Good to see that finally someone in the federal sphere has had the intestinal fortitude to take on the powerful Catholic Church. In this case Prime Minister Julia Gillard setting up a royal commission to uncover the truth about child sexual abuse by members of the Church, the commission will also target abuse by other religious and non religious institutions.
Without a deadline the royal commission being such a wide ranging inquiry could run on for years. However it is better to take time to reach the bottom of what has been, and still is, a shocking blight on our society. One of the most important aspects of the commission must be to examine institutional responses to child abuse.
I am pleased that Tony Abbott said he would support a broad based inquiry and there has been bipartisan support from Liberal State premiers. The response of George Pell leaves me a little cold with “I believe the air should be cleared and the truth uncovered.” Never been known as a ‘champion of the victim’ of his organizations pedophiles, Pell and his cronies could set out to be obstructionist to the inquiry, let us hope not. There has been systemic failure by the church leadership to respond addPedophilequitly to complaints of pedophilia within, hopefully they will not be allowed to hinder the inquiry. Possibly some will have to be dragged kicking and screaming before the commission.

I too am happy to see this long awaited royal commission into paedophilia within churches and institutions. We need to weed out the disgusting perpetrators and their equally abhorrent protectors.

George Pell is apparently 'cooperating' with this enquiry and is happy to see that other institutions are also being taken to account.
While all paedophiles should be treated as lowlife criminals, there is something particularly disgusting about religious based paedophiles in that these churches put themselves out there as our 'moral compass' and as examples of supposedly God-appointed lifestyles.

I am well aware that it is not only the Catholic Church priests involved in paedophilia, as paedophiles will infiltrate any church or organisation where they can have easier access to children . The supposed 'celibacy' of Catholic priests is not a 'cause' of paedophilia, as I am sure this enquiry will show when other Religious paedophiles are flushed out.

I hope there will be no more mercy for these so called 'holy' paedophiles than there is for the paedophiles elsewhere, because they are all dirty little criminals.

“Opposition Leader Tony Abbott also declared his support for a "wide-ranging" royal commission into child sex abuse but said it should not just focus on claims involving the Catholic Church.”

“The Prime Minister said the commission would look at all religious organisations, state care providers, not-for-profit bodies as well as the responses of child service agencies and the police.”

It’s all good but I think the way they keep saying other orgs and all providers etc means they don’t want to appear to be picking on the church. Before even announcing the commission it was being diluted.

I am not a Catholic, not even a Christian, nor do I support the acts of the priests in question, but those bishops and archbishops who were hiding them and destroyed evidence in order to prevent their flock falling into the hands of the secular regime, keeping it all in the family, have done the right thing!

The commission and police will no doubt do what they are paid to do and yet again in history, those bishops will turn into martyrs and saints as they will keep their mouth shut through torture and even while being fed to the lions. That's the Christian spirit anyway and if they will open their mouth and cooperate with secular authorities, then they are not worthy of being called "Christian".

I do hope that the churches handle and punish child-abuse cases internally, but handing in a sinner to the authorities can only be moral if the authority in question is at least two notches morally superior than the sinner: the government being such an immoral body, forcing itself on everyone, everyday, with power-gap greater even than the power-gap between adults and children, cannot claim any morality. The Catholic church, alright, is not the perfect example of morality either, but compared with the state, it is relatively white as an angel.

Just how many red herrings will you people chase.

It would appear our redhead has a whole bucket full of expensive red herrings, [friends no doubt], all set to introduce one each couple of weeks to keep the rabble twittering away, & off the trail of her utter uselessness.

It is amusing I suppose to see how easily the mob are led astray, & distracted.

Labor obviously have a new tactician, with some more effective ploys. They are certainly working so far, but will it last very long. Sooner or later many must wake up to the fact it is all empty promises, [that word again], to be effected after the election.

Don't forget how promises work with the red head. They mean nothing to her, & should mean about the same to you.

Piper, I wonder how many Nuns have seen the priests in question in action? There maybe child molesters right here pretending to be one of the up-standings....The church will now be under the hammer along with all those that has protected this disgusting closed underground community.

Piper, I believe the females in such a tangled web (punt intended) have just as much to answer too, what do you think?

The greens are not happy with religious political influences, which we all know which parties which support them......What is going on?

A newer and more open future is not far away:)

Watch the old very carefully.....

Planet3

Planet3:”Piper, I believe the females in such a tangled web (punt intended) have just as much to answer too, what do you think?”

Yep anyone involved in a cover up or helping protect them but as soon as they started talking about all the other agencies on their list to be investigated it muddied those non-secular waters (punt now needed).

And … if they are going to investigate everyone they might as well throw in other types of abuse and get it all sorted.

Is this about catching individuals or about the systems in place that allowed them to not be caught?

And… Hasbeen ruined my day. Just saying.

Perhaps she could start by looking into the Heiner affair first?

Glad to oblige Piper.

If opening your eyes to a few facts ruins your day, it is about time you had a wake up call.

Anyone who can possibly believe our red head actually cares about kids, these or any others, must have rocks in their head.

Pied Piper I've given some thought to the issue of the scale of the inquiry. I'd dearly love to see our so called child support and family law systems investigated for the role they play in providing financial incentives to fight over children but I keep getting back to the point that expanding it to far could seriously blunt the chances of preventing any future abuse. There are plenty of forms of abuse which are more widespread but we need to start somewher and this seems likema worthy start.

We need to come to grips with all institutionally supported abuse but probably need to do it in chunks that make sense. Its hard for any group to claim they are being unfairly targetted with whats proposed. I've not seen the detail but from what I've heard the focus is not on justice for or against individuals but rather getting to the institutional things that allow abuse to thrive in some settings.

We will probably be stuck with individual abusers for a long time, what we can prevent most of is cultural or legal means for them to continue abusing after the abuse becomes known to anyone other than their victims.

R0bert

Australia's most senior Catholic, Cardinal George Pell, is reportedly deeply ashamed of child sex abuse perpetrated by members of the church but doesn't believe a royal commission is warranted.

The Archbishop of Sydney accepts that children were abused by priests and that the crimes were covered up by other clergy but believes the Catholic church is no worse than other organisations, News Limited reports.

"It wasn't just the Catholic church that hoped (an abusive priest) would amend their conduct and give them a home elsewhere," he told the Weekend Australian.

"Back in those days, they were entitled to think of pedophilia as simply a sin that you would repent of. They didn't realise that in the worst cases it was an addiction, a raging addiction."
Advertisement

The church had rid itself of "a great deal of moral cancer" after abuse claims came to light, he said.

His comments came as NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell announced a special commission to investigate allegations of child sex abuse by Catholic church clergy in the Hunter region.

The commission will be run by prosecutor Margaret Cunneen, SC, and will examine allegations made by a senior serving police officer of child sex abuse at the hands of Catholic priests in the Newcastle area.

It will also look into alleged cover-ups by members of the church and the police force

Hasbeen and Ludwig,
You blokes may recall, Did not Beatie have an inquiry into electoral fraud in Qld some time back? Sheperdson inquiry?

just when it started to get interesting, he suspended it.

If this gets too hot for Julia, she could do the same. Someone once stated, do not call an inquiry unlees you know the outcome!

Hasbeen you just ruined tomorrow for me too.

Hey R0bert, but they’ve chosen to throw everyone else in while looking at the church and just looking at one type of abuse. Although I might be jumping to many conclusions there as I don’t know how this all works and when it is decided what will be investigated.

It works for me in a way; I want them to look at all the NGO Out-of-Home-Care providers because they are set up to allow all abuse to go undetected, unpunished. Ugh I just wish someone would do something and this seems to be something.

They can suspend them Banjo – just tell everyone to stop? That Heiner thing I looked at quickly and what I got from that was everything got shredded as well.

i agree that there may be a new spin meister
clearly she is setting up ..for a radicle question time..outburst..for the youtubers.

anyhow we all know its going to be a lawyer feast
we know if it was really serious..they would pass teason legislation to go along with the seriousness..of the crimes PLUS COLLUDERS*..getting equal time.

more federal govt legislation could make even lawyers acountable for the bagering they will surely do upon the victims..and time limits must apply..institutions also held to account..big time..

with minimum punishments..including loss of tax free status
..as well as back taxes..from the time they colluded*..hit them in the ego..give the colluders equal jail time..

its a maxum in law..that punishment must fit the crime
and just a quick look at the record indicates it dont...

It would be great Hasbeen if just once politics could be left out of things like this.
You know my thoughts on Gillard.
This Royal commission has been needed for a centenary at least.
While the Catholic Church stands out many others will be investigated.
I am truly troubled, that these poor kids suffered so very much,and continue to, at the hands of some who claim to be the moral Anchor for us all.
One child is too many, one suicide too many.
The Catholic Church must let it preachers wed, stop becoming the home for such filth.
And Pell? he will and should! fall for his protection of the scum.
In my revealing faults in my own party, I for years question why SOME protected these sex offenders.
And why SOME SEE EVIL only in those they oppose.
We settle for a lessor world if we do not bring such to account.
Put your self in the place of a victim, before slandering this GREAT OUT COME .

Julia is trying to distract from her own criminality in regards to the AWU.

Will the catholic church be punished for the deaths of hundreds
of thousands of children by starvation because of the anti
contraception stand of the church.

And spreading of HIV by the condom ban.

These people steal my air and my gov taxes me to subsidize them.

Belly, mate, I'd love to leave politics out of such things.

Unfortunately that is all it is. It is just Julia trying to drag another red herring across the path of the next election. She has to fight it on red herrings, she's nothing left.

She can't fight it on her, or Rudd's record.

She can't do anything now, she/they have broken the bank, & there is nothing left to do anything with.

All that is left is empty promises of doing something sometime in the never never, definitely after the election.

How can any one fall, yet again for this lying sods promises.

You've got to say, some people ask for it, & they will definitely deserve it, if they fall for it.

Hasbeen you are far too cynical about the Prime Minister for my liking.
Do you think she personally makes ALL the decisions for all the brown haired, black haired and blond politicians in the Labour Party?
Does that sound like a silly question?
It's about as silly as you constantly referring to our Prime Minister by the colour of her hair.

I admire the current Government for agreeing to hold this Royal Commission at all.
It's almost certain that Abbott and his cohorts would never have started this commission themselves If they were in Government, being as close to the churches as they are.

Of course, they now have to go along with the Government on this because of the outcry of the community if they didn't...

I do agree with Pied Piper though , in that I too smell a rat that suddenly we are having a Royal Commission into every organization that ever involved children, as opposed to starting with one of the most notorious organization for cover-ups... The Catholic Church.
Won't this take simply forever?

amazing how the vile actions of a few priests and BBC presenters make others feel morally superior. Sickening really on all counts. I hope Julia goes as hard at the Pollies. There has been a number in her own party who have been done for the same crimes. The Labour or Liberal party for that matter have done a pretty good job of protecting their own. Logic has it with the promotion of the porn industry, breakdown of the normal family and broken indigenous communities that child molestion is much more common now than ever before. I suppose its easier to go back 40 years than stopping many more from being abused. Its a lot easier than facing the truth of the fruit of porn and the lack of natural fathers.

Oh and Belly, there is nothing to support the notion that allowing priests to marry would stop paedophile priests offending against children.
Like all other paedophiles, they do not find other adults sexually attractive, so what would be the point?
Many paedophiles marry to allow themselves access to stepchildren or even their own children...

While I'm no fan of organised religion generally, I think a Commission is owed not only to those victims who may finally have their voices heard but also to those innocent, decent, hard-working and genuine members of whatever clergies who have been tainted simply by association.

Drag all those guilty ones out into the light and let the rest get on with their lives.

The suggestion that this is just some sort of political distraction is simply appalling and says much about those who like to think in those terms.

Julia Gillard needs to address why she had Michael Smith Sacked from 2UE for asking about her involvement in the AWU fraud of one million dollars stolen from union members.

Julia Gillard also silenced both the Fairfax and Murdoch press from investigating this scandal further.This is not freedom of the press.You would expect this to happen in Zimbabwe or China.

This is Gillard's distraction from her own crimes to make her look like the heroine of integrity.What a farce!

Belly you said:
"This Royal commission has been needed for a centenary at least.
While the Catholic Church stands out many others will be investigated.
I am truly troubled, that these poor kids suffered so very much,and continue to, at the hands of some who claim to be the moral Anchor for us all.
One child is too many, one suicide too many......."

Mate spot on! One of your best posts ever, you mentioned the magic word KIDS, its all about poor little boys and girls who were tormented by these vile animals.
I was sickened to hear Pell wants the police to put out a score card. The ingrate wants it treated as a game, they sodomized 50% more kids than we did. Pell is no better than the scum he seeks to protect.
Pell said he looked forward to statistics showing what percentage of abuse cases the church was responsible for, saying it was not the "principal culprit".

Hasbeen Banjo no joy in putting you in the same basket as arjay.
But I expected better of you two.
Do you blokes under stand?
Do you know the Catholic Church,s history, not just in Pedophilia, for its life time, but in the ALP in this country.
It once owned us.
Is it the awe full self interest? the thought that Tony Abbott, once a DLP/Catholic product is that the reason.
How can I respect men who are not happy a chance exists, that we can end thousands of child rapes, some murders, anbring to justice SOME true filth.
Fellow posters, see HIGHLIGHTED HERE, a willingness to hide any perceived faults that may effect the party of choice.
KNOW those with such views condemn us to bad governments forever.
But too, it is suggestive of this.
The victims have no rights just take it and shut up, less you help one side of politics.
May I be forgiven for stealing this quote.
*Poor Fella My Country!*

“Cardinal Pell said priests should avoid hearing confession from colleagues suspected of committing child sex abuse to avoid being bound by the Seal of Confession.”

What? I thought the whole confession thing was pretty important to Catholics and now they’re saying they can refuse to hear them. What about murder and beating your spouse and stuff, can they just pick and choose the sins they will take in confession? That’s asking for one of those newspaper cartoons with a line of confessionals with signs above stating which sins the particular priest will hear.

I didn’t think it was confession where they got the information, I thought it was victims and police telling them about what happened that was being covered up.

The catholic church is a grubby organization, Pell is not happy.
He seems to think it's too far back to worry about.
Abbott wants the enquiry to take in all organizations. I think there is a reason behind that.
The Catholic Church is a good start.
Does a persons hair colour have any thing to do with the shape of politics, Hasbeen seems to have a private obsession with that, and the pedophile enquiry.

The Catholic Church should be exposed for the evil organization it is. Responsible for the murder of millions, assisting the likes of Nazi killers, abuse of children and others.
I believe there is enough evidence to declare the Catholic Church in Australia a criminal organization, like the Hells Angles. Church property should be confiscated without compensation, sub sects within the organization should be disbanded with the church leadership jailed.
Any person found guilty of clandestinely practicing Catholicism should be subject to a long term of imprisonment.
There is enough evidence to declare the Catholic Church world wide a criminal organization. They operate as a Mafia type organization with Joe ( The Bible Basher) Ratzinger as the 'Godfather'.

I wonder if this investigation will extend to the Labor party, especially given the interference run by NSW to protect Orkopoulos? Bernard Finnigan now facing child porn charges is another potential kiddie fiddler.

Now with fresh corruption allegations against Juliar, Craig Thomson, and the alleged rorting of many millions of dollars by Obied and others in NSW Labor is looking more like organised crime syndicate than a political movement.

it seems to me that many posters are silly enough to believe if you destroy the Catholic church (which would not bother me) that somehow that makes them exempt from facing their Maker one day.

Isn't it interesting that our labour supporters are so desperate to have their belief in the party confirmed, that they are falling over themselves to believe the greatest liar we have ever seen in public life.

Watch out Belly, you'll be a Julia supporter soon, & you have all your previous opinions on record.

No wonder we get such dreadful governments. When people actually want to believe the leopard has changed, despite years of proof to the contrary, we are bound to end up in the deep poo.

On the contrary, Hasbeen, isn't it amazing that a leader finally emerges who has the guts to call a royal commission on the issue of institutional abuse and ongoing cover-ups - and all the usual suspects can do is try and smear it into a partisan political issue.

Let's hope it has teeth.

This Royal Commission is just a rubber stamp.
I will think it is serious when evidence given in a confessional is accepted as evidence in this Royal Commission

It would probably help a lot to cure catholic paedophilia if they did away with the ridiculous law about celibacy.
It is unnatural and no doubt is the cause of a lot of sexual frustration.

RobertLP:” It would probably help a lot to cure catholic paedophilia if they did away with the ridiculous law about celibacy.”

Don’t they have rules about sexually (or otherwise) abusing kids then?

Suse has mentioned it a few times now: “…there is nothing to support the notion that allowing priests to marry would stop paedophile priests offending against children.”

I thought they needed those celibacy laws to keep their illegitimate's from inheriting.

Belly,
Oh yes i am sceptical about Gillard being genuinely concerned for the abused kids. She is a proven liar, her word is not worth spit. She has made promises to the disabled knowing she has no funds to carry them out, and on education again with no funds. She went back on her word relating to the pokies. So yes I am sceptical.

I do have some knowledge about the abuse of kids. I have read the 'Forgotten Australians' report and the Irish report into church abuse, am aware of past abuse cases here and in USA.

Another concern is that the very wide range of the proposed inquiry will mean it will scim over most and not get into the nitty gritty. It is proposed to cover everything, some want it to cover foster kids and NGOs, also some are saying it should also cover FGM of girls. Others are saying about the abuse of aboriginal kids that still occurs. I think to investigate the church abuse and cover ups is more than sufficient for any inquiry.

I remember Beatie suspending the Sheperdson inquiry when it got to close to home and that would not surprise me in this instance, as Gillard has a track record of not keeping her word.

One cannot count on anything this government says as genuine. Rudd made a $6 billion promise about homelessness that was never kept.

When abbott faces up to that female at uni we will see who tells lies or not. The lame horse may never recover, and should be put down.
A Royal commission, will be thorough and fair, there is no reason not to think that would not be the case.

Some, including you Hasbeen seem unable to have rational thoughts.
To think, in defense of this Church, one known for centurys to have power beyond its right.
AT ANY COST is unforgivable.
Is Australia due to this hung Parliament, to become as Ireland has been for centurys, racked by hate England planted to control?
Are we, SOME TRULY LOST OF US, saying the children do not need protection.
See the sad but descriptive SM, yes Labor MPs, mostly Catholics, have committed these sins, should be sent to prison forever for it.
EVERY child sex offender should go with them.
Are there other reasons? why are some not branding this action for what it is, a great step toward ending the terror too many face.
On this issue SOME should be shamed, by nothing more than their own words.

Paul1405 wrote
'I believe there is enough evidence to declare the Catholic Church in Australia a criminal organization, like the Hells Angles'. Geometry villains aside, if he wants to ban the catholic church, surely he would want to ban muslims as they are guilty of wife-beatings, 'honour killing', female genital mutilation and fomenting hatred against the west amongst many more crimes.

"""
On the contrary, Hasbeen, isn't it amazing that a leader finally emerges who has the guts to call a royal commission on the issue of institutional abuse and ongoing cover-ups - and all the usual suspects can do is try and smear it into a partisan political issue.
"""

Yet she won't even investigate her own kind re, The Heiner Affair!
Seems more like a witch hunt to me, one to discredit anyone associated with Catholicism.

"""
Let's hope it has teeth.
"""

Unlikely. As soon as it starts to get close to home, watch them all run for the shredders. They have plenty of teeth for that!

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/accused-molesting-priest-blamed-god/story-e6frg6nf-1226516709160
Find it in your heart to read the link.
To see the boy, now mans fear, and life from that point on.
Find too how you came to think this is about politics.
Tell me my well informed friends.
Do you understand the Liberal Coalition will be in power long before this Royal Commission ends?
Who will sweep what under the carpet?
Austin Powerless your post at least, unless you only meant it to defend the bad part of the Catholic Church, has wisdom in it.
A Muslim may wed and bed a 9 year old, may mutilate females.
And do both in our country despite the law saying they may not.
Hopefully, some one like you, will demand it be part of this inquiry.
But not at the expense of the world wide criminal part of the Catholic Church we know exists.
SOME have questions to answer, why do they fear our country standing at last for the rights of CHILDREN.

"Seems more like a witch hunt to me, one to discredit anyone associated with Catholicism."

Well there you go...the reason we never seem to get anywhere on this subject is that the minute the finger is pointed in one of the myriad directions where institutional abuse has occurred, we hear the same old lament..."It's a witch hunt"...""Others are doin' it too, so why pick on us", etc.

We need transparency in these institutions.

We don't need cynical narratives and partisan political/religious rantings.

I've got to say, this appears to be the best example of political commonsense I've seen in a long time.

Also, bipartisan support shows our country has not lost it's effectiveness after all.

The only real difficulty that I see, it would seem that when an individual is in the confessional, if certain admissions relating to the commission of a crime are made, there's still nothing to oblige a priest to break that oath. And alert police of his knowledge that a crime has, or is, or will be committed ? Neither is a Priest (having heard a confession, in the Confessional) compelled to identify the author of that crime.

I understand that many Catholics, and Priests take that sacred oath very solemnly, and I acknowledge that. That position's not changed for several centuries, eg even in the matter of murder.

Further, it would seem that Cardinal Pell is still of that opinion; the sanctity of the Confessional. A case of what's said in the confessional, stays in the confessional !

Notwithstanding, a Royal Commission enjoys enormous powers of compellability, can anyone honestly see a dedicated Catholic Priest, acting contrary to everything he holds dear and sacred, and break that oath ? Even if he's so directed by a Royal Commissioner ?

Further, could anyone honestly see that Priest ever being gaoled for contempt ? I don't believe so. Not because the Catholic Church possesses this immense power and influence, as it's often been asserted ?

Rather, I don't believe for a moment, a shrewd and sagacious Justice (wearing his or her Royal Commissioner's hat) would ever permit the situation to deteriorate to such a low, it became a notional calamity ! Could you imagine for a moment amongst the Court listings;

In the matter...

'The Scantity of the Confessional Vs C of A Jurisprudence'.

Never !

Belly,
You said,"A Muslim may wed and bed a 9 year old, may mutilate females.
And do both in our country despite the law saying they may not".

As you are well aware, I am aquainted with lots of alien cultural practices here in Aus, including forced marriages. But have not come across marriages of 9 year old girls yet.

Can you find a link or anything that shows 9 year old girls being married here.

Are the clerics an easier target than those in Law ? I wonder why she didn't make a point of hitting all.

Good evening to you BELLY...

I notice in one of your threads you say that a muslim may '...wed and bed a 9 year old...' ?

Are you sure of that my friend ? It's a serious criminal offence for a male person to have sexual relations with a minor, a female of 9 years of age. She's statute barred from giving consent in any event.

Further, you'd need to seek leave from a court for permission to marry a 9 year old female. And I'd be most surprised (irrespective of the circumstances tendered) if permission is ever granted.

I could well be wrong BELLY, as I've been out of the loop for a little while now. However, I'm still fairly sure I'm right ol' friend.

Belly,
I think you may be incorrect about 9 year old girls and marriage here.

You may be confusing the fact that the muslim phrophet Mahommad married a 9 year old girl, or so it is said. That was hundreds of years ago.

The reason i raise this is because if a muslim comes on this site he will cut you down quick if what you say is not correct. There are no muslims posting here at present that I am aware of, but there has been.

"""
Well there you go...the reason we never seem to get anywhere on this subject is that the minute the finger is pointed in one of the myriad directions where institutional abuse has occurred, we hear the same old lament..."It's a witch hunt"...""Others are doin' it too, so why pick on us", etc.
"""

Of course it's a witch hunt . Why else would you refuse to look in your own backyard before canning others?

If you're genuinely concerned about the children and bringing these vile animals to justice, you'll leave no stone unturned, including your own!

But as both the greens and labour refused to look into the Heiner affair where we all know these despicable atrocities occurred and were covered up. We know it's either a witch hunt or a distraction from the criminal mess they're in!

Burn them all I say. The whole steaming pile of them are no good!
bout time we threw a few in the river to see if they float!

Yeah, whatever you say...

The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that no matter how fundamentally sound in an idealistic sense is a RC, I suspect the frame of reference is just too broad to really get to the bottom of anything without its myriad strands of inquiry becoming tangled in a confusing web....nice to think it could make a difference, but, well, who knows?.......

It's interesting (and "revealing"), that sympathy and concern for the victims of pedophilia is severely lacking in this thread. Some people here seem more interested in trying to score political points .... at the expense of the victims. Says everything about the type of society we've become.

NOTE: Cardinal Pell himself was accused in 2002 of pedophilia regarding an alleged sexual incident between he and a 12 year old boy in 1961, whilst Pell was a seminarian. The matter was dealt with internally by the Catholic Church. Pell got off of course. As usual, the character of the alleged victim was attacked. It turns out the alleged victim was subsequently a career criminal after adulthood. Whilst Pell was a powerful Church figure. In the subsequent inquiry, Justice Southwell said, "Bearing in mind the very long delay, some valid criticism of the complainant's credibility, the lack of 'corroborative' evidence, and the sworn denial of Pell, I find I am not satisfied that the complaint has been established".

The complainant obviously had no chance whatsoever.

The Catholic Church is an evasive, secretive, immoral and corrupt organisation, that will defend itself regardless of it's guilt or innocence. Their number one priority is to protect the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church's morality, regarding pedophilia and coverups, has very little in common with the morality of Jesus Christ.

O sung wo, Banjo, during the Muslim riot thread, this subject was mentioned in one of my posts.
It is TRUE a Muslim may wed a 7 year old and CONSUMMATE the wedding at age 9.
Now that truth is unchallenged in their holly book.
I did not post a link,I think, but spoke of a photo I had seen of west bank mass wedding involving about 30 men in their 20,s and these child brides.
I ask you Google Muslim child brides and let this thread continue its path.
But refuse to not target ANY GROUP who treat children thus, Banjo I think the recent case of FGM you spoke of has been dropped.
But know for some, our laws are no barrier to continuing practices we deplore.
Let us not turn this thread from its just direction.
Both sides of politics now support this RC it will take well in to years not months to complete.
Read gee it is not hard, Google the IRISH RC read the words too of the Prime Minister of that country after the Catholic Church was investigated.
We are better far better than some, who see only politics here.
o sung wo can if he wishes tell of lives ruined by sexual offenses against kids.
I from my days as CHRISTIAN assure you this evil is not from the God I followed.
In taking a side we cover for the filth or we care for the victims.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200555/The-British-child-brides-Muslim-mosque-leaders-agree-marry-girl-12--long-parents-dont-tell-anyone.html
This link is not proof of my statement.
First one I found.
It however demands to be read and is not challenged it took place.
Let us however not divert the thread.
This question I must ask, why do we not research our views and thoughts before saying things?
I will find and post my mentioned link then return to subject.

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/mass-muslim-marriage.shtml
Did not take long did it?
My turn to eat humble pie.
I fell for a fraud.
This was the third site on a long list
I could have hidden my getting it wrong but that is the weak mans way.
For first time Googlers this is not rare some put junk up just trust the better links.
And before discounting my view.
Read some of the thousands of links we do have problems other than one church.

Belly,
Good work, I was concerned because I had not heard of it here. I had see the photo you refered to but I am more interested in what happens here, so did not follow up on it.

The Daily Mail article is interesting but it does not enjoy a good reputation for accuracy, but worth keeping in mind.

Given that we have some radical Imans here, nothing would surprize me.

As for the prosecution of the FGM case, there are now 8 persons charged in NSW and it is due to come up in February. Another case is to come up in WA, alledging the parents took their baby to Indonesia for FGM.

We do not appear to have any records on forced marriages here, yet no doubt it occurs and not only in Muslim cultures. Family presure would stop most girls from going to authorities. The only instance I can find is where some girls were sent back to 'the old country' for holiday and on arrival they found they were expected to marry someone there. They sought help from Australian embassey there. That was some years ago. Forced marriage is kept very quiet.

All of which leads us back to situations such as this, which is why the RC has been set up.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-14/lawyer-claims-church-fails-to-comply-with-abuse-protocols/4372512

The situation where protocols have been set in place, yet are beset with non-compliance goes to the heart of the problem.

Pell is running a smoke screen. The Catholic Churches Towards Healing protocols are a blind to fool people that they are serious about the issue. In fact all Pell and his church cronies want to do is protect the so called 'good name of the church' since when did the Catholic Church have a good name? When they were burning innocent people at the stake, maybe it was when they were protecting Nazi war criminals or could it be while they hide their sodomites. Members of the Catholic Church most likely have been buggering children since the day Peter was put in charge.
And we let these people run schools and other organizations where there are children around. PLEASE!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/ireland-inquiry-exposed-horrors/story-fndo317g-1226516942019
Banjo we will need a separate thread to talk in full about this.
The link is from ONE part of Ireland.
It speaks for its self, 21 priests 100 rapes.
In the Catholic Church, now not singling them out.
But it is that Church that forbids marriage, invites a strange breed of men and women .
Insult?
Who will tell me the sex drive is not the most basic and FIRST driving force in our lives?
Read the full Irish story, try the dutch one, know please see, it is CHURCHES, EVERY ONE OF THEM!
That told us sex was evil, that took a beautiful thing and made it dirty.
Child sex always any time will be evil, forced sex too.
We cover for authority, first and foremost Churches, many a child victim has been flogged for telling the truth.
Many a nonhuman has walked free, these days any one in authority, because SOME OF US COVER FOR THEM.
See my much loved ALP its recent history in NSW see the unthinking attacks on Gillard, for doing what any of us worth knowing would do.
IF we let our biases rule then we settle for less.
We can fix this and any problem if we put out come ahead of self.

Frankly, man is rather a self-defeating entity in some ways. He is capable of great intelligence and great manipulation. He is most competent at setting up institutions supposedly resting on a bedrock of moral, ethical and so-called "spiritual" pretexts...yet he is the most highly sexed of the primates.

Methinks there exists a fundamental incongruity between his ethical aspirations and his carnal reality.

Belly,
One of the reasons I am cynical about the proposed RC is that it seems to be going too wide. I really think there is sufficient for a RC in just abuse of kids under churches control and not just catholic church. Was not Hollingsworth forced to resign as GG because of his bad handling of abuse allegations?

I believe such a RC would be the same as the inquiry in Ireland, just on a smaller scale.

Certainly I am not discounting the need for other inquiries/RC into other instances of child abuse, sexual or other, but the churches one seems to be the most pressing. Problem is that some overlap as seen in the 'Forgotten Australians' inquiry where institutions were run by churches, the government and NGOs.

We will see what happens when guidelines are set for this RC

G'day BELLY 'my Man'...

Look I'm sorry, for again jumping the gun ! In my previous post I had my 'Detective's hat on' and I was of the mistaken belief you're quoting some legal precedent permitting such a unnatural union. If true, it would've been an abuse of law.

Indeed, BELLY, I could cite several cases of abuse of children by men (I feel so ashamed to be a man sometimes, I really do) !

I will not detail specifics, as I don't believe I have that right.

Regrettably, I've known police who turn the other way, upon receiving a complaint of child abuse. These (very few) coppers often nominate the easy way out, by invoking that quaint little mnemonic...F I D O ? A saying amongst police who don't wish to take any action, for whatever reason. Could that official inertia ever be construed as 'dereliction' of duty ? In some cases yes, in others, no.

Have I ever been culpable of failure to do my duty ? Every single man or women who's ever worn 'blue' has, and will continue to do so. But, in these repugnant crimes, most would never entertain such a thought.

Awhile back, I was made aware of a most evocative piece, particularly relevent to - the police; the Church; Schools; in fact any of those in authority, when confronted with something, that's clearly within their aegis, choose to do nothing ? And my greatest criticism of all, is reserved exclusively for our Judiciary per se.

They came for the Communist,
and I didn't object -
For I wasn't a communist;

They came for the Socialist,
and I didn't object -
For I wasn't a Socialist;

They came for the Labour Leader,
and I didn't object -
For I wasn't a Labour Leader;

They came for the Jew,
and I didn't object -
For I wasn't a Jew;

Then they came for me,
And there was no one left to object.

I dunno BELLY and BANJO, it sure hits it for me, what do you blokes think ?

Cheers...Sung Wu.

o sung wu,
There is an organization specifically set up to help the victims of church sexual abuse. I cannot recall what it is called right now, but they would be a source of good reliable information.

If I think of it I will post it and maybe they will get a run in the media soon as this is right up their alley. Could be Broken Rights or Broken Rites, worth a try?

O sung wo as it is with Banjo I enjoy your company here.
Not sure Banjo that group is Church based, it may be.
Poirot has it down to pat, but we must not let that become an excuse.
I know my words ruffle feathers, even in my own camp.
But think with me, it is my view this RC is as important as any we ever had.
And for the same reason I hang my ALP out to dry.
You can not rebuild on rubble.
First clean the site, remove all rubbish.
Then with conviction it will never be allowed to take place again, build new better and forever.
IF the RC had only been Catholic? it would have been seen as a witch hunt.
It will, in the end, open our eyes, MAKE GROWN MEN CRY, AND STILL IN PART BE WHITE WASHED.
nothing is ever completed,I have given evidence for police only to see an Irish judge find a guilty Irish offender not guilty, to the dismay of 5 she almost killed.
The Catholic Church needs this inquiry, you may ask why.
Well in truth its numbers are shrinking, its direction, in no sex , is causing damage.
Only6 the Muslim faith is not shrinking.
A renewed Church free not only of child sex offenders but the rampart corruption may grow again, let it too be free of Pell.

For once I agree with Poirot. As with safety legislation, one not only has to put rules in place, but must show evidence of enforcement. Pell has overseen the first part, but not the second.

When my kids were only 5, their primary school took them through "sex education" classes. This was not the birds and the bees, but an education of what was private, and what should result in instant reporting to a parent, teacher or other authority. This does not spoil their innocence, but equips them to deal with any inappropriate behaviour before it gets out of hand.

Similarly I believe that it should be a legal requirement to report abuse to the authorities, and that failure to do so should be prosecuted as obstruction of justice.

SOME not all of the original thoughts the whole thing is a Gillard plot has gone in to hiding.
We are better for that.
It will be long in to the first, maybe second term of the next Government before we see the final results.
We are not alone in running this inquiry.
The world has done so, or will.
While much more wide ranging than the Catholic Church, few can say with certainty they are not the center of this concern.
For increasing numbers this thought can not be avoided.
Are we right in giving special rights to religions increasing numbers believe have no true God no basis in fact to judge other than those they protect.

http://cathnews.acu.edu.au/207/174.php
Sydney's Archbishop George Pell told pilgrims at World Youth Day in Toronto "abortion is a worse moral scandal than priests sexually abusing young people".
During a catechesis session before a group of 500 young people, Pell was asked by a youth minister from Kentucky what Catholics should say when asked about the sex abuse crisis in the US Catholic church.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Is this how they think and what they teach? Sexual abuse of a young person is considered a "moral scandal"?

TPP well put but Pell seems to be hiding some thing in his own past.
He will not face the courts but not survive this inquiry.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/catholic-churchs-secret-sex-files-20121116-29hkb.html
And some say we do not need this inquiry?
Suffer the little Children.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/independents-day--again-20121116-29heq.html
Well we have made our choice.
Enough said about our children.
The link is outstanding.
It highlights rather than a Gillard move to protect, like much she does it was forced on her, by public opinion.
A hung Parliament is a stalled one,at least this close to an election.
No matter what the concerns, a need not to make mistakes over rules doing the right thing.
As this inquiry progresses, let us hope it is not a whitewash,that heads roll and prison doors slam.

One thing that has to be dealt with is the so called 'sanctity of the Catholic confessional' Archy Pell Australia's number one pedophile hider said "if a priest heard the confession of a fellow priest detailing child abuse then it was inviolate, meaning there was no obligation to report the crime." The old Catholic belief, say 3 Hail Mary's and all is forgiven.
When I attended Catholic School in the 1960's, Friday confession was mandatory. It was not uncommon that after you had fed "Father" a bit of BS about what evilness you had been up to for the pass week, he would ask is there anything else? "No Father"....."No impure thoughts... or actions?" The old grub wanted to known if you had been jerking the gherkin while dreaming about that stunner Susy the Floozy for the convent school next door. I'm sure the old grub has his hand on it, ready for action if you had something to fire him up with.

Apart from the huge financial windfall for the lawyers involved in this mess who is going to pay for the deposition taking and the evidence gathering ?
I had a bit to do with both Fitzgerald royal commissions as an investigator and protector and I can assure you all that this is the biggest legal goldmine and landmine ever to hit the Australian landscape.
This is not to say we shouldn't have it but I do think that the offenders should be made to cover the costs even if it financially destroys them.
Now having said that I believe they are going to have to have at least 7 Royal Commissioners (1 in each state) just the hear the issues which I think , based on past experience3, will take a couple of years in each state.
For those perpetrators that are still alive there will not be enough prisons to incarcerate them all and again there is the cost.
Wow what a nightmare? Wouldn't miss it for all the "tea in China"
Or is Gillard simply clearing the stages for an election based on her perceived empathy?

Welcome but are you sure you want to both support the inquiry, make a great suggestion about costs.
Then take a weak shot at Gillard?
This morning a poll says 95% of us support the whole thing.
What are the reasons the other 5% do not?
Well what percentage are in fact offenders.
Hopefully not that number.
Overnight two more children, not Church related, and over the weekend two Church men charged.
As a result of publicity? hopefully.
GILLARD is in my view a rabbit, but let us confine our criticisms to truth.
American Republicans, Tea Party Nazi,s learned a big lesson about twisting truth.

Belly,
The conservatives never have a problem finding billions to wage war on the third world. However when it comes to something like this royal commission they will start bleating about costs. In my view this is one of Labors best. If Abbott had been in office to do think Archy Pell would have given his Mad Monk the go ahead for this, not a snowflakes chance in hell. Did I use Pell and Hell in the same sentence, now there's a combo.

Paul,

Do you just make things up as you go along?

Firstly, Juliar was forced into this royal commission after the newspaper headlines, and the call from Tony Abbott and the coalition for a Royal commission. So your BS about Abbott letting this go by the wayside is a blatant lie.

Secondly, if "In my view this is one of Labor's best." then we have a good measure of green's standards. In Paul Kelly's words this is the first time in history a RC has been announced by the PM when the PM clearly knew little to nothing about the issues.

This is half RSed action rushed out by labor in response to political pressure. Labor clearly had no idea of the terms of reference, or even that without the cooperation of the states, the RC would be constitutionally invalid. That child protection and policing are both state issues leaves the federal government without a mandate, and seems to have escaped labor's tiny brains.

SM,
In answer to your question:
Do you (Paul 1405) just make things up as you go along? NO!
p/s I phone my friend Lee first and she makes things up for me. Not true but it should make you happy. NEXT!

What about the Liberal Parties answer to Fatty Arbbuckle, that conservative leading light Alexander Downer with this "Of course, it sounds like a good idea (Royal Commision)" But, there is always a BUT
"Sure, there have been pedophiles in the Catholic Church....a pedophile in a public school's out-of-school-hours care. And I know of an Anglican church in SA where sexual abuse of children occurred."...."So let's just cut out the trashing of the whole of the Catholic Church."
Is Downer an appoligiest for the Catholic Church, trying to deflect blaim, or is he trying to do some political point scoring to take over the Liberal leadership in SA, or both?

Paul,

If you didn't just make it up as you went along, then you deliberately lied.

Next that "conservative leading light Alexander Downer" Who is no longer involved in politics other than the occasional commentary, did not try apologise for the Catholic church or deflect attention. He agreed with the RC, but stated that there have been child abuse cases in other institutions as well such as the Anglican church and state care. To single one out would be both unfair and missing the point.

I noted earlier that this included the Labor party of NSW that tried to cover up for Orkopoulos and punished the whistle blower, amongst others.

I believe that marriage was banned for Catholic priests after the 13th century. Forum members may be able to shed a little light on this? I think before the 13th century even the Popes had wives or concubines but the church stopped priests marrying to preserve the churches wealth and prevent priests passing personal wealth to family on their death.
It seems ironic that the Catholic Church may now have some of its wealth eroded by claims against the church for paedophilia and other predatory sexual behaviour by priests.
I think it is time for the Catholic Church to become a little more flexible and allow priests to marry also the time has come for women to be trained and accepted as priests. We need to throw off the similar medieval shackles that have locked Islam into such a backward time warp.

No doubt the professed atheist Ms Gillard would be more likely to support this Royal commission than the bible thumping monk. and I am a liberal voter.
As for having its wealth eroded, Do you not realise that any payments for wayward priests are added to the cost of running the school and us taxpayers end up paying for it? Rome still wants its tribute.

This issue is too important to be side track by politics.
Paul I came to the thread full of genuinely felt annoyance at the claims made about Gillard, they had no roll to play in this issue.
Not getting soft, but truth has value, a few posts above shadow ministers one to you, I posted a link.
It confirms his words, Gillard was pushed.
Get rid of the attitude, the angry ant syndrome, it hurts your side more than it helps.
It resembles Abbottism.

Paul this is the point I tried to make to you.
You seem to have a splinter under your saddle as a result of forecasts about your team come true.
It will not work, throwing Le Reanion at anyone, she mate in the eyes of most nearly all Australians, and you can bet Bob Brown, is a red under any bed
The lady is as useless in winning over others as a 5 day old road kill Elephant on a hot summer day.