Banjo first this mornings polls.
Let my fellow travelers not yet celebrate.
They mark the end of Abbottism.
We surely knew this day would come oppose every thing question every policy even if we agree with it.
Do not let truth be a reason not to complain,about anything.
Scream stop the boats,but oppose ANYTHING that may bring that about.
In the polls we see not the rise of Labor but the fall of Abbott.
Gillard, confronted by her past including axing Rudd, but much more Turnbull is unelectable.
Banjo more criticism to let out but reform?
Let no power broker control voting blocks,seats reserved for union to be representative of party numbers as a whole no domination.

National membership on line conferences to set new policy,s.
Open membership voting for all on major issues.
Tax reform policy speeded up.
National debates open to every Australian on policy,s for the future
Openness for all parliamentarians , what they own ,crimes the whole thing, prison terms for criminal acts while in Parliament.
Yours Banjo?

Belly,
I do not have any suggestions to improve the workings of the ALP or the Liberals. It is your members party and, no doubt, you know how your party works better than me. However if currently the party gives voting advantage to unions, or any other group, it is open for manipulation and back room deals. All party members should have the same voting rights. I do know that far more politicing goes on within parties than between parties. Internal politics can be very savage.

I was simply curious as to what specific reforms you were thinking about. Reducing power to groups can be very difficult.

Banjo power brokers are in every party, Currently in NSW the right, some times hard right, run the Liberals.
Mostly they are counter productive.
I have over reached, constantly asking for a Liberal, may be more than one, to express the wrongs of their party.
Clearly no such balanced person can be found here.
Or no problems exist in that party.
Accountability still is a requirement for me.
We are not short however off screamers who throw mud at every move Labor makes.
Quite willing to put down every Labor voter, therefore half this country,s population.
I hold my views strongly, it had to come, Abbottism has failed, enough know he opposes every thing,it is planned, he stops the solution to the boats, yet if in power, his party may need to use Malaysia, what other way exists?
He will go, Turnbull return,soon, Kevin Rudd may well say no to a beating to nothing.
This country is weary and trusts no politician.
Under mined by my sides heedless fools, the Sussex street vandal who made room for Carr, then when to Packers Casino?
Abbottism, cry Wolf worked for a time, but it is over, so is he.
Gillard did not rise Negative man fell.
Hard to get a discussion other than slaging off the left going here of late.

Belly you started this thread and named it ALP Faceless Men Unmasked.

Now you want to go off subject and speak about Abbott, why don't you remain on your suject. I agree that both major parties have groups that lean one way or the other, but you have indicated that union reps have an unfair advantage over ordinary members.

In most organizations I have been associated with Branches elect their office bearers and their delegates to state or federal conference. Once the conference agenda is available, the branches either direct their delegates on certain issues or let them vote as they see it. If the ALP has given unions voting advantage over members that is what your party has to sort out.

As for slagging off about Labor. I make no bones about naming the present mob as the worst government in Aus history and will do all I can to get them removed. The reality is that the alternative is Liberals so if I want Labor removed, I am not about to critisise the Liberals at this point. If they make blunders and stuff ups after being elected, that will be a different situation.

Labor has made so many stuff ups and blunders, they thoughly deserve to be slagged. How many of the 50 Labor stuff ups can you really find to be incorrect. I can post the list again now if you want to be reminded. I have no doubt the Libs wil stop the boats from coming and i do not believe they need Malaysia to do it, as I have said many times, simply do not give the shonks what they seek.

Banjo while I hope we can continue to be mates, you time and again, QUESTION ME, FOR DOING JUST WHAT YOU DO HERE.
Abbott is no less a target than is this government or Gillard.
At this point I should say surely you understand that.
It however would be pointless, you do not.
He however, believe it, is gone, only extraordinary circumstances bought him to leadership.
There lays the problem, Liberals, Conservatives,SOME ONLY but too many, hide an inner bitterness against half of this country, slaging off Labor and those who vote for them.
Wanting the freedom to do that, to my side,but squeal if it is their side targeted.
I target the wrongs in my side here and in numbers of threads, yet not one, a single Liberal poster,has found reason to talk of the faults on their side.
Labor needs more Belly,s more who love and trust the party, who openly demand no more NSW filth, no more knifing a first term prime minister.
No more appointing such as Gillard who held the knife.
No more power mad power brokers.
Banjo my party and unions does that just as you said, not unusual for you ,you miss understand my complaint.
50% of seats at conference, Delegates, those who can get in and vote, are reserved for unions.
Distributed on the basis of that unions membership/donations to party it was 60%.
Union heads pick the weekend vote holders who vote as told.
After Rudd,s knifing, if we had the numbers, we would see big numbers in parliament are ex union heads.
A party rewarding them and demanding women get 40% of seats,is not democratic.
Only the best should serve/be picked if that makes it all woman or man ok by me.

Belly,
I expect you to be critical of Abbott and the Libs, being an ALP member, but you chose the tittle of this thread which is -ALP Faceless Men Unmasked. You are going off topic. Abbott has nothing to do with ALP party matters.

I am critical of Labor because this government is deserving of serious critisism. I do not see the Liberal supporters here squealing, as you put it, because you critisise Abbott, but it is reasonable they make corrections and counter arguement.

You certainly do make critisisms of some aspects of the ALP, but that is your choice. You say not one Liberal supporter airs any wrong doing of their side. Perhaps they are better at keeping their family differences 'in house'. Perhaps if they are unhappy with another member or leader, or some proceedual party matter, they settle it within the party. If I were a member, that is what I would do. No point in giving the opponants free kicks. Airing ones dirty laundry in public is best avoided.

Whether it be Labor or Liberal, the parliamentry members cannot do that. If a challenge to leadership is to be made it must be kept quiet untill the time and this may come as a shock to those outside the parliament. Remember the media speculation about Howard and Costello and Hawke and Keating. See Rainiers thread.

As far as seat nominations go, I agree with you, the best should be selected irrespective of gender, union or faction affiliation. Those that are smart do that, not to do so is handicapping the party they belong to.