WmTrevor,

Yes!

Of course, our society is encouraged to look at parenthood in that manner. One almost has to excuse themselves these days if they choose to stay at home and look after the tots. If Mrs A pays Mrs B to look after her infants then GDP rises. If Mrs A chooses to look after her own children, GDP is not affected.

Houellie,

I think you taking on the mantle of "mother" although you are male is instructive - that you are equally knowledgeable of your situation with young children as your partner (does she wish to be known as "father"?).

Bottom line is that there aren't too many on this forum with very young children - you are one of the few.

Well there aren't too many on this forum under 50 Poirot. I've always liked talking to oldies though.

'One almost has to excuse themselves these days if they choose to stay at home and look after the tots.'

It's a minefield. For a start Poirot, you aren't 'socialising' them. Secondly, you're letting the sisterhood down, or else you're a victim of The Patriarchy. Thirdly, you're harming the economy, as you say, which lets face it is the biggest crime one can be accused of, since the economy is our god. You are also an evil misogynist like Tony Abbott if you dare to have the woman in the home, and the man the provider.

How you live with yourself with all that I'll never know Poirot.

On the other hand my partner and I are neglecting our children for 2 days a week for our own selfish ends. Those ends being keeping my partner with a foot in the workforce and enabling a more comfortable lifestyle, with luxuries like showing off the kids to grandparents in my partners home country.

But as Trev rightly says, it's quite hilarious this idea of crying about child care.

Like I keep saying, there are so many options on how to live, and I can handle people making justifications like I have just made above, it's when people say they are just victims of circumstance it riles me up. Like moving to trendy inner city areas with no parks or childcare centres and complaining there are is no 'Childcare options, availability, accessibility'.

The government must do something!

It's my Human Right!

It's an Equality issue!

Nope. It's just families making choices for what best suits them.

It's an interesting discussion, and I'm going to embarrass myself, once again, by thinking this through as I type...

' Mrs A pays Mrs B to look after her infants then GDP rises. If Mrs A chooses to look after her own children, GDP is not affected.'

Lets quickly change that to Parent A pays Worker B... Cant upset the feminists.

So,

Case 1

PA earns $100k, WB gets paid what? $40k /4 = $10k (4 children to carer ratio) to look after child, PA pays say $30k Tax, and WB pays $5k tax and government gives PA $7500, Child care company gets $25k in fees from PA.

Case 2

PA earns $0, PA Pays $0 Tax, WB gets paid $30k (pro rata child care workers, or split them with chainsaw in Torrentino style) WB pays $3k tax and government pays $0 to PA, Child care company gets $0k in fees.

I'm no economist obviously, and there is company tax and all sorts of other variables but you have to draw a line somewhere. Not to mention the skills worker 2 being maintained, the profit of their employer, etc etc

Case 2 has a lot less churn for mine. There must be a lot of waste administering this round-a-bout. You could have the young, single energetic child care worker employed better and a parent with their own kids, and lose a government department!

All swings and roundabouts, that was a bit of dead end and waste of space but it's cup day, and I'm not looking to think today after all, more looking forward to my voyeurism via the misogynist media making Cup day about the sluttish drunken behavior of the young victim women at the races and the evil predatory men! Hahha! Misogyny! The word of 2012!

Hmmm. A drinking game entailing sculling whenever someone says 'The race that stops a nation'?

Shouldn't that be "The race that 'slops' a nation"?

Isn't there a push for after hours child care, as well.

Even as a late starter, I don't have kids in child care, but I have 2 of my kids that do.

One is brilliant, high income earner, & works from home. She walks the 6 year old to & from school, & has them after school. She often has to work from 8.00PM to 11.00PM to pay for this indulgence, & occasionally has to call in after school care when very busy.

Child care is readily available, but her husband drives 20Km to a preferred supplier with the 3 year old.

She recently refused a 14 day trip to Thailand with her mother, she'd miss her kids too much.

Youngest one with one child, works full time, with plenty of child care available. Complains how expensive child care is in Darwin.

She would like another, but can't afford to give up work, & reckons child care for 2, & on costs, would take almost all her after tax income, so not on.

She leaped at a trip to Thailand with her mum. Damn good thing too, or I'd have had to go, & I can't stand being a tourist, living out of a suit case.

I reckon it is about time we turned the clock back, & told people to have their kids, & pay for them themselves.