sonofgloin: "Mh, as I have attempted to explain to Atheist Dave, you can't be absolute right now. There well may be life in the universe, or there might not."

Errr, yes but my point was only as concerns this solar system as is the question in the original post. I think we can be absolutely certain there is no intelligent life on these 9 (or so) planets other than that which exists on number 3.

As to the universe...who knows. We stand a chance of answering that question as regards our particular galaxy in the next millennium or three. But the distances to other galaxies are so monumental that finding or talking to anything that might be there seems spectacularly unlikely.

As to our galaxy, I'd guess there isn't anything out there either. There might have been in the past but if a civilisation existed now that was even 2 or 3000 yrs ahead of us (a mere blink in time) they'd have long since made contact or sent their robot fact-finders.
Check out the theories behind the Great Filter .... http://hanson.gmu.edu/greatfilter.html

Sonofgloin,

I believe it is possible that a very long line of invisible turtles resting on a giant elephant is holding the earth in place. I believe it is possible that fairies are really at the bottom of the garden, Bigfoot exists as do leprechauns. I believe it is possible that your comprehension will improve over time. Are you agnostic regarding these examples?

There are arguments against holding such beliefs which lower the possibility of them being true to being highly improbable. Personal gods or creator gods are in this category.

Anything is possible, but what is probable is another matter. It would be unwise to base ones life on what is highly improbable.

Language is a valuable tool, try to not abuse it.

It would be a good idea to continue this discussion in the Christmyth thread and let opinions about extraterrestrials continue here uninterrupted.

David

AFoAI>> I believe it is possible that a very long line of invisible turtles resting on a giant elephant is holding the earth in place. I believe it is possible that fairies are really at the bottom of the garden, Bigfoot exists as do leprechauns. I believe it is possible that your comprehension will improve over time. Are you agnostic regarding these examples?.<<

David, I am simply asking for a single statement of belief. I

t should be "there is no god, I am an atheist". Instead you refer to the Brothers Grimm. So whether I post on this thread, or on your thread, I won't get an answer will I?.....haven't so far and my last few posts can't be more specific, Dave do you have another atheist on the team that I could talk to sport?

>>Can there be logical explanations?<<

Here's your logical explanation right here:

http://stuffucanuse.com/fake_moon_landings/moon_landings.htm

>>Not my fault that I don’t know what you think….but your incorporated Atheists of Australia by definition plainly takes a stand against a creator.

If I am wrong and you think there might be a creator, …forgive me sport. Could it be the new Incorporated Agnostics of Australia? If so I might join Dave.

Just to clarify…the reason you challenged me is because I asserted that you believe there is no creator<<

No Gimli: the reason Dave challenged you is because you asserted that he was absolutely assured there is no creator:

>>on the atheist thread Dave was banging on with absolute assurance there is no creator<<

Dave probably takes issue with your conflation of belief and certain knowledge - and the logical implication that atheism is a gnostic position.

http://reason-being.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/chart.png

Gnostic comes from Ancient Greek - it means 'pertaining to knowledge'. I think it is possible to know some things with absolute certainty like 2 + 2 = 4. I am gnostic on the subject of arithmetic: I think you can have certain knowledge about the solution to an arithmetic problem. When it comes to religion things get a bit fuzzier: I believe in a god (of sorts) but I admit that I cannot have certain knowledge about god's existence - merely faith. I am agnostic on the subject of religion.

Theism is also from the Greek and refers to a belief in god. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God. Whether or not people are certain about their beliefs is a whole different question. I believe in God so I'm theistic but my belief is dependent on faith so I'm agnostic - I'm an agnostic theist. Dave doesn't believe in God but his disbelief is equally dependent on faith - if he had a conclusive disproof of God he'd have published it and we'd have heard about it - so Dave is also agnostic. He is an agnostic atheist.

I have never met a gnostic atheist although I'm sure they're out there. Gnostic theists are more common - people who claim that it is possible to have certain knowledge of God's existence. Yuyutsu - one of the more interesting characters around here with an interest in theology - seems to hold a gnostic position. So does our runner but I recommend you avoid feeding the troll. But mostly I meet agnostics of either persuasion: people who don't sit on the fence and often have strongly-held beliefs - but admit that they can't be absolutely certain.

Cheers,

Tony

Sonofgloin,

"Dave (David) do you have another atheist on the team that I could talk to sport?"

Sure, lots of them, but none that could breech your self-imposed impenetrable mental barrier to logic any better than I can.

Of course, protesting too much as you do, is a very good indication I have already achieved that.

David