David,

I've debated with myself after reading all the threads, whether to ask a polite question without risk of offending you.

As I've previously said, I also had a religious background as a child, but in my head then I wasn't tortured by thoughts of hell. Rather my idea of God was more that of a nebulous figure who would back up my parents when they sought to disipline me [on the rare occasions I needed it :)].

So, here goes. Do you think that your upbringing as a Catholic was so damaging that it has carried over into adulthood for you?
Is it possible that other variations of religious belief can more easily be left behind?

Speaking just for myself, I honestly don't think there is any religious residue left from what I was taught as a child. Have given this a lot of thought, because there are plenty of other things which have stayed with me as an adult. However, we were taught to have respect, be kind to other people,and the main one I remember is " If you can't be nice, try not to be nasty". That has really stuck in my head over the years.

I appreciate this thread has stirred deep emotions within Forum ranks which is a shame, because as individuals, regardless of belief/non-belief I'd like to think we're basically all good people, and even words can be hurtful - once given, they can't be retracted.

AFoAI>> Curses, she cried. I'm wasting a post. The link I supplied was wrong. This is the one to which I was referring.<<

Yes David I agree, the post limitations break the flow of a thread. Can’t think of a valid reason for it, but I don’t know the issues the administrator has seen…must be a reason.

>> sonofgloin, As you are obviously not reading the thread and just taking pot-shots using an obvious very inferior weapon every now and then, read this previous post and maybe even go to the links provided. Now, isn't that a novel idea.<<

Had a look at the link…tell me how the percentages given give an overview of the number of people worshiping around the globe? This from your link:
TREND IN RELIGIOSITY INDEX AMONG
40 COUNTRIES SURVEYED IN BOTH WAVES 2005/2012

Pakistan went up from 78% to 84% +6% Pakistan has a population of 190 million

Iceland went down from 74% to 57% -17% Iceland has a population of 320 thousand

David your link then totals up the 40 national percentages and gives a definitive…religion is diminishing globally…..How does that work? It answers nothing.

David you are right I did jump in, I dived out at page 10, but I am back.
Where goods are being sold at ridiculously low prices, I will be there.
Where music is played for free, I will be there.
And for you David:
Where a psychological penchant becomes a pseudo religion, I may as well come too.

worldwatcher,

As to your point about my upbringing making me into an ‘angry atheist’, well there is some truth in that but not as you imagine. My upbringing was most interesting and it taught me heaps more than intended by the various religious components. It gave me the knowledge by my own understanding and by observing those around me at the time that children can be very susceptible to messages given as truth by the authority of adults. Supernatural threats and promises make these stories very believable. On further investigation on maturing I found that the ‘truths’ didn't exist.

And still more investigation demonstrated very clearly that these truths were less than beneficial to many parts of society and indeed to civilisation as a whole.

By a set of circumstance I found myself in the position of being able to do something about this situation and therefore I do.

There is no great mystery here. I have no ill feelings toward the nuns, brothers, priests and those of religious persuasion in my social group. To me, they were the victims of nature and nurture.

I had the fear of hell as did most of my peers but even though I overcame that it was obvious that others did not. It is a constant theme in the interactions I have with atheists and the religious. You must remember that I have contact with countless people of faith and no faith as a part of being the president of the AFA. And having been in the AFA for about 30 years, I know how underrated is the strength of the fear of an eternity of torture. Even many religious people are in denial about the terror they feel on the topic.

The clue to something is wrong with the loving of a god that would allow torture forever for some people is why anyone would love such a monster. The Stockholm Syndrome is possibly the answer.

David

Worldwatcher>> because as individuals, regardless of belief/non-belief I'd like to think we're basically all good people,<<

I just want to say that WW in no way represents my thoughts about individuals on OLO.

Paul.

AFoAI>> The clue to something is wrong with the loving of a god that would allow torture forever for some people is why anyone would love such a monster. The Stockholm Syndrome is possibly the answer<<

I think that WW may have a point.
David you are definitely possessed by saints and demons from your formative years. The above impassioned critique of the “bastard in gods clothing” exhibits a deep psychological wound regarding authority …lol.

Bottom line sport is that I say there is a possibility that there is a creator…it may be a formula, it may be an entity, but there is an alpha…. and we may find it complies with physics.

Is your issue with the concept of a god or the manifestation of it through religious observance. In other words do you hate god or do you hate mankind. Because god or not, mankind is your oppressor. Now there is a truth for you.

David just to let you know I have no personal animosity towards you. But you take it upon yourself to discredit the views of the faithful….why sport? Is it the only philosophical view that you carry, I mean you started up your own incorporated org to battle the faithful. There is a vast difference between an opinion and a mania, what caused your mania?

sonofgloin,

“David your link then totals up the 40 national percentages and gives a definitive…religion is diminishing globally…..How does that work? It answers nothing.”

57 countries were surveyed as an indicative-sample by Gallup.

The dropping-global religious numbers is a sideline to what I was saying. If you can’t imagine how hard it is to get accurate figures, even in Australia, on religiosity, then you are deceiving yourself. But even in Australia with distorted figures the non-religious demographic is increasing very rapidly.

Just for a moment imagine trying to get the truth about religious proclivities in Iran, Pakistan, Uganda and a multitude of other nations. Lives and livelihoods are under threat for divulging such information. Stop trying to make a case when you don’t even know the realities on the planet where religion is involved.

People are being killed and imprisoned for apostasy in many nations and the threat is always there. If you consider for an instant that people being fearful can bring accurate stats on religiosity, then you are living a dream.

And to bring you down off the self-erected-pedestal, the statistics include children under the age of fourteen years. Do your really believe they are little Muslims, Christians, Hindus etc. They are parroting parents. In Australia that is 20% of the population – in the developing nations it could be 30%+. Even adults are confused by religion. If you have a point in all of this, can you clarify it?

The AFA has been operational for about 42 years and was not started by me. I am its third president.

And the proof for your alpha entity is…..?

That you say I have deep psychological wounds is very funny. Have you heard of projecting?

There are all kinds of possibilities but non-delusional people do not support such ideas or act on them until they turn into probabilities. I know that is a bit much for you to comprehend.

Yes, you are correct; there is a difference between a mania and opinion. Mania doesn't require thought. It is my hope you think about that, but you probably won’t.

David