Josephus,

I suppose you know that I know that it is pointless having meaningful discussion with you. Unfortunately, you are too far gone into fantasy land to be able to discern fact from fiction. That's OK but it is a warning to others that religion can lead in this direction.

Australian politicians are allowing this kind of mindset into the state school system and some children will be affected in this manner. This is beyond disgraceful.

I honestly thank you for supplying the opportunity to provide an insight into your mind and your narrow interpretation of reality. Your critical thinking skills have been wrenched from you by others. I think you should blame them and not me.

And just for your interest, the position of president of the AFA is an unpaid voluntary one and it is quite demanding on my time.

I suppose you think I am fulfilling the Stephen Hawking video and gaining souls for Satan. Of course, you won't admit that you even watched if you did, which is unlikely. And one has to accept that the fictional character of Satan actually exists. All atheist and that includes me, don't.

I wish you well.

David

Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc,
For your information, I also do not believe in a singular being called Satan. My commentary on the book of Job, as my defence against Gnosticism outlines. The term satan in Hebrew means any opponent, and equally refers to any opposition. In current thought he wears human clothes, and is an opponent of good attitudes, character and behaviour.

Obviously your reading of my views is very faulty. I do watch the Stephen Hawking presentations but do not accept his unfounded conclusion regarding his dismissal of a Creator intelligence.

Josehpus,

Yes, I was using the common interpretation which possibly originated as exampled here. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=satan

"Although Hebrew storytellers as early as the sixth century B.C.E. occasionally introduced a supernatural character whom they called the satan, what they meant was any one of the angels sent by God for the specific purpose of blocking or obstructing human activity. [Elaine Pagels, "The Origin of Satan," 1995]"

Can I take it from that, you believe in the official nasty, the 'Devil'? I, of course, do not.

I think that Stephen Hawking would accept your disbelief in his views and I am absolutely sure he would not threaten you with hell for not accepting them.

David

Josephus,

I’m not sure where I’ve said, or how I’ve implied, that you accept everything religious people believe or say.

<<I do not accept everything religious people believe, as my writings as an independent thinker will show, nor everything I hear from pulpits.>>

With literally hundreds of contradictions in the Bible (http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf), you’re obviously not going to believe EVERYTHING others say and believe. You need to cherry-pick the parts that suit you - seemly unaware that truth is not something we can pick and choose as we please.

<<I fear no retribution or rejection as you would like to believe.>>

And I didn’t say anything about rejection either. David was right; you are not reading the words of others.

<<However I do support intelligent understanding of spirituality and the revelation of the character of God in our world. The revelation through persons who are made in God's image and have his heart.>>

But again, though, how do you know this? How can you verify that it is his heart we have and not just our own? Because the Bible says so? Were we given God’s heart, or did we give God ours when the Bible was written? Did God create us in his image, or did we create him in ours?

The evidence for God, and the way in which he reveals himself, is pretty damn poor if there are other more rational explanations.

<<Persons who show selfess care for others, who have the capacity to hold no ill toward an enemy, and do genune deeds of kindness for them.>>

And again, for this to hold any weight, you would need to demonstrate that all this is impossible without God.

I’d also note that this runs in complete contradiction with runner’s evidence of God; which is apparently revealed in our “Adamic” nature. According to runner, we’d all be perfect had God not existed and the fact that we’re not perfect is proof of his existence.

The concept of the Devil is a Roman idea expressed in the Greek; if goodnes comes from God then evil comes from one who opposes God.

Jesus uses the term to identify ideas opposed to, or a corruption of the truth of God. He says to orthodox Jews who tried to identify him with a pagan god Baalzebub. They upheld their orthodoxy as sons of Abraham because of their geanealogy. Because they had corrupted the truth Abraham held Jesus says,"You are of your father the Devil" - meaning your belief is opposed to the grace and truth of God". The truth being "There is only one God". [The universe though diverse operates as a unit.]

Josephus,

That didn’t answer the question I asked nor did it make much sense.

I’ll ask a few more.

1. Do you believe the Devil is a real entity as you believe your god is?

2. Do you believe the Devil entity exists in Hell?

3. Do you believe the ‘souls’ of ‘sinners’ go to Hell and are tortured by the Devil entity and/or its minions or both for eternity?

4. Do you believe that children should be indoctrinated with these ghastly ideas?

5. Do you believe the demons cast out from humans into swine, apparently an act of mercy by Jesus (in one version of the 'event) instead of sending them to Hell, were real demon entities?

(Footnote: Jesus wasn't all that merciful to the swine as they not only had uninvited demons forced into them but they subsequently drowned – I understand that animal rights groups at the time were outraged as well they should have been)

David