$375 million dollars is to be diverted from the aid budget to help pay for costs associated with asylum seekers in Australia.

Foreign Minister Bob Carr says that this is totally justifiable and still falls within the definition of foreign aid. Just about everyone outside of Labor and some within say otherwise.

It is a vexed issue. I don’t want to see our aid budget reduced, which is effectively the case here. But neither do I want to see the enormous amount of money that asylum seekers are costing the country lead to less money for health, education, etc, etc.

Perhaps the better thing to have done would have been to allocate money of this sort of magnitude from the aid budget to decisively stopping the boats.

This would hopefully only take a one-off cut to the aid budget, whereas the diverted money that will be spent on refugees will not address the core of the problem and is bound to carry on next year and the year after… until the government gets it through their thick heads that they have to take the strongest possible action to stop this incredible onshore asylum seeking debacle.

Surely the thing to strive for is a complete shut-down of onshore asylum seeking and a boost to foreign aid to 0.5% of GDP, and then to the UN-recommended 0.7% a few years later.

As Tim Costello says, this money is vastly more effectively and efficiently spent in addressing poverty and other issues related to refugeeism in countries that require that sort of aid, and in bringing perhaps 20 000 of the most needy of refugees to Australia each year via our formal immigration program, than it is in paying for onshore asylum seekers once they have reached Australia, or its offshore detention/processing facilities.

Should Labor have diverted this money?

Is it being wisely reallocated?

Has Labor broken yet another promise by going against their plan to increase foreign aid to 0.5% of GDP?

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/labor-mp-slams-foreign-aid-cut-20121217-2bjd1.html

http://afr.com/p/national/diversion_of_foreign_aid_absolutely_krbkM981Vf4zB3uWj3RiVO

Well Ludwig, I am no fan of the government but ultimately it is paid
by the taxpayer.
Look at this as just the first change that is to take place.
When/if the coalition takes over there will have to be a lot more of this.

Where does charity begin. It is still foreign aid, being spent on new arrivals.

Ludwig,thanks for what will be an interesting thread.
We however can not ignore the truth in Bazz post.
Sure offshore aid is to suffer.
But in truth these boat economic refugees have been doing that for ten years.
Jumping the Que, and getting refugee spots others should have.
I can see the dribble to come, redneck rage at Labors apparent owner ship of this massive increase.
NO DOUBT they play a part.
As Abbott,s dream to be PM has.
But while we in my opinion MUST STOP THE BOATS, how do we do it.
Ludwig truth is if these interlopers.
Did not come, several BILLION dollars could be spent on things such as the currently unfunded disability scheme.
In the end those screaming in rage against our failure to stop them.
Leaves this question. how would you stop them, to every poster who blames Labor
Greens? hang your heads in SHAME.
An easy ride for them yet, they are as intractable as Abbott.
And in the end they hand the issue to Liberals to fix.

As most of you already know, I have a serious problem with Foreign Aid as a matter of course. For all the rhetoric & Politically Correct Speak very little of Foreign Aid gets where it supposed to go & what does get to where it's supposed to go does little good. In fact half of it does more harm than good.
There is a good lecture in TED Talks by Ernesto Sirolli. “Want to help someone? Shut-up & listen.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXsLtHqfdM&playnext=1&list=PL09F124638C1B6513&feature=results_video
Now I know that some of you refuse, point blank, to look at something that may be different to your ideal. But I implore you to watch this. Its terrifying.
Should we be cutting our Foreign Aid? Yes.
Should the cut be going to the Asylum seekers? No.
Where should this Aid money be going? To help our own people who need Aid. EG, Homeless & the disabled.

I think it is a good thing but like usual Labor will stuff it up.

Now if the money was taken from the cause of the boat problem it would help stop them namely Indonesia and Malaysia after all they let them into there countries KNOWING they are not tourists but are on there way to Australia. (Indonesia receive more money from us than any other country)

Notice how the charities are jumping up and down in protest, 1 reason is if you can get the figures check out the salary of the top executives. For them charity begins with thyself.

Belly - Quote "But while we in my opinion MUST STOP THE BOATS, how do we do it"

The only way to stop them is to take away the golden incentive.

EASY ways.
1) No documents - send straight back home.
2) Do what Germany and others do they get a fraction of the welfare German citizens get and mostly food stamps.
3) No bringing the family and relatives.
4) NO ACCESS to free legal aid.
5) SAME AS THE UN DO SOME FOOD & WATER and a TENT to live in.
6) The slightest antisocial activity you are on the next plane home.
7) Build refugee camps in the most inhospitable part of the NT.
8) For every boat $12 million dollars is taken from Indonesia's aid.
9)DO THOROUGH BACKGROUND CHECKS - not like the one that accepted cap't Emad.
10) Withdraw the navy from Indonesian waters let them pick up the refugees them self.
11) STICK THE UN REFUGEE CONVENTION in the bin.
12) If you bypassed a safe country to get here, you go home.
13) Make them work for every cent they get.
14) NO pension unless they have worked for 20 years.

That should do it.

Philip S: Notice how the charities are jumping up and down in protest, 1 reason is if you can get the figures check out the salary of the top executives. For them charity begins with thyself.

Spot on Philip. You are dead right there.

Charity begins at home. If you can’t look after yourself you can’t look after anyone else. So let's look after Australia’s Aid needs first, then what's left over can be sent to help others who need Aid but only after a catastrophe.
Feeding the starving in northern Africa only breeds more starving in North Africa who will need feed so they can breed more in a never ending cycle of disaster. Let the Islamic Countries look after their own. They have never done anything to help their own people. They have relied on the West to provide Aid as a way of paying the Yitzah Tax that Non Muslims are obliged to pay to Muslins for not being Muslim.
As far as the Boat people are concerned. These people should only get bare basics. This would be the greatest deterrent to them coming here.

Belly said;
But while we in my opinion MUST STOP THE BOATS, how do we do it.

If I were Prime Minster I would go to Indonesia, first letting their
government know why I was coming, just so there could be no excuses.
I would tell them that we will be turning the boats away and give
them enough fuel to at least get to Indonesia.
If they sabotage the boats we will rescue them and then deliver them
to the nearest Indonesian port.
An alternative could be that everyone arriving in Malaysia or
Indonesia be photographed and copies of their passports be sent to
Australia. That however would not immediately stop the boats.
Also Malaysia might refuse to cooperate.
Unless both agreed, then it would be ineffective.

If Indonesia objected I would tell them that they are bound to accept
Indonesian vessels and crew and passengers under the Solas treaty, and
that we will not accept their refusal.
I am presuming here that Indonesia is a signatory to Solas.
If they are not I still cannot imagine them turning them away.
The rescuing vessels would not be fired upon when they arrive.
Think about the implications if they did.
It would be best if civilian vessels were used instead of Navy ships.

A few comments on Philips' suggestions.
The only way to stop them is to take away the golden incentive.

EASY ways.
1) No documents - send straight back home.
Agreed.

2) Do what Germany and others do they get a fraction of the welfare German citizens get and mostly food stamps.
Agreed.

3) No bringing the family and relatives.
Agreed.

4) NO ACCESS to free legal aid.
Agreed.

5) SAME AS THE UN DO SOME FOOD & WATER and a TENT to live in.
May not be practical in the wet season.

6) The slightest antisocial activity you are on the next plane home.
Agreed.

7) Build refugee camps in the most inhospitable part of the NT.
NT Government may not be happy with all the burden.

8) For every boat $12 million dollars is taken from Indonesia's aid.
Agreed.

9)DO THOROUGH BACKGROUND CHECKS - not like the one that accepted cap't Emad.
Background checks are usless. This is what may happen.
They front up to the address they gave and the pre primed people say
oh yes Mohammad, the local chieftain threatened to kill him.

10) Withdraw the navy from Indonesian waters let them pick up the refugees them self.
Agreed.

11) STICK THE UN REFUGEE CONVENTION in the bin.
Agreed, it certainly needs renegotiating.

12) If you bypassed a safe country to get here, you go home.
Agreed.

13) Make them work for every cent they get.
Agreed.

14) NO pension unless they have worked for 20 years.
They would get to this situation if they had permanent residence.

That should do it.

However much better if they never got here in the first place.
Now all this will have the bleeding hearts hyperventilating, to use
a current phrase, but as I warned some years back, they will get
bigger ships and bypass Christmas Island and put them ashore in some
out of the way inlet North of Perth.
If you think that is fanciful, that is just what they do in Europe.

Ok, so what about an idea I posted on another thread, whereby we build purpose built ferries for our navy to intercept the boats, transfer the people and return them to Indonisia, arrest the crew and burn the boats at sea.

Surely once enough crew get arrested, people returned, having lost their cash and the leaky boats burned at sea, these people, their crews and the smugglers would get the message that the lucky country has turned sour.

Quite simply, if we don't stop the boats, the likes of this latest ploy by labor will simply get worse, until we see huge declines in our services.

I particularly like the idea of redirecting aid funding from Indonisian to fund this debacle.

After all if they (Ind) did their job, the boats wouldnt arrive in the first place.

Hi there JAYB & PHILIP S.

Firstly, I watched the 17 minutes or so of that Link you supplied us with. An interesting concept and I'm sure that it's worthy of consideration.

The only problem I can see (perhaps) is between the ideal and the execution of that ideal ? Whenever we have human involvement, that involvement is where the problem(s) arise.

And PHILIP S.

I thoroughly support your views and the remedies you've so kindly suggested herein.

One of your early points, you say send them home ? Where's home ? And apart from Sri Lanka, who'll actually take them back ?

And how do we overcome that 'bloated' 'wheezing' and categorically corrupt behemoth, the United Nations, PHILIP S. ? Both of our major political parties, are so stricken with fear of this monstrous rabble (luxuriating in New York City), I'm so ashamed to be even associated with 'em.

You know JAYB & PHILIP S., None of us need worry, neither of our political leaders will do anything meaningful. Just 'jump up and down' a few times in Parliament House, and move on ?

They know it, I know it, and you, the population of Oz know it ?

I sincerely believe, Australia is now the weakest nation in the world. We incapable of even protecting our own sovereign borders.

What a shameful state of affairs.

God help us.

Philip S,Bloke please be informed I will at every chance, avoid your hot headed non productive posts, here comes a bus good by.
Another poster informs us we should cut aid, but not spend it on ECONOMIC REFUGEES.
Quaint
So we starve them.
In fact we need Abbott or more likely his successor, to put boat people back in his tool bag.
Circumvent the greens, and do ANYTHING IT TAKES INCLUDING Malaysian Solution, but both party,s in conference, think of Australia, not politics.
IF shopping you find you are short of cash, we often give up one thing to buy another.
Increasing red neck shouting here is ignoring just how hard it will be to stop these boats.
For the incoming[ yes it will be so]Liberal government too.

How competent was Howard compared with these school kids? I don't think even the Greens could of stuffed this process more than Labour has. I am amazed that many of them have not resigned with shame. Having shameless PM and Ministers and calling it tough still deceives a few rusted on voters. I dare say the likes of Beasley won't be in a hurry to come back from the US. I remember how thrilled he was when Rudd was elected. Now all I suspect he could feel is shame.

Let us clear our heads, those who have that ability that is.
International law tells us people with out papers are no easy task.
Existing law says we can not deport them, why do some think they destroy their paper work.
And not funding them? come most would think you are jokeing! some unfortunate are not.
Turn the boats around THREATEN Indonesia, a nation of 30 times our population?
Sure send the bloke who said that armed with body bags to do it.
One will be enough.
Red necked rants about leaving the UN , a host of silly ideas.
YET THESE REDNECKS DO NOT WANT TO TRY THE ANSWER!
Malaysia
Leave you folks to it, you will see a lot of posts but unfortunate this interesting thread will bring more silly answers than answers.
Given government right now, this instant, Abbott would not be able to fix this over night.
See he is hoping it continues and has crushed real answers.
All the best Ludwig, I must avoid such threads once the infection takes hold, rant and shout but have no workable answers or even understanding.
I want the boats stopped,am unconcerned at the cruelty in doing it.
But can not mix with the blindness of some.

Dear Ludwig,

Senator Bob Carr stated:

"It fits OECD Guidelines for the expenditure of aid money.
Spending money on refugees who've landed on Australian soil
is as valid as spending it on refugees who are in refugee
camps around the world."

The same thing is done in the US, Canada, France and Sweden.

Senator Carr also added that "Overseas aid programs were
not being cut, but some may be delayed until the next
financial year."

Bazz - Point 7) is critical we have to make it so unbearable that they will want to leave and that includes lock them up for YEARS more than 5

o sung wu - Right the UN is useless for the BILLIONS of $ it sucks up I challenge others to name 5 things that it has accomplished that benifited the world as a whole. Send them home if it is too unbearable they will suddenly remember where they came from.

rehctub - Probably cheaper to go to Indonesia and buy every boat and turn them into matchsticks.

Jayb - What can I say except WE ARE THE LUCKY COUNTRY WE HAVE NO HOMELESS REFUGEES - but we have thousands of homeless Australians.

Belly - Quote "Philip S,Bloke please be informed I will at every chance, avoid your hot headed non productive posts, here comes a bus good by." $10 bet says you can't, you may pretend to but you are hooked your curiosity will not let you

Here are 2 examples of the stupidity of asylum laws.

1) In 2005 A former New Zealand bikie was given refugee status in Australia after seeking asylum from fellow criminals.
A tribunal decided that the 36-year-old Kiwi, who was in a witness protection scheme before flying to Australia in 2005, faced a threat of significant harm in his home country. The Government at the time appealed this they did not want him here - BUT - the Federal Court cleared the man to stay because of the government's own protection visa rules.
The man was warned when he arrived in Australia that if he committed one offense on his temporary visa he could be removed.
BUT - Since arriving he went on to drink and drive, commit forgery, and breaching his bail conditions. He has also been charged with weapons and drugs offenses, and receiving stolen property. JUST WHAT WE NEED.

2) We have also granted asylum to a Bangladeshi man who feared he'd be killed if sent home to face charges over comments he posted about his prime minister on Facebook. Either a very stupid man for doing that or intelligent because he knew he could use it as an excuse to get asylum.

Belly - Reality check please Malaysia deal

We give them 800 people and have to financially support them in Malaysia.

They give us 4,000 and we have to support them financially and house them.

Can't you see the economic stupidity of this deal. WE PAY FOR EVERYTHING.

In the last 3 months we are up around the 7,500 mark coming here.

Again I agree with you Philip. The Malaysia deal is just plain silly. The aim is to stop these boat people not just delay they for a few weeks.
Bazz’s List. I agree with everything on this list. I have done similar lists in the past myself as a way of practical solutions. I think everything on that list I have stated at sometime in the past. These lists have been ignored in the past with the excuse. “It’s not our job to find a solution.” A weasel out from all those who complain the most when asked to provide a possible workable solution. The ones, who only want to do the “feminine thing” & whinge about it, not want an answer to the problem.
Belly. You asked the question, “How would you stop them?” A question that has been answered many times in these forums. I think you will agree.
Indonesia & Malaysia won’t help stop the flood. For one they don’t want to be responsible for them in their country so the quicker they can get them off their shores the better for them. The other reason is; it’s a covert invasion of Muslims into a non-Muslim country to spread their diabolical faith. Both Indonesia & Malaysia, being Muslim Nation, are supporters of this Policy.
None of the present Political Parties in Australia have the slightest bit of interest in finding a solution for the Asylum Seeker problem. It is conveniently being used as a distraction from the many other problems within Australia.

With tongue in cheek I suggested another solution would be to agree to take them only if they submitted to immediate sterilisation upon arrival, or they would be returned to country of origin. As most illegals are young Muslim men who believe their women should produce at least 10 children, one would think this would be a suitable deterrent.

I heartily agree with every one of your comments Bazz. I also see this as a covert attempt to eventually turn this nation into a Muslim one as JayB noted.
The obvious place for them to want to flee to would be another Muslim country. Why else do they bypass these countries who conveniently are unable to stop the boats. It is so transparent even a fool should see through that. Seems we have enough fools in charge who don't, or won't admit this is true.
But don't forget the Greens either. They are all in favour of opening the floodgates, and Labour needs them on side for other ill thought out decisions they make. They need the Greens to be on side at all times to support them in order to maintain their present tenous hold.
Possibly this subject resonates so strongly with so many voters, that an election could be won or lost solely on this, as we all stand to lose so much in so many ways - not just our hip pockets.

I would just ask one question of you all commenting on this thread. Are your comments based on the humane values which lurk some where in your inner selves and which you might well would teach and expect from your own off-spring and grand children? Perhaps better a bleeding heart than a bloody minded sociopath.
Den71

DEN71: Perhaps better a bleeding heart than a bloody minded sociopath.

Ah ha! Our first bleeding heart response. So now anyone who doesn't believe in opening the floodgates to every supposed Asylum Seeker is a bloody minded sociopath. Great start from the bleeding heart society. Next we'll have the rest of gang crying in their milk & calling those who wish to preserve our uniquely Australian Culture all sorts of dastardly morons from hell. They'll say that we have to accept them & adopt their Moronic religion & it's Middle Eastern values. Or die.

No, even the UN Refugee Charter agrees that they are no longer Refugees if they have crossed multiple borders looking for a better place. Look it up. It's vague, like all Laws, but it's there.

To those bleeding hearts. How many of you have applied for the adoption of an asylum seeker, seeing you will be responsible for them. Hands up please.

I have said it before and here it is again.
"If you want to stop the boats coming then you have to withdraw from the UN Convention on refugees and the simply turn the boats around at gunpoint.
If you don't then you are eventually going to have to face the Muslims within at gunpoint.
chrisgaff100

Jayb - good question.

Will be interesting to see how many people would be willing to take on that financial responsibiliity. When they do,then the rest of us may heed them, acknowledging that deeds speak louder than words.

Den71, Somehow I don't think that if they were still alive, our soldiers who were endeavouring to win the hearts of the muslims who killed them would call such people deserving of our sympathy.

Neither would the innocent Australian girls they have raped.

chrisgaff1000, I too have said it before.

Do we act now, or, do we wait until they arrive with guns.

Who knows, it may already be too late, as they may well have a back up plan, but don't want to be the instigators. God knows, there's enough of them.

Perhaps it's Indonisias way of provoking a war, cause let's face it, Australia is a very desirable country, esspecially to this who have no regard for the likes of human rights, equality or the environment.

Stop & Look;
It is too late to worry about the ethics of it all.
DEN71 and those who think like him are now like dinosaurs and out of touch with reality.
It is an invasion and the pace is picking up.
It is now a brutal decision on sending them back even if they are under threat.
We have no choice, we either just open the gates and let them in no
checks, nothing, or we clamp down now while we still have some control.

Belly, we can insist on Indonesia honoring its treaty obligations.

Luddy, with the greatest respect, I believe that your threads name is too macro.

"Foreign aid diverted into asylum seeker costs"

IMHO should be

"Foeign borrowings earmarked for aid being diverted into asylum seeker costs"

Subtle, I know, but foreign aid begats a perception of wealth. We were wealthy in early 2008, but we are poor now.

DEN71>> Perhaps better a bleeding heart than a bloody minded sociopath.<<

Sosiopaths Den?

Like the ones who yesterday murdered 8 aid workers who were giving polio vaccines to the children of Pakistan. Or the ones who fly with documents to Indonesia but arrive here like orphans, unknown and un traceable. That you deem anyone who questions the illegal’s motives as sociopaths displays your ignorance of the word I am afraid to say as I know you are literate.

I may add Den that the vast majority of the illegals are not sociopaths, they are zealots, and that is worse because they work in unison as opposed to the majority of sociopaths who are insular individuals.

Belly,
You did ask the question and when you get some suggestions you brand the posters as rednecks. I was willing to give the Malaysia scheme a go, even though I had serious reservations about it, but the courtknocked it out. 800 for 2000 doesn't seem a good deal anyway and many of the 800, unless locked up, will simply go back to Indonesia for another go. Quite a few have tried several times.

PhillipS, Bazz and O Sung Wu have said about all I would have. We simply do not give them what they seek, make it not worth the risk and effort and they will stop coming.

Phillip,
I appreciate your examples of our stupid residency laws, heres another.
A non citizen was convicted of drug dealing. After serving his time he was to be deported but appealed and was allowed permant residency because he claimed to be the father of a child born here. Don't know even if he had to prove he was the father or simply claimed to be. So he gets to stay here because he had sex with some woman who was silly enough to allow herself to get pregnant. The court stated it would be hard on the child, not to have her father, a convicted drug dealer. Some father!

O Sung Wu, you said. "I sincerely believe, Australia is now the weakest nation in the world. We incapable of even protecting our own sovereign borders.

What a shameful state of affairs".

I could not agree more.

I agree with just about everything stated by Philip S, Bazz, Jayb, Belly, rehctub, o sung wu, runner, chrisgaff1000 and worldwatcher.

Jayb, that is a very interesting presentation by Ernesto Sirolli. It has caused me to think long and hard about the whole aid thing.

While I have always been a strong supporter of the UN-recommended 0.7% of GDP in developed countries being spent on aid, it has got to be the right sort of aid. Arguably, most of our aid money, now and throughout the history of our aid programs, has by and large not been the right sort. The glaring absence of financial support for population control / limits to expansionism / sustainability issues springs to mind.

I am not so sure any more that increasing our aid budget would be the right thing to do. Perhaps refining it and striving to the best of our abilities to make sure that it achieves maximum positive outcomes is what we should be doing as the first priority. And we can probably do this while at the same time as actually reducing it.

Of course now that a huge wad of money is to be redirected from the aid budget into asylum seeker support, the government should be very particular about what is to be cut in our aid programs. In fact, they should be using this as an opportunity to undertake a total overview and refinement of our aid programs.

I see this as being very closely linked to the whole asylum seeker issue, although it is not something that is often mentioned in this discussion.

We as a nation should most definitely be showing a high level of compassion for those vastly less well off, but it has got to be properly focussed, and focussing it on onshore asylum seekers is a terrible mistake.

Now, if the likes of Sarah Hanson-Young and Christine Milne were to focus on refining our aid programs and offshore refugee-assistance efforts instead of on supporting onshore asylum seekers of dubious or certainly lesser claim for refugee status…

If only.

Just a thought.

WE would only have to sink a couple of these boats, & post vidio of this on face book, & the boats would stop like a switch was thrown.

Probably cost less lives, theirs & ours, in the long run.

I wonder if we could do an enactment, & have them believe it was real? Probably worth a try.

Ludwig: Jayb, that is a very interesting presentation by Ernesto Sirolli. It has caused me to think long and hard about the whole aid thing.

This is a lesson I learnt in 1968 when the Poms pulled out of Malaysia. I've told this before but I feel it needs repeating now. Every Company had a small village to look after with Aid in Malaysia. When the Poms pulled out our company was allotted one of theirs. A small fishing village. We went there, spoke to the head man about what he wanted & did an assessment of what was needed. A few weeks later we turned up with timber to repair the fishing boats, string to repair their nets & seed rice to plant for the next harvest. Bricks & cement to repair the school. The deal was that we provide these things & they provide the labour. However when we arrived the head man came out & asked what we were doing. We explained & he refused to let us unload the materials. He said that we were to give him the money to buy these things, then leave. He would look after the distribution. That was the system that they had with the Poms. In other words, He keeps half & gives the other half to his brother who keeps half & so on down the line. That way they don't have to fish or plant rice & they have enough money to live for the year.

We drove off & kept the material & the head man complained to the Australian High Commission who promptly visited us in an extremely agitated state. So we took him & the materials to the village & let the headman explain the situation to the AHC. The AHC shook his head & didn't want to know any more about it. We never went back to that village.
cont.

cont.

& So it is with Aid everywhere.

It was the same situation in Indonesia after the tsunami. The Australian Forces had been there for 6 months before the UN arrived on site. They had arrived in Jakarta 3 months beforehand, set up in the most expensive Hotel & had 3 months of Conferences before going out to the scene of devastation. Once they arrived on site the UN ordered the Australians to leave as they, the UN, were other only ones that had the expertise to deal with a disaster. These people are still waiting for help. Most of the money allocated to the disaster went to pay the UN's Hotel & transport bills. A sad but true story.

Jayb - What you say about the UN backs up part of my earlier post
Quote "the UN is useless for the BILLIONS of $ it sucks up I challenge others to name 5 things that it has accomplished that benifited the world as a whole."

There are many more instances that show it to be Useless Nations not United Nations.

Banjo - It is 4,000 we get not 2,000 No one with half a brain would go such a deal.

I have said many times here that Indonesia DO NOT WANT TO STOP THEM the more that come the greater the financial and social burden, they are undermining the country makes a takeover easier in the future.

Don't forget Indonesia are in Surplus while we are DEBT billions of dollars yet we give the foreign aid, next we will be giving aid to Bill Gates may sound stupid but so many things this Government do are.

Phillip S,
Sorry about the error. I'll try to improve,promise.
You are right about the UN. Others here, like Yabby, have said the same.

Indonesia gets economic benefit from the illegals. They need food and accomodation while waiting for the boat. If they did not get any advantage, they would kick them out quick smart. We are the fools.

Banjo - In Indonesia and Malaysia the Government gives them NOTHING so to stay the majority have to work illegally for some food and somewhere to stay a lot get nothing except that for hours of work the employer can call the police on them anytime if they give trouble they are the perfect slaves.

They know Australians do not want them but they have no alternative but to come to the land of the golden handshake & welfare for life.

Phillip S,
But not all of the illegals are broke either, that is a furphy put out by the illegals advocates to paint them as being poor and under threat. They pay big money for false travel docs and bribes to officials, then many times more than the going air fare to smugglers. Former workers at detention centres have told how many store their gold and US currency in the centres safe whilst there.

There is no two ways about it, the illegals are shonks and we are taken for a ride.
They have been stopped from coming before and they can be stopped now, it is just a matter of enforcing adequate deterants.

Getting back to subject, I do not particually mind cuts to foreign aid but the money saved should benefit Australians, not wasted on illegals. Foreign aid should be directed toward stemming population growth.

Banjo - You are right, that's why I wrote "the majority have to work" there are then left a reasonable number that more than likely have more money than me.

Cap't Emad apparently had a number of shops in Malaysia yet was accepted - the checks they do are useless

A hard time is coming as growth disappears and economies try to cope
with high energy prices.
We have our own version of the Greek disease and whether you have multi
billions of debt or multi millions of debt you are still in debt and in
a zero growth era or a contracting economy if you cannot pay your
debts you are still in strife.

I don't think Tony Abbott is aware of what we face and certainly Julia
Gillard and Wayne Swan haven't a clue otherwise they would not be
committing to such large future expenditures.
The only real hope we have is that Abbott and Hockey will set up a
trend to start cutting back before it is forced down their throat.
The fun times are over and smaller and cheaper government will be the
only option.

could not help but feel very sorry for the poor Sri Lankans on 7.30 report last night for being sent home after being lied to by people smugglers. Rudd and the Labour party are squarley to blame for creating such a mess where false hope and serious danger was offered to these people. Surely they could never again claim to be the compassionate ones. They are disgusting in their use of politics leading to the misery of so many, the death of a thousand plus and the wastage of billions of dollars on a problem they created along with the Greens.