportunity to make a buck." Pericles, its a terrible thing when that poor little market-bot get fooled, but I'm so pleased the astute dealers are doing well. Between the pair of them can they boil an egg?
Belly as usual "I (Belly) wait in anticipation for Paul's contribution." You got my contribution.
How about one from you on your boy Brendan O'Connor and his attack on Abbott for being a volenteer fire fighter in NSW, which is incidentally fair dinkum on Abbotts part, I for one give the Mad Monk the thumbs up for his genuine effort. Seems there are those in the Labor Party who would see peoples homes burn as long as there are no votes for the Liberals in it. What do you think of your boy O'Connor now?

I like this cartoon.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/the-hoax-we-had-to-have-20130110-2cix8.html#ixzz2HdXEEywz

Nothing like a tickle-up for the free market.

Paul1405, glad to answer your troubling question. Rather than waste keystrokes explaining how to boil an egg, I refer you to http://www.helpwithcooking.com/egg-guide/how-to-boil-egg.html

You are so Green that you also need to be taught how to suck eggs, for which I can find no reference, but you could ask your grandmother.

Finance is obviously another of your weak areas. If you're puzzled how how someone might lose their shirt through an immoral hoax on the stockmarket, re-read the posts of others who have tried to elucidate the matter for you.

Pericles, for once I agree with you.
Here we have lawmakers applauding lawbreakers.

If might be different if you thought the law itself was wrong, but I doubt the Greens (or anyone else) will be holding street marches to decriminalise *fraud*.

>>Oh! The mass indignation, shock horror, Jonathon Moylan pulls a stunt which could have cost a few Capitalist a couple of bucks and all hell breaks loose. The reaction of the conservatives<<

Not just the tories Paul: I'll still watch the ABC and hate the Liberals but this *former* Greens voter is distinctly unimpressed with the party leadership giving the thumbs up to common criminals.

If you think that market fraud is a victimless crime - or a crime where the only victims are greedy fatcats who don't count - then I would urge you track down and read a copy of Terry Pratchett's 'Going Postal', paying close attention to the life and crimes of the protagonist.

$314,000,000 is not 'a couple of bucks': that would be $2 - a difference of some $313,999,998. I'm guessing arithmetic isn't your strong suit. Maybe some greedy fatcats did get burned - and maybe some mum & dad investor's nest egg disappeared in a puff of bullsh!t and they can look forward to trying to make ends meet on the pension.

Fraud is a crime for a reason. I hope they throw the book at the little punk.

Cheers,

Tony

I see this issue differently than some.
Most agree the bloke is an idiot.
As are the greens, for just being them selves.
And for throwing votes away by backing him.
MEDIA! jumped on his press release, it is known, ONLY ONE contacted those involved.
Was told it is untrue.
But ran the story in any case.
Who lost out?
Who knows for sure, I may have via my super fund.
Shares falling then rising say both loss and gain took place.
Did anyone.
In the media outlets, knowing it was untrue,make money out of the knowledge they printed, knowing it was untrue.

Belly said;
In the media outlets, knowing it was untrue,make money out of the
knowledge they printed, knowing it was untrue.

Spot on Belly, someone might have bought a large number of shares
before they filed the story that they had confirmed that it was a fraud.
This is why such activity is a crime, it enables a form of insider trading.
I wonder how many Greens bought shares when they fell ?

Belly how are you going on your piece on O'Connor? Silent,

A list of histories criminals:

Mahatma Gandhi
Nelson Mandela
Michael Collins
Lech Walesa
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
etc etc.

These people all have at least one thing in common, they are all guilty of "breaking the law."

>>These people all have at least one thing in common, they are all guilty of "breaking the law."<<

You seem to have a left a few off your list there Paul.

Some more of histories criminals:

Kenneth Lay (of Enron fame)
Al Capone
Frank Abagnale Jr.
etc etc.

Not only are these people all criminals - they are all fraudsters just like Moylan.

Cheers,

Tony

The right to peaceful dissent exists in a democracy. What Moylan has done is not peaceful.

Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Lech Walesa and
Solzhenitsyn did not live in democracies. They protested peacefully and were wrongly punished.

Michael Collins lived in a democracy, warred with the government militarily, lost, and was punished by the victors.

Mandela did not live in a democracy, was a freedom-fighting terrorist who lost a guerrilla war, and was punished by the victors.

Where does Moylan fit in?

Oops! leave Nelson out of the second paragraph.

Apparently some Senators think some supporters of green ideology should be encouraged to do whatever with impunity.

They have shown in the past to damage expensive equipment, drive metal stakes into trees that endanger the lives of sawyers, board ships illegally, attempt to disable ships, cause damage to rail lines carrying coal, tresspass on famous landmarks and paint slogans on them, etc.

They take the high moral ground and thus should be protected, no matter what they do.

Luciferase, not only do you know what everyone thinks and a financial guru to boot, you are also a legal eagle. can you tell me under what law Jonathon Moylan was charged, and in what court (other than this Kangaroo Court) was he convicted?
My question to you was "can you boil an egg?" Good to see you were able google up an answer to the egg question and to my list of people.

Banjo: "They have shown in the past to damage expensive equipment, da da da da da,,," The senators or the supporters? When and where?

Tony. Poor old Al got done for tax evasion, plenty of small business in Oz doing a bit of the same, are you say they are Al Capone's?

Paul,
You are a baby if you do not recall the green activists on the south coast of NSW damaging logging equipment and driving steel spikes into trees to endanger sawyers lives.

No the greens have no real or moral responsibility. They care not if people lose jobs or endure hardship, their ideology is the important factor for them.

Paul1405, the force of your argument is so compelling that I must yield.

Carry on defending indefensible fraud for all you're worth, the Greens party hack that you are, and beware the next election.

Patience, Paul1405, patience.

>>can you tell me under what law Jonathon Moylan was charged, and in what court (other than this Kangaroo Court) was he convicted?<<

No charges have yet been laid. According to the Oz Business Section...

"...he could nominally be up for a $495,000 fine and/or 10 years in jail. He has not been charged. The Corporations Act says it is a criminal offence to disseminate false and misleading information to the market, whether or not the disseminator has any intention to make money out of the action."

Whether he intended to or not, Moylan created opportunities for his friends, for reporters, for stockbrokers etc. to make a killing from the hoax information. One stockbroker has already admitted that, realizing the release was a hoax, he took advantage of the temporarily low price to dip into the stock. This could of course leave him open to the charge of insider trading, but I think everyone involved expects the trades to be reversed by the Exchange, as soon as they have worked through the detail.

Personally, I don't believe he should be charged, but not because I condone his actions, which I consider simply "look-at-me" self-indulgent, but because it would only serve to pander to his obvious narcissism.

If he had thought it through, he would have realized that the publicity from such a pointless stunt is far more likely to settle down in favour of the victims, than in promoting his cause.

So if he has any smarts at all, it is obvious that he only did it for self-promotion. If he did it because he is dumb enough to think it would make a difference, then he deserves our pity for his stupidity far more than he deserves a jail sentence.

"he (Jonathon Moylan) could nominally be up for a $495,000 fine and/or 10 years in jail.
I call for the crucifixion no less of dear old Jonathon (first offense), teach him to mess with the man! In fact I want Gillard and Abbott the leading pair of politicians who support Australia's legalised murder in Afghanistan to nail him to the cross. Hoist him up, I say, outside the stock exchange no less, show the masses who runs this berg.
p/s Dear old Jonathon might not be to keen on my idea, but sacrifices have to be made. I'm sure Jonathon will take his crucifixion on the chin when he realises its for the greater good, etc etc.
What a beat up this whole business is.

In case you had forgotten, Paul1405, this thread is about Senators supporting lawbreakers. Specifically, accepting that in circumstances that meet their political objectives, a little bit of fraud is perfectly ok - even heroic.

I doubt Moylan will be charged, basically because the offence caused so little actual damage. Some dollars were made and lost, some feelings were hurt, and some reporters with itchy fingers and a distaste for fact-checking will have egg on their face. But apart from that, it was nothing but a petty mixture of spite and vainglory.

But the willingness of a party-nominated politician (very few people actually vote for the individual, do they) to endorse illegal acts is extremely damaging to our institution of government.

Or at least, it bloody well should be.

Paul1405,
Are you walking free or are they looking for you ?

>>I call for the crucifixion no less of dear old Jonathon<<

Always with the most extreme position possible. Is moderation such a dirty word Paul?

I can easily understand why people like yourself would so valiantly leap to defend Moylan: because they're not very bright.

But I don't understand what they hope to achieve by doing so. Ever heard the phrase 'own goal'? They're not usually regarded as a desirable outcome. Your team might want to reconsider their gameplan - maybe bench the fraud-supporting idiots for a spell and let the less loony lefties handle this one.

Cheers,

Tony

Pericles. I always take you as a person who thinks before they post, not the type to waffle on about crucifixions and such stuff, (I would have called for Johnathon's burning at the steak, or boiling in oil but CO2 and all that, put those options out of the question.) Back to my point, yes I would think you would be armed with all the facts before you post. But what about this clanger!
You said: In reference to my friend and favorite Senator Lee Rhiannon.. "very few people actually vote for the individual, do they" Lets take a look at the 2010 NSW Senate Vote, the top 3 personal votes.

LEE RHIANNON (Greens) 22776
John Faulkner (ALP) 12522
Concetta Well (lib) 12194

They love the woman all most double the personal vote of the candidates from the big 2. Lee's personal vote was only slightly less than the total vote for a bunch of crack pots like One Nation.

For me Jonathon Moylan is guilty of nothing more than showing up the ANZ Bank for its hypocrisy. There are those in society who say "I support peoples right to protest," What they don't say is as long as that protest doesn't alter the 'status quo' and doesn't impact on them.
In 1970 Jim Cairns (ALP) led a protest by 100,000 people in the streets of Melbourne,against the war in Vietnam all over Australia many of us protested against the war, often unfairly targeted by the police and those supporting the war. I personally seen members of the Nazi Party of Australia helping police arrest protesters in George Street Sydney in 1970. Don't kid yourself, Australia is not the safe little democracy that we all would like to think it is, if too many step out of line too far, then democracy will be tested. When Johnson visited Australia, NSW Premier Robin Askin (Lib) told their driver to "run over the bastards (war Protesters)." did anyone on the right call for Askins arrest for insighting a person to commit murder, no of course not.

Hi individual, nope, I'm still on the loose! They haven't got me yet.
Hasta la vista old buddy! Why hasn't Belly Ache been back to post his explanation about Brenden O'Connor, must be to busy sticking pins in his Gillard doll, opps sorry Abbott doll, he got for Xmas.
p/s Who the F#%k is Brenden O'Connor, hadn't heard of him until he tweeted something about "the Mad Monks a pyromaniac, who's after your vote" or words to that effect. I think this bloke's a twit for what he tweeted about Abbott, What do you think Belly? Run away and hide, in scrub. like usual when a question is put to you?

Individual asks Paul 1405: <<Are you walking free or are they looking for you ?>>

Locking Paul up would be equivalent to catching a house fly in a jar.The science has moved well beyond such crude measures.
Now what they tend to do is genetically modify the fly and release it into the wild. When it mates/mingles with its wild cousins
it causes all sorts of system crashes/confusion.

They took one look at Paul and realized there was no need for modification, he already had all the necessary prerequisites.
Instead, they gave him a free travel pass to attend as many Green meetings as possible.

I think you have, most generously, proved my point, Paul1405.

>>You said: In reference to my friend and favorite Senator Lee Rhiannon.. "very few people actually vote for the individual, do they" Lets take a look at the 2010 NSW Senate Vote, the top 3 personal votes. LEE RHIANNON (Greens) 22776<<

Of the 443,913 votes cast for Green candidates, Ms Rhiannon's personal share (assuming your numbers are correct - I couldn't track down the source) was approximately five percent. Also assuming she was the most popular of the six Greens on the ticket, statistically speaking far more people voted "Green 1" than voted for an individual.

Your other examples are even more illuminating, given that Mr Faulkner's votes represented 0.8% of the Labor vote, and Ms Well's share of the Lib vote was even lower at 0.75%. Surely this indicates very clearly indeed that "very few people actually vote for the individual, do they", with the consolation prize to Ms Rhiannon that she had greater name-recognition within her Party than the other two "faves".

But more to the point...

>>There are those in society who say "I support peoples right to protest"<<

This is generally held to be a conditional right, contingent upon that protest staying within the law. We do not have much of a restriction on, say, the right of peaceful assembly, which enabled Jim Cairns to mobilise his anti-war troops in 1970. And we do allow the police at such assemblies the right to arrest people who actively break the law, e.g. throwing bricks, etc.

I am aware that the line is sometimes crossed in mass demonstrations. But the act we are discussing here did not involve the emotions that infect and energize at such events.

>>...did anyone on the right call for Askins arrest for insighting a person to commit murder, no of course not.<<

I don't think you will find that Ms Rhiannon will be charged with incitement to commit fraud, either. But I suspect that suggesting it is ok to support lawbreakers will turn out to be a bad career move.

Pericles, What is your view of "lawbreakers" as it applies to either civil disobedience or out right law breaking as a form of peaceful protest, such as people like Martin Luther King Jr insighting civil disobedience Mahatma Gandhi making salt in defiance of British law, Americans not paying a tax on tea etc etc. Today these people and others are viewed as shining examples of people fighting injustice, but at the time viewed by many as trouble makers and rabble rousers who broke the law and should be locked up. there must be a line, I am a non violent person, who supports peaceful protest, and do not condone any sort of violent acts in support of an objective.
When is a terrorist a freedom fighter? Answer, when he is on your side.
p/s I'm not trying to put Jonathon Moylan in the same class as a Gandhi or a King, far from it, but it is interesting.

Thoreau - Civil Disobedience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_%28Thoreau%29

It was a radical, unlawful act that was likely to result in harm to others. This is not what anyone would accept as civil disobedience in a free and democratic country.

A personal gesture that might mildly inconvenience other innocent parties in the process but not through deliberate intent is another matter entirely.